Teacher's salaries

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by kddani
I've had more education, paid a lot of money, etc.

Wow.

I have friends from college who decided to go into teaching. They're making less than their last year of tuition cost, but obviously they don't feel they're entitled to more money because of how much they paid for college. Once you account for their BA, MEd, and whatever other enrichment courses they have to take--it's more than the 7 years of school an attorney has to attend.

So, some people have even more education and have paid even more money than you did--and they're (gasp!) teachers. Imagine that!

[kddani]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
I have friends from college who decided to go into teaching. They're making less than their last year of tuition cost, but obviously they don't feel they're entitled to more money because of how much they paid for college. Once you account for their BA, MEd, and whatever other enrichment courses they have to take--it's more than the 7 years of school an attorney has to attend.

So, some people have even more education and have paid even more money than you did--and they're (gasp!) teachers. Imagine that!

Not from my high school. There are a couple PhDs, which I can totally understand being paid more money. But the highest most of them have is a masters, and being that a lot of them are from Pitt, that's one year of schooling after your BA.

About any hours they put in, etc. A few teachers did put in a lot of hours (and they're not the ones getting paid $75k... the ones getting paid over $75K are the ancient ones who don't do ANYTHING extra and who generally are NOT good teachers, but they can't be fired easily because of the unions). But most of them were out the door shortly after the dismissal bell. And I do know this as fact because I stayed after school almost every day for something or other. Most of them didn't do anything extra in the summer.

I'm entitled to my opinon, especially since it's MY school district in particular. No, I don't feel that 1/3 of them should be making over $75K. That's absurd, IN MY OPINION.

And you're entitled to your opinion. But i'm not putting on an attitude and getting nasty because I don't agree with your opinion. So chill!

[winneythepooh7]

And just because you "paid a lot for your education" doesn't make you holier than thou either, or deserving of a higher salary. There are many people I meet with a ton of degrees, and they don't know much more then what they read in some book. Some people are also afraid of actually going out into the real world and actually working too.......... . When I did my internship at a law school, I met MANY students who were like, on their THIRD degree at that point, still had no clue what they wanted to do, but felt they needed to make a ton of cash, AND felt they "were better" then teachers and those working in the helping professions because now they were getting a LAW DEGREE!!!!!!!! Did you ever stop to think that maybe some of the teachers who left early also have young children and families they are responsible for at home? Not every teacher has to be a soccer coach!!!! And like I did mention about my mom and most other teachers I know. They bring their work home with them at night.............

[kddani]

Originally posted by winneythepooh7
And just because you "paid a lot for your education" doesn't make you holier than thou either, or deserving of a higher salary. There are many people I meet with a ton of degrees, and they don't know much more then what they read in some book. Some people are also afraid of actually going out into the real world and actually working too.......... . When I did my internship at a law school, I met MANY students who were like, on their THIRD degree at that point, still had no clue what they wanted to do, but felt they needed to make a ton of cash, AND felt they "were better" then teachers and those working in the helping professions because now they were getting a LAW DEGREE!!!!!!!! Did you ever stop to think that maybe some of the teachers who left early also have young children and families they are responsible for at home? Not every teacher has to be a soccer coach!!!! And like I did mention about my mom and most other teachers I know. They bring their work home with them at night.............

Hey, I haven't belittled anyone, I haven't made fun of anyone, haven't ripped on YOUR profession, etc., so lose the attitude. You have have a grown up discussion without the eye rolling at attitude

I said that many teachers left early, yes, because posters were saying what long hours teachers put in. A first grade teacher can't have that much work to correct, for instance. 30 tests of 2+2, spelling tests...

Most people in their professions put in long hours. A lot of people take their work home with them. Teachers aren't special in that regards.

With all the gripes i've heard from teachers on this message board, the more it makes me think that the teachers from my school district should appreciate how good they do have it. We were never short of supplies, we always had what we needed or wanted (i've seen that gripe around here a lot too). They get paid damn good money compared to teachers in other states, have great job security (AGAIN, for those of you who seem to think i'm attacking teachers everywhere, I am speaking of MY school district, which I know more about than anyone else on here), and great benefits. The teachers unions in this area are incredibly powerful.

I had some fabulous teachers. But I also had some teachers who were terrible. Just because you hold the position of teacher does not make you automatically a saint, deserving of a high salary, and above reproach.

[winneythepooh7]

Sweetie, first off if you plan to be a "lawyer" I'd get used to people having an attitude. Second, my mom taught second grade, as well as third, and it was a lot more than grading 30 papers of 2+2. If you don't know what you are talking about I'd do some research instead of making uninformed comments that are extremely generalized. And I've read many of your posts elsewhere which have extreme "attitude" in them so no, I am not changing my tone, nor my "attitude".

[ZTAngel]

I think teachers should get paid more just for having to put up with the looney parents that are out there! My mom and my best friend are both teachers and the stories they've told me about some of these parents are unbelievable. They think their kids can do no wrong.

[KSigkid]

The fact is that none of us can make the across-the-board comment that any profession is free of freeloaders. We all know of lawyers, teachers, businesspeople, etc. who do not put in the hours necessary to do a good job or to rightfully earn their paycheck. There are good and bad examples in every profession.

KDDANI, I can see where you're coming from in that there are some teachers who simply collect a paycheck. I think most of us had teachers or knew of teachers along the way who were like that.

There were also many of us who have been lucky enough to have teachers (or parents, uncles/aunts, grandparents who were teachers) who spent long hours doing their job and helping their students.

Also...not to nitpick, but even lower-grade teachers can have a lot of work to do outside of the classroom. Correcting papers may be a small part of it, but it lesson planning for a group of younger children is a challenge. You not only have to hold their attention (which can be a full-time job in itself), but also develop a plan that will give them a solid base of knowledge. You're introducting previously foreign concepts to them, concepts that will serve as the foundation of their education from that point onward.

I think everyone on here has made good points; we just have to realize that there are other sides to the story.

[AGDee]

When my kids were in 1st and 2nd grade, they did at least 10 different papers (math, handwriting, spelling, social studies, science, etc) a day. Multiplied by 20 students = 200 per DAY! All of them were graded and corrected by the teacher. Now that my daughter is older (5th grade) her teacher has them swap papers and correct their peers' papers for spelling and math, but she has the longer, more intensive tests and written papers to read. We get a packet of about 20 papers back every Monday. I think she corrects all of those on the weekend... over 400 papers per weekend could be daunting.

The gym teacher has it a little easier though.

Dee

[winneythepooh7]

Also more and more children are coming into classrooms with a great deal of problems. These can be anything from problems at home to severe learning disabilities or a combo of both. Teachers take the heat from parents who are in denial about their child, if they even get to work with the parent at all. Also teaching nowadays is not like when many of us were in school. It isn't about creativity anymore, it is about preparing for standardized tests. Classrooms in general are overcrowded and from what I have been told, many special-needs children are just being placed in the regular classrooms with not much support. And you can forget about Social Workers being available to help out with difficult cases. Everyone I speak to who is a teacher said this is the first position that is cut due to low budgets. And also, in many cases, one Social Worker is expected to be shared from k-12 in one school district. I think that no matter what profession we go into we are going to have difficulty and think that other professions have it easier then us, but I get really heated because it always seems that people are quick to jump on the professions of teaching and the helping professions. Not to pick on the lawyers on this board but when I did my internship at a law school, all of us in the Social Work program wanted to start a support group and individual counseling for many of the law students and lawyers themselves because of the many different issues they were going through.

Originally posted by chideltjen
I never understood why teachers whine and complain about salaries and whatnot.

I'm making half of what they are making and I don't get THREE WHOLE MONTHS OFF! (Yes I realize it's not paid, but still... it's 3 months off...)

HAHAHAHAHA you'll never understand? I get up at 5 and sometimes go to bed by midnight......after all the coaching and grading and preparing for the next day is done, and trying to help the junior class get their prom together that is in a month and a half, and getting a bite to eat in there somewhere. I barely make 30,000. OH, and then I have to drive almost 2 hours so that I can finish up school for myself. We have more contact with kids than most parents do during the school year. THEN we get to put up with parents if they think we looked at their baby the wrong way. If we didn't get three months off, there would probably not be ANY teachers left on the planet. OH and it is a paid 3 months. I think those three months make up for all the extra crap we have to do during the school year.

/soapbox

[AWJDZ]

Originally posted by AGDee
The gym teacher has it a little easier though.

Dee

whoa...this gym teacher gives written assignment just like the classroom teacher, teach Red Cross first aid and cpr, health, and intergrates her lessons with what the classroom teachers are teaching...the 7th is learning about Native Americans, great...we will learn about what Native American did for recreation, what muscle groups were used in those activies, learn about their diet, health problems, and how their lifestyle has influenced ours. Keep in mind that my class has an average of 40+ students. (good) Physical Education is not all about throwing out some basketballs. I tie in math into my lessons as much as I can. I took several nursing level classes, lots of science and math, and several other required classes that were not sport related...not to mention the general teacher ed. classes. Hopefully my students will learn a lifetime sport while in my class and continue participating in it. Maybe then, the rate of heart problems, diabetes, and other conditions that are related to being overweight/unactive will decline.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by kddani
Just because you hold the position of teacher does not make you automatically a saint, deserving of a high salary, and above reproach.

The same thing can be said for the legal profession, too.

[kddani]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
The same thing can be said for the legal profession, too.

Ah, no shit, never claimed to be any of the above. But everyone is making teachers out, in this thread at least, to be what I said. But they're not. In an ideal world, they would be, but there's no ideal world.

The teachers on GC have taught me that there are schools out there where the teachers work for peanuts, have to buy a lot of their own supplies, etc. And that sucks. Which is why I was so flabbergasted that the teachers in my school district make more than many college professors do. Like I said, after reading what some of you have had to deal with as teachers, I wish that teachers in my school district would realize how fortunate they truly are.

Originally posted by winneythepooh7 Sweetie, first off if you plan to be a "lawyer" I'd get used to people having an attitude. Second, my mom taught second grade, as well as third, and it was a lot more than grading 30 papers of 2+2. If you don't know what you are talking about I'd do some research instead of making uninformed comments that are extremely generalized. And I've read many of your posts elsewhere which have extreme "attitude" in them so no, I am not changing my tone, nor my "attitude".

Okay, you want to get personal? There's no reason to have an attitude on an internet message board where there's somewhat of a rational discussion going on. Being a lawyer and being on an internet message board are too different things. They have nothing to do with another. And where I'm going to practice, people don't have that much of an attitude. It's called professionalism.
I'm not even going to comment on what I think of most of your posts on this message board. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Yep, I can have an attitude myself on here. So what? Mainly it's towards people attacking GCers, to people making racist or otherwise widely unacceptable comments. No towards people having an actual rational discussion.

Not to pick on the lawyers on this board but when I did my internship at a law school, all of us in the Social Work program wanted to start a support group and individual counseling for many of the law students and lawyers themselves because of the many different issues they were going through.

that's nice, but doesn't really have anything to do with anything. Every group has problems. Most people have some sort of issue in their lives that they could use help dealing with.

[HelloKitty22]

Kddani,
In your original post you seemed to be complaining about the fact that the average teacher (who probably has at least a master degree and has probably been teaching for quite a few years) is possibly going to get paid more then you will with no previous work experience and a law school degree.
You also seemed to be complaining about the high school taxes in your area. Which you I quess believe are unfair or are not "worth it."
Well, my response to that is you can't have everything! You can't have low school taxes and good schools. You can't attract talented people (who if they are genuinely talented have other career options) to this field if you don't pay them well. That money has to come from school taxes. If you want teachers who aren't the bottom of the barrel then you have to compete with other sectors of the economy.
I would rather have somebody teaching my child who had said "I'm not going to go to law school, I think I'll teach ... because I still have the chance to make a decent salary and I really want to do it," than someone who said "I can't get into law school, I think I'll teach .. because nobody else is applying for teaching jobs."
Personally, if you are willing to sacrifice good schools for lower taxes that is your business and is a decision your community can make but if you do decide to have kids you'll just end up paying it in private school tuition.
Also, I just want to note... you seem to be complaining that you won't be making money because your considering clerking for a judge. I agree with you that for the ONE year you clerk you'll be making a smaller than average salary but once you have that very prestigous credential completed, you will be compensated very well for a LONG time for the sacrifice you made. This is what teachers make ... Period. They don't go on to high paying jobs after their one year clerkship.

[kddani]

Originally posted by HelloKitty22
Kddani,
This is what teachers make ... Period. They don't go on to high paying jobs after their one year clerkship.

Actually the figures that I posted were from my school district, the teachers who actually taught me. They start off at $39K and can go over $75K, at least for the moment. Over the years, their contract negotiations will make it go up.

A lot of people in our community are shocked... my initial shock was comparing it to what my salary may be. Yes, I want to clerk for a judge, but even if I wasn't, the salaries for attorneys starting out in anything but the big firms are not what people think they are. You'd be damn lucky to see $75K, and likely will see $45-55K. And clerking isn't as prestigious of a job as it seems... especially with the economy

Since it was my own school district that I was raised and educated in, and keep up with fairly well, I know the quality of the education. For $75K, those teachers should've taught myself and the rest of my classmates how to write before I got to college... thankfully I had great college teachers my first year who helped me out a lot.