Colorado returns to "Hands On" with GLO's

[Tom Earp]

You Know TE, that is the sad part. To be run off of a Major Campus as a Greek Organization or As Greeks as A Total.

There are many funny things happening to Greeks now, Schools kicking Greeks totally off of Campus and others building Greek Houseing for Greeks.

Remember, in looking at these newest Greek Areas, they are not built as Dorms for Students, but for Greeks!

Is this called the Cusp of Change?

[Rudey]

Firehouse, what other students orgs live in off-campus housing? I don't understand what you mean.

Does the university own the housing? How can they require staff to live in it? Who pays for that?

-Rudey

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Sorry, I meant to get back to this earlier.

I cannont speak for the alumni of other GLOs at Colorado, but I know a lot of Beta Kappa Chapter Delt alums who are absolutely fed up with the C.U. Greek System and would probably fight recolonizing in Boulder -- and many of them are very influential in the Denver area, the Fraternity and in the university's alumni base.

Based on what DTD did that final time to the house, I don't blame you or the alumni for that mindset.

The trashing of the DTD house was so extensive, it made local and national TV news - it was unreal. I have seen something similar with the old ATO house (now Sigma Chi) at CSU, but the DTD house was literally just finished with those renovations....which by the way were the ENVY of the CU greek system at the time, and the damage was phenomenal - I don't think a single piece of glass, door, or piece of plaster or drywall didn't need replaced.

Of course, the newscasters just couldn't help but mention that John Elway was a Delt - and then he had to face stupid questions (first, he was a Stanford, not CU, etc....) that showed me nothing more than the FACT that stereotypes often drive "factual" news stories.

It was in the newspaper as well - an absolutely vitriolic OP/ED piece against greeks appeared in the following days - again proving to me that many press members run on stereotypes, and do very little fact-checking before publishing anything.

I also think DA is right about the old mindset of giving the greeks just enough rope to hang themselves is dead on. What the campus administration apparently failed to realize, though, was, once the slack ran out, the rope was also around their own necks - so they decided to act. They are acting to show they are doing "something" but, I think it is analagous to a band-aid on a sucking chest wound. Not enough, and it will get worse. I wish it weren't the case, but that is the CU campus in a nutshell.

[Firehouse]

Rudey, I think you got me on that. I made the mistake of assuming that student housing at the University of Colorado is the same or similar to what we have here. After I saw your question, I looked up the University of Colorado website. It's interesting: they state on the website that they do not have a legal relationship with the fraternity and sorority chapters. However they DO recognize the IFC, PanHellenic, etc as student organizations that can apply for University funding. It's rare for a school to state publicly that they do not have a legal relationship with the chapters, but what's not unusual is that Colorado is similar to others chools in their desire to not recognize fraternities/sororities individually. Most schools refuse to recognize any chapter independent of their memebrship in an umbrella organization. For instance, college X would refuse to recognize a chapter of Pi Kappa Alpha as an independent student organization, extending recognition only to the extent that it is a member of IFC. That gives the university more control and supposedly reduces liability - both things they like very much.
But in fact, any fraternity or sorority chapter can apply for individual, independent recognition at a public university, and the university MUST recognize them unless they represent a danger to the institution or to students. These standards were set thirty years ago by various hippie/drug/communist/feminist/homosexual groups who felt marginalized, and sued for the recognition they had been denied. They won, and that's why the schools today cannot refuse to recognize individual chapters as student organizations. For the most part, no one bucks the system. But, there is one here on my campus. One large, prominent national fraternity established a colony here, applied for standing as a student organization, and flew completely under the radar of the greek affairs/IFC crowd. Here they are: tooling along participating in rush and tweaking their website, happy as a cod. They are not members of the IFC, but they are a university-recognized student organization.
Rudey, I guess what I was talking about was student organizations like the marching band, various religious and ethnic student unions, sports teams, political (feminist) enclaves, professional societies...that sort of thing. If the school decrees that no one can join a fraternity or sorority, then are they not obligated also to apply the same rule to all student organizations? Surely the Rugby Club has enjoyed a beer or two in its time. Most college bands have some sort of hazing program.
Colorado seems to be telling fraternities they don't recognize that they must pay to have university personnel live in their houses as school spies. The IFC is the recognized body, and the IFC said no. So often, these administrators are interested only in what sounds good to the camera, without much thought to what they're actually permittedto do.
I realize that often the best solution is to be cooperative, graceful, sensitive, diplomatic and political. It's just not my style.

[Rudey]

I didn't realize student orgs ever were housed together - like the marching band had their own building. I thought maybe guys from the band who loved playing horns 24/7 and perhaps wanted to play each others' horns behind closed doors, may live together but not as an org.

It's best to carry a carrot and a stick from what I've heard.

-Rudey

Originally posted by Firehouse
Rudey, I think you got me on that. I made the mistake of assuming that student housing at the University of Colorado is the same or similar to what we have here. After I saw your question, I looked up the University of Colorado website. It's interesting: they state on the website that they do not have a legal relationship with the fraternity and sorority chapters. However they DO recognize the IFC, PanHellenic, etc as student organizations that can apply for University funding. It's rare for a school to state publicly that they do not have a legal relationship with the chapters, but what's not unusual is that Colorado is similar to others chools in their desire to not recognize fraternities/sororities individually. Most schools refuse to recognize any chapter independent of their memebrship in an umbrella organization. For instance, college X would refuse to recognize a chapter of Pi Kappa Alpha as an independent student organization, extending recognition only to the extent that it is a member of IFC. That gives the university more control and supposedly reduces liability - both things they like very much.
But in fact, any fraternity or sorority chapter can apply for individual, independent recognition at a public university, and the university MUST recognize them unless they represent a danger to the institution or to students. These standards were set thirty years ago by various hippie/drug/communist/feminist/homosexual groups who felt marginalized, and sued for the recognition they had been denied. They won, and that's why the schools today cannot refuse to recognize individual chapters as student organizations. For the most part, no one bucks the system. But, there is one here on my campus. One large, prominent national fraternity established a colony here, applied for standing as a student organization, and flew completely under the radar of the greek affairs/IFC crowd. Here they are: tooling along participating in rush and tweaking their website, happy as a cod. They are not members of the IFC, but they are a university-recognized student organization.
Rudey, I guess what I was talking about was student organizations like the marching band, various religious and ethnic student unions, sports teams, political (feminist) enclaves, professional societies...that sort of thing. If the school decrees that no one can join a fraternity or sorority, then are they not obligated also to apply the same rule to all student organizations? Surely the Rugby Club has enjoyed a beer or two in its time. Most college bands have some sort of hazing program.
Colorado seems to be telling fraternities they don't recognize that they must pay to have university personnel live in their houses as school spies. The IFC is the recognized body, and the IFC said no. So often, these administrators are interested only in what sounds good to the camera, without much thought to what they're actually permittedto do.
I realize that often the best solution is to be cooperative, graceful, sensitive, diplomatic and political. It's just not my style.

[Firehouse]

I've given you the wrong impression again. Here, there are large apartment complexes radiating out from the campus and that's where most kids live. Some sports teams do have their own University housing. Some of the campus dorms contain concentrations of particular elements like the band (ours has over 500 kids). I don't intend for the discussion to be primarily about housing. I should have learned more about the U-Colorado specifically before I said anything. Still, what they're saying is: We don't recognize you, but you have to do what we say in your off-campus house, and we're not going to put the same restrictions on other student groups.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Firehouse
I realize that often the best solution is to be cooperative, graceful, sensitive, diplomatic and political. It's just not my style.

This really needs to be a t-shirt.

We need a GC Swag store.

[BSUPhiSig'92]

From what I've heard, the CU administration is under considerable political pressure from the legislature and the governor to do something to bring what many people are seeing as an out of control student body under control. CU has taken many black eyes in the press in recent years, and the pressure is on.

[Tom Earp]

The Free Wheeling at CU has about come to an end from all reports!

Maybe it is time for the Ski Bum attitude of CU Adm. to realize, They are a Higher School of Learning.

This is not to say come down with an Iron Fist with Greeks only.

Hell, they have enough Problems with their Sports Programs and swept that under the carpet.

Sounds like they need to set a mandate for ALL Groups, not single a few out!

Uniformity sounds like the Call Word!

[33girl]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Sounds like they need to set a mandate for ALL Groups, not single a few out!

Absolutely agree. If they keep doing as little as they need to do, and incidents keep happening, they'll really end up looking silly.

[AGDee]

An update from CNN:

Fraternity group challenges Colorado's deferred rush
Thursday, January 27, 2005 Posted: 12:55 PM EST (1755 GMT)

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- An umbrella group for college fraternities has criticized a University of Colorado plan to push back recruitment to the second semester of freshman year following the alcohol-related death of a pledge.

Jon Williamson, vice president of the North-American Interfraternity Conference in Indianapolis, said Tuesday the plan is unconstitutional.

"To deny students the right to associate with whom they choose is not going to address the major issues on the campus," Jon Williamson said.

Full article

[LXAAlum]

I applaud this challenge by the fraternities.

IMO, the "deferred rush" mandate is not addressing the problem of underage drinking, and yes, I believe they are right in the freedom of association aspect.

The only way to combat the problem of underage drinking is some drastic "in your face" education of underage college students. Teens/young adults still live in a world of "it can't happen to me" mentality...the tragic events at several campuses in Colorado prove this point.

Though I don't really favor it, I also see the possible changes of national fraternities to go dry (FarmHouse...for a long time, Sigma Nu, Phi Delt, and others) will have an effect, but still won't fix the overall problem.

[Tom Earp]

LXAAlum, I am sure you are correct with The Band approach as it were.

There seems to be a Greek Union running amok because the Sports Loving Adm dont want anything to upset their Money Cows.

But now all of a sudden, well maybe not from reports, that they really feel they sould step in.

Isnt the Total Problem Greeks Them Selves?

Dang, what does it take? Greeks F**K up We are in Trouble all over the College World? True!

I never really understood what Defered Rush Did! Like Hell I dont!

Keep Greeks down! Dont get New Kids who want to party and meet Women or vise versa?