Do Africans and African Americans get along??

[PhDiva]

I think there are definite cultural differences which factor into the relationships between Africans and African Americans such as different religions, protocol for interacting with elders and different expectations for men and women and children. Neither group is better or worse than the other b/c we are all victims of a divide and conquer strategy to keep oppressed people from building alliances and rising up against our oppressors.

I think that the problems ladygreek is referring to in MN and other parts of the Midwest is a result of the refugee relocation agreement the U.S. has with Somalia. There was a relocation package for Vietnamese immigrants as well. Instead of creating relocation packages based on newer sources of funding, the fed and state gov't often take money from existing gov't sponsored programs, usually those ear-marked for the poor and/or those living in urban areas. These packages include full welfare and Medi-care benefits, reduced college tuition, work visas and section 8 housing.

What this does, however, is pit other minority and/or improverished groups against one another for scarce resources. Furthermore, several states agree to these packages at the insistence of local businesses who want to undercut native-born workers who might be asking for too much in wages and benefits. In California, a similar trend occurred with the Mexicans during WWII with the bracero program which was designed to bring Mexican agricultural workers to the state to work crops while native born American workers were serving in the war and those that remained demanded higher wages and better working conditions. The Bracero program opened the door for a surge in legal and illegal immigration and Mexicans moved into areas that were affordable which put them into direct contact with Black folks. So now you have 2 groups fighting from crumbs, there is bound to be conflict.

I think a large part of the problem between Africans and African Americans is due to this pitting oppressed groups against one another by making life in urban, improverished areas so unbearable that people lash out at those groups who are "different". This is a result of slavery in the U.S. and colonization in Africa - we're playing right into the oppressors' hand when we target one another.

I recall about a year ago, I went out with a Black guy (African American) who asked me if I would ever date an African.
Me: "Sure, why not?".
Him: "You must not like yourself then!"
Me: "Excuse me?"
Him: "Those people are not like us."
Me: "You know you descended from THOSE people."
Him: "Not me. I'm more American than African"
Me: "Ask a white person if they see your American-ness more than your African identity. By the way, you know this is our first and only date!"
Him: "Suit yourself. If you want to mix yourself up with them, that's your perogative"
Me: "I know...I'd rather "mix myself up with them" than entertain an f#$%ing moron!!"

Sometimes all I can do is shake my head and pray God delivers us from our own psychosis

PhDiva

[christiangirl]

Well, my friend spent a semester in Kenya and she said over there they love Black Americans. She said they watch more BET than we do. I'm sure that's just one perspective, because I've seen other things out there. I'd like to visit Africa and find out myself one day.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by christiangirl
Well, my friend spent a semester in Kenya and she said over there they love Black Americans. She said they watch more BET than we do. I'm sure that's just one perspective, because I've seen other things out there. I'd like to visit Africa and find out myself one day.

OMG, I hope the Kenyans aren't basing their love of Black Americans on BET. LOL

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by PhDiva

I think that the problems ladygreek is referring to in MN and other parts of the Midwest is a result of the refugee relocation agreement the U.S. has with Somalia. There was a relocation package for Vietnamese immigrants as well. Instead of creating relocation packages based on newer sources of funding, the fed and state gov't often take money from existing gov't sponsored programs, usually those ear-marked for the poor and/or those living in urban areas. These packages include full welfare and Medi-care benefits, reduced college tuition, work visas and section 8 housing.


PhDiva

Just to be clear I am talking about private funding as well--foundations and corporate giving funds. The main reason seems to be that the results are easily seen early-on. Versus the amount of long-term funding needed in the American-born community to combat the vestiges of decades of racism.

Also let me state, that I did not become disenchanted with Somali immigrants until I personally and my staff were looked down upon, ignored, and treated rudely many times by the participants in my (Black) workplace's Somali program. It has nothing to do with feeding in to the oppressor. It has to do with stanky attitudes of we are better than you.

Also it is ironic that you mentioned the Vietnam refugees, because we have among the highest percentage of them here, too. (MN is a very liberal state in welcoming immigrants.) Once considered the ideal immigrant groups, they are the ones now perpetuating violence. And Southeast Asian gangs are no joke. The turmoil between and among clans--Hmong, Cambodian, Vietnamese, etc. is astounding. And the same thing is beginning to happen with the Somali clans.

[luvtoscrap]

Ladies please forgive me forbudding into your forum.

A worked with a man from South Africa for about ten years that explained to me that his reason for not associating with African-Americans had really nothing to do with being lumped together with the negative stereotypes found here and overseas. Rather he was simply reacting simply to the fact that he did not understand African-American culture. Because it was so different from his own culture, it was hard for him to find a common cultural ground. He did get married to an African-American here in the States has has since told me they have worked through any cultural differences.

I have also worked with several Somalis here on student visas. Each student would classify himself as being arab since Arabic was their native language. One student went so far as pulling out his university papers to show me that he was "white" since he was from the Middle East (North Africa).

[BlueReign]

Please be mindful that the continent of Africa is very, very diverse.

The only negative interactions with Africans I have ever had are from Nigerians. I worked with a Nigerian girl 10 years ago and after training her incompetent dumb ass she had nothing but negative things to say about me and other African Americans to whoever would listen. I was very surprised at her prejudices toward us. Since then I have noticed that many Nigerians act the same way. (mainly cab drivers!!)

On the other hand, I have a friend and hair-braider from Sierra Leone who was the sweetest and kindest person to ever put hands in my hair.

In addition, my children's first day care provider is my neighbor and very good friend. She is from Ghana. I would do anything for her. She has been like a mother to them and I trust her any day!

[ladygreek]

@ luvtoscrap,
All are welcomed here, well except Rudey, RA Cooper, Tom Earp (just kidding, guys.)

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by BlueReign
Please be mindful that the continent of Africa is very, very diverse.

Exactly! Just like all the continents. The French are very different from the Germans although they are all Europeans.

[Jells]

There are going to be rude people no matter who it is, but as white people are soooo used to doing, we tag that stigma to a whole class of people because we do not understand them. Not that this is always the case, but I have noticed that (of any groups), people tend to attribute positive experiences to an individual and negative experiences to the whole group. Where do we draw the line between someone truly being a biatch/ass/ racist and an attitude shared by a culture?

If there is a divide and conquer strategy and we KNOW that the government is setting us up for conflict, we do we still have an issue? One would believe that recognizing and admitting the problem is the first step in solving it...well, we've recogized the problem and the main reason why...why stop there? What can we now DO about it??

As far as the cab drivers are concerned, I have found EVERY cab driver I have met, be them Nigerian, Indian, Arab, white, etc to be rude. That seems part of the business, does it not?? Get em in, get em out, and get paid...

But then again, I only take cabs when in New York, and all New York people are inconsiderate and rude.... JUST KIDDING!!! I love you all!!! (not really, but some of ya'll)

[christiangirl]

Now see, I've taken cabs in CA, NV, GA, and LA. And it wasn't until my visit to ATL that I got the rudeness. But, that's the only time I've taken a cab by myself...an unarmed young woman with nobody to stick up for her, I'm sure he probably felt like he could be rude and get away with it. So is it just that all cab drivers are rude or that it's only drivers in certain areas and are you alone and female?

There are so many mitigating circumstances that go along with prejudices. Like how a lot of Southern blacks (in certain areas) hole an "all white people are out to get us" mentality, but as a Californian, I've dealt with a miniscule amount of racism in my life. But is it just in my area b/c where I live is completely different from say, Oakland, LA, Sacramento, Diego, etc. So can you say my experience is along the lines of the majority of white people or are my southern friends'? Can my friend who went to Kenya say she's right, or can those who've heard more negative things? Because of the diversity in African cultures (and US cultures, and cab driver cultures) it's absolutely impossible to have just one label.

[PhDiva]

It has nothing to do with feeding in to the oppressor. It has to do with stanky attitudes of we are better than you.

ladygreek,

No doubt...I agree with you but I want to understand where many of these stank attitudes emanate from. Does that excuse the behavior? Of course not, but I can definitely respond differently when I understand some of the reasons behind the funky behavior.

Let me give you an example. Years ago, while in undergrad, I took a couse called "Black Women in America" and this particular semester, a guy from Japan enrolled in the class. It wasn't unusual for American-born Asians, Whites, Hispanics to enroll but one day I was just curious as to why this guy who could barely speak English would enroll in this course. So the professor who obviously had the same question asked him, "why did you enroll in this course?".

He said, "I wanted to see if the picture books I got from the U.S. Embassay were true." We all asked what picture books and he proceeded to pull out "Guides to Dealing with Black Folks" courtesy of the U.S. government. In the picture books were caricatures of Black women who had 8 breasts and a baby suckling on each one with a caption along the line of "watch out for the welfare queen!!" and other derogatory stereotypes like that. To say we were shocked and angry was an understatement

The Japanese guy also told us that his Korean friend had a similar book that portrayed Black folks as violent thugs trying to steal from Korean owned stores. The Korean "Guide to Business Ownership in Black Communities" was also published by the U.S. department of tourism and commerce. And it was like a lightbulb went off in our heads b/c we all at once started to get some clue as to why the interactions between Asians (particularly foreign born Asians) and Blacks has always been tense. The U.S. government was mass producing derogatory images of Black folks abroad and those folks were interacting with Blacks based on false information.

So my point is that yes, their attitudes might be stank. They may think their boo-boo don't stink but alot of those superior beliefs are fed by our government. So I try to temper my response to their silliness with questions like "what makes you think white Americans don't think the same way about you?" or "does being rude over cab fare get you any closer to getting out of poverty?"...Then too, it might be the teacher in me that prefers to take turn things like this into teachable moments so I can prevent someone getting an unnecessary beat-down

PhDiva

[RACooper]

Originally posted by PhDiva
"I wanted to see if the picture books I got from the U.S. Embassay were true." We all asked what picture books and he proceeded to pull out "Guides to Dealing with Black Folks" courtesy of the U.S. government. In the picture books were caricatures of Black women who had 8 breasts and a baby suckling on each one with a caption along the line of "watch out for the welfare queen!!" and other derogatory stereotypes like that. To say we were shocked and angry was an understatement

The Japanese guy also told us that his Korean friend had a similar book that portrayed Black folks as violent thugs trying to steal from Korean owned stores. The Korean "Guide to Business Ownership in Black Communities" was also published by the U.S. department of tourism and commerce. And it was like a lightbulb went off in our heads b/c we all at once started to get some clue as to why the interactions between Asians (particularly foreign born Asians) and Blacks has always been tense. The U.S. government was mass producing derogatory images of Black folks abroad and those folks were interacting with Blacks based on false information.

Can you remember any more specifics about these books or pamphlets? The reason I ask is that they might be helpful in a social anthropolgy paper I'm working on...

Basically I'm examining the covert and subversive methods used by certain "Racial Supremists or Racial Nation" organizations and movements in spreading misinformation under the guise of legitimate academics or governmental agencies... and these books may or may not be candidates for inclusion - depending on thier origins (ie. from a government agency as opposed to through a government agency). Examples of extra-national operations do exist, but are very hard to come by as most are the products of individuals and not the oganizations/movements themselves.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Jells
Do we still have beef with each other? Why can we not get along?

This is on a person-to-person basis. I get annoyed when Africans make generalizations of African Americans and vice versa. Some Africans and African Americans get along very well. I feel a kinship with everyone from the African Diaspora. We're the same people, just some of us our ancesters were picked up and dropped off at different continents.

I know quite a bit about Africa, have family members and close acquaintances who are African, and my name is Swahili (I know not every African country speaks Swahili). Yet, without fail, Africans often meet me and automatically start to give me an "African tutorial." That's as insulting as my meeting Africans and treating them like they just arrived in America yesterday and/or haven't learned English.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Jells
people tend to attribute positive experiences to an individual and negative experiences to the whole group.

Exactly!! That's also called "attribution theory."

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by PhDiva
I think there are definite cultural differences which factor into the relationships between Africans and African Americans such as different religions, protocol for interacting with elders and different expectations for men and women and children.

I completely disagree. I see many more similarities than differences. The differences are those of (a generalizable) American culture as compared to African culture (there is no ONE culture) and not African American culture as compared to African culture.

But, there are a lot of countries in Africa, so we have to be careful not the generalize an entire continent. There are differences between Kenyans and Nigerians, for example.