Discrepancies in the way we view rush

[aephi alum]

There is definitely a certain amount of shallowness in formal recruitment, at least in the early rounds. Chapters have to make first-round cuts based on very little information: GPA, the impressions of a few sisters garnered during a short round 1 party, maybe a rec, and maybe the impressions of a sister or two who knew the PNM before college. As rush continues and the sororities and PNMs are narrowing their options and spending more and more time together, the process becomes less shallow.

It's like the hiring process. Say a company advertises a job opening. Maybe they get 100 resumes. Someone reads through the resumes and keeps maybe 15 of them. The 85 resumes that get discarded are not only the ones that clearly indicate the candidate is unqualified, but also the ones full of misspellings, illegible, on pink scented paper, etc. This is a first-round cut, and some of it is based on presentation. Now, 15 job candidates get first round interviews. During the interviews, some of them show that while they look good on paper, they're not a good fit. Others show up late, or are dressed in a slovenly manner, etc. Others show up on time, are dressed professionally, have done their research on the company, etc. It's this latter group who will be asked back for second-round interviews... the others will be "cut". The company may invest a lot in the second-round interviews, having several employees interview each candidate, taking the candidates to lunch, etc. It's often a full-day process. Only then, after really getting to know each candidate, is a job offer (bid) extended. But that new hire might never have even gotten a callback if his/her resume had had even one typo.

[James]

I think Sugar and Spice is pointing out that we are creating a cognitive dissonance for PNMs by saying that RUSH isn't shallow when in fact we all pretty much acknowledge it is.

Even for the guys.

It would be more . . honest . . to tell PNMs that its a shallow and somewhat capricious process.

Especially in schools that have created an artificial shortage of spaces for potential members either through limiting total or limiting the amount of groups.

Any campus that can fill quota for almost all organizations based almost solely on freshmen and transfers going through formal rush has created a limited market that leads to more "shallow" choices.

ETA: I apologize if I am misreading Sugar and Spices original intention.

[STL Kappa]

Brandi brings up an awesome point... it goes both ways. I literally heard girls going through recruitment chatting about how they were going to cut XYZ because they didn't like the way the house smelled. The PNMs can get ridiculous as well.

In my opinion, rush is somewhat of a game. You just have to know how to play. Yes, the house knows who you are, what you did in high school and where you're from when you walk in the door on day one... but it doesn't hurt to try to make yourself stand out. Last year, myself and the other 1100 PNMs were given t-shirts by panhel to wear two of the four days of rush. So how do you separate yourself? I wore a pair of huge chandelier earrings and carried a Gucci... and I went to the maximum number of parties every day and received a bid to my top choice. Yes, it sounds shallow... I'm not denying that. But what makes you stand out in high school? Cheerleading, volunteering, Homecoming court, grades, sports. Recruitment is an environment where EVERY girl stood out in high school... and now you have to find a new way to make yourself stand out. By the way... I would hardly consider my school, Mizzou, a Southern school... rush can be like this anywhere.

By no means are girls selected merely because of those things... and the alums and members that dedicate their summers to learning about the PNMs would be offended if one were to assume that. Yes, you fill out that application... and I'd put money on the fact that houses know much more about you than what you put on it. Being pretty and looking the part alone isn't going to get you in... but when recruitment brings in 1000+ girls, it may help you to be remembered.

I don't think we're being two faced by encouraging PNMs to go through recruitment and acknowledging it can be shallow at the same time. A house would be crazy to extend a bid to a woman with a pretty face and nothing else to offer... and far too much work is put into recruitment to do so.

[adpiucf]

Recruitment, no matter how scientific the method of membership selection, is subjective at best. It is an interview, and all interviews are subject to the interviewer and the interviewee's inhernet biases.

[FSUZeta]

well said. stlkappa!!

[STL Kappa]

Why thank you!!

[Little E]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Something I've found interesting while reading through this forum on GC is the hypocrisy inherent in this forum. We are constantly assuring people that sorority rush is not a shallow process, that what you wear or how attractive you are doesn't matter as long as you make an effort to put yourself together, that every girl should give each sorority an equal chance and not listen to rumors, that you don't have to have money or connections to get into a sorority.

I think this is kind of interesting and have been wondering about how others reconcile our words veruses our actions.

I think that rush is inherently shallow, but more so when done in a formal rush setting. I really have come to like the way informal works and how it allows for more of an opportunity to get to know women better.

Here's where I'm coming from: In HS I was yearbook editor for three years, student council, student rep to the school board, lettered in athletics, and a slew of other activities. However, I HATED my HS. I would never have been on homecoming court, cheerleading any kind of nonsense that would have forced me to associate any more than necessary with the 'popluar' kids. They hated me, and I avoided them like the plague. I was told on a regular basis that I was ugly and worthless (which I can now say is just bologna). My HS was a small rural experience and I in no way fit in, in fact I managed to get kicked off student coucil by the advisor. Does any of this make me someone who should not be allowed a chance at a sorority? I don't think it does. I went to college and was determined to change. I wanted to start over. I wanted to be less shy (which comes off as stand-offish), I wanted to know everyone and just have fun for once. I went to a school, where no one from my grad class was and did it. I was uber involved, knew everyone and had a fabulous experience. One of the best parts of my experience was AST. I had to learn to work with the 'popular' types and the types like myself, and women who were just a pain in the ass (though I do love them ).

In my northern estimation, I would never have been given the chance to do this in a formal setting where all my histories were dug up. My sisters got to know me through dinners, parties, classes etc and they 'deemed' me worthy. When I look at the positive aspects of greek life, I think part of that is the ability to create a bond that is about who you truly are. I know you have to choose 80 from 1000, but I want everyone to be given a chance to find a place to flourish. To me, the researched, high intensity rush does not let people change or redefine themselves in the same way a smaller rush situation does. I would love to plan outfits and skits, but even more, I loved that my chapter really empowered me to take some chances I never would have expected or thought possible.

[STL Kappa]

Originally posted by Little E
To me, the researched, high intensity rush does not let people change or redefine themselves in the same way a smaller rush situation does.

Could you explain what you mean by this? (I'm not trying to attack you, I just don't understand it!) I guess I just don't get how changing and redefining yourself as a person is inhibited by the style of recruitment you participate in... maybe I'm just not getting it...

[33girl]

Originally posted by STL Kappa
Could you explain what you mean by this? (I'm not trying to attack you, I just don't understand it!) I guess I just don't get how changing and redefining yourself as a person is inhibited by the style of recruitment you participate in... maybe I'm just not getting it...

Part of what she means is what I said - just because someone was the queen of everything in high school does not mean she is a good person. Some of them are extremely bitchy. Sometimes they were only the queen of everything because there were 2.5 people in their class and everyone else was lazy.

And I think she also meant that if women are getting cut based solely on a resume of what they did in high school - which often is happening in earlier rounds - they don't get the chance to say "hey, just because I was in 300 beauty pageants doesn't mean I want to be in the house with the other pageant winners. My mom made me do that. I would rather be in a chapter where people wear no makeup and sweats 90% of the time." Or vice versa.

Judging people on what they were or who they knew in high school often is not fair at all in college rush. And if you have to rush right after high school you haven't gotten a chance to redefine yourself in the way you want. You probably still believe some of the stereotypes that were hung on you even if they were BS.

(Little E, I don't mean to answer for you, but I absolutely agreed and understood where you were coming from with your post.)

[STL Kappa]

I think this could be argued for hours. Those women who, like me, went through formal recruitment in the fall can just as easily argue that their dedication and resume from high school suggests how dedicated they will be to an organization in college. As previously discussed, many chapters look for a "total package" that calls for a well rounded individual... and one of the ways to determine that is to see what the PNM was previously involved with.

I also think that it is fair to take into consideration who a PNM knew prior to coming to college. Obviously a PNM should not be chosen merely because she was so-and-so's best friend... but if a PNM knows women in the house from high school, they can often give an idea of what the PNM is like outside of a rush setting... which can be very beneficial to the house as well as the PNM.

Finally, many women do not need an opportunity to redefine themselves after high school and are already confident with who they are when they come to college. To deny them the opportunity to participate in rush immediately and get involved with a house as soon as possible would be just as unfair as not allowing women who do need a period of time to adjust to wait to rush until they're more comfortable.

The point is, no recruitment/rush situation is going to make everyone happy.

[33girl]

Congratulations on having fun in high school, that's all I can say.

As far as it being "unfair" to make someone wait...you have the rest of your life to be a sister of your sorority. Why push someone to do so before they're ready or penalize them if they decide on their own to wait...which unfortunately is what happens to most women who wait till sophomore year at UT, LSU etc etc etc. They find themselves "handicapped" because they are sophomores, and their choices limited.

[STL Kappa]

Just because some of us did a lot in high school does not mean we all had fun... haha.

As far as it being "unfair" to make someone wait...you have the rest of your life to be a sister of your sorority. Why push someone to do so before they're ready or penalize them if they decide on their own to wait...

Anyways... I do consider it to be unfair to make some women wait until spring (or whenever) to join a sorority. How is it "pushing" someone if they feel they are ready? I'm sure many people would love for schools to have both fall and spring recruitment so everyone could get an opportunity to join an organization when they feel prepared to do so... but at schools that do have both, it always seems like one is always much more successful than the other... which, again, leads me to believe that there will never be a way for everyone to be happy. That's the harsh reality.

I wonder how the whole "handicapped" thing came about in rush. I feel like it wouldn't be used if someone hadn't thought long and hard about it... but it seems so silly at the same time.

[33girl]

Originally posted by STL Kappa
Anyways... I do consider it to be unfair to make some women wait until spring (or whenever) to join a sorority. How is it "pushing" someone if they feel they are ready?

I was referring to the people who DON'T feel ready, but know that if they wait until second semester or sophomore year their choices will be greatly diminished.

I don't know, I just wish that instead of nationals giving awards to chapters for making quota or total, they would give them for retention or percentage of sisters participating in activities instead. It would make more sense to focus on the whole sorority experience rather than the results of (what is usually) one week of the year. Like I said in another thread, it doesn't matter how much NPC says that rush is 24/7/365 when their actions don't match it.

[alphaalpha]

I completly agree with what LIttle E has to say.

I think some people have gotten slightly away from what she was saying. I beleive she is talking about not wanting sororities to do research on you and base recruitment desicions based on who other people thought you were in High School. She was talking about (and i agree) that she was someone who people did not know and when she went away to college she wanted the opportunity to have sorority women judge her on who she was and not on who some people might think she is.

I completly agree with this idea. If you were to ask people from my High school about me they would "paint" a very different picture of who i am. I went to school were i went to school cause nobody else i knew was going to be there. I did not want the same "reputation" in college that i have had since the time i was in 4th grade and did something stupid that everyone still remembers to this day. I think that LIttle E is saying that this is what she feels like would happen if women in sororities would do research on her before she even got to campus and started rush.

I am sure that every one of us has had at least one person in our lives who have judged you on something you did that was taken wrong or you did when you were little. Now this same person would probably just say bad things about you, something like, Oh, debbie, she is really stupid. Oh my god she is soo sluttly i heard that she only spends time with guys cause she pays them to hang out with her (of course none of that is true). Anyway, there are people that i went to High school with that would say these things about me cause they said them to my face in high shcool. I really would not want to go to a school were the sororities did research on me and had heard some really bad things about (things that were not even close to being true) and based recruitment choices on what other people say about me.

[PhoenixAzul]

In many ways, this is why I'm glad we don't do rush with resumes. I think there are a lot of girls who would be "mediocre" to "poor" in other schools that are going through rush...and the sorority is just the outlet they need. It gives them a chance to take on as much responsibility as they want, learn leadership, and express themselves. They just may not be able to act in that capacity in high school or in other campus clubs.

I think in a lot of ways, these girls that some call "mediocre" are EXACTLY THE GIRLS WE SHOULD BE RECRUITING. While it is NICE to have a house of beautiful 4.0 Rhoades Scholars who rescue kittens on the weekends, is it not also the purpose of the sorority to instill the values of scholarship, compassion, learning, etc?

I don't think I came into Tau Delta a polished stone, but I have been shaped, formed, molded into a person that is proud to be a Delta...and I'm proud that my acomplishments only make Her look better....and I don't think I'd be as disciplined as I am now.