Student suicide raises questions about UCF Pike

[boz130]

Technically, anybody who's a member of an alumni(ae) board is liable. I pray that my umbrella policy never has to be dusted off, especially since I'm on 2 boards.

Interfraternally,
Bill F.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by boz130
Technically, anybody who's a member of an alumni(ae) board is liable. I pray that my umbrella policy never has to be dusted off, especially since I'm on 2 boards.

Interfraternally,
Bill F.

Absolutely right, which is one reason it is sometimes hard to find alumni volunteers. I'm not an officer of any kind right now, but when I was, I augmented my personal liability policy.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by boz130
Technically, anybody who's a member of an alumni(ae) board is liable. I pray that my umbrella policy never has to be dusted off, especially since I'm on 2 boards.

Interfraternally,
Bill F.

Has anyone actually sued any alumni boards though or is this just a long shot?

-Rudey

[adpiucf]

That is a really good question, Rudey. I've read a lot of cases where chapters have successfully been sued, and members have had their future wages garnished to pay damages, etc... and instances where national orgs have been taken to court. I do wonder, too, have the alum advisers ever been held fiscally accountable, or the national officers.

[WCUgirl]

What should one who is an alumni/ae board member do to protect themself from such liability? And are we talking about strictly advisory board members, or can members of an alumni/ae association be held liable as well (for example, if they stepped in and donated some of the $ that was needed to pay damages)?

And if the board members were to get sued individually, would they not be able to claim that they acted in a reasonable duty of care in their capacity as advisors in order to avoid liability?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
Has anyone actually sued any alumni boards though or is this just a long shot?

-Rudey

There have been several (not a lot) instances of Chapter Advisors and Housing Corp members being sued listed here in Risk Management.

Unfortunately, I don't have time to look for them.

Two comments on that. I don't know the outcome of those cases, and I suspect that a lawyer would have to know a fair amount about how a chapter works (like being a Greek alum) to know enough to include an advisor or House Corp member in the suit.

Finally, I would think that every National office carries blanket liability insurance for volunteers -- probably a million dollars. However, with the size of some litigation these days, I added my own policy at my expense. Off the top of my head, I think it was around $100/year as part of another policy (homeowners maybe?). I could be wrong on the cost.

[cashmoney]

I don't know why this is surprising to any of you, you have all heard my stories of how my chapter was before we got kicked off campus and our charter pulled. True, very few of you believed me even when i posted newspaper articles about some of my chapter brothers dying....but why all the surprising comments? Did you all think it was just me? I didnt become the person i once was on my own. I was actually a good kid entering college before i joined a fraternity. And I'm not saying I dont love my org, because i do. But, there's shit that goes on in all kinds of chapters at Florida schools that NONE of you would believe.


I feel bad for the brothers at UCF, I personally know what they're going through.

[CarolinaDG]

When I was a sophomore, I went to a risk management seminar where they discussed a (real) case where everyone and their brother practically were sued. All of the alumni, the school, the greek life coordinators, etc... I think in those cases people are just looking for anyone to blame, and it gets skimmed down by the courts as to who actually is liable. I think they did this to scare us out of doing anything that would get the alumnae sued, plus it included ALL of the officers of the fraternity, even the ones who weren't present for the incident.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by CarolinaDG
When I was a sophomore, I went to a risk management seminar where they discussed a (real) case where everyone and their brother practically were sued. All of the alumni, the school, the greek life coordinators, etc... I think in those cases people are just looking for anyone to blame, and it gets skimmed down by the courts as to who actually is liable. I think they did this to scare us out of doing anything that would get the alumnae sued, plus it included ALL of the officers of the fraternity, even the ones who weren't present for the incident.

This seems to be the problem with the litigation happy public today!

Oh, my Daughter/Son would never do this without undue influence from "YOU PEOPLE".

Well, if the Parents of today kept a better leash on "Their" Kids, maybe it wouldnt have even had to happen, or on the flip side maybe they felt free to try to fly and get stupid?

As in Our Alums wanted to know why We didnt referb our house in stead of demolishing it, I tlod them plain and simple, it was dangerous, unsafe and a God Damn Fire Hazard.

We need out of it.

Yes, I am a member of House Corporation and have been for 8 years.

Maybe litigation is the reason so many Organizations are having problems getting volunteers, is becasue of law suits.


Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Goys/Girls Clubs of America, Adoption Agencys and so on.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by CarolinaDG
BUT it always makes me wonder why we're so quick to blame a fraternity for a fraternity member's drug use. If everyone in my sorority smoked weed, and I didn't want to smoke it, I wouldn't smoke it. It is tragic that this happened, I just wish the blame wouldn't go straight to the fraternity.

True, there should be personal accountability, and I totally agree with that.

However, I think the fraternity chapter should also be held liable if the statements turn out to be true after the full investigation. While it is true that we can walk away and just not smoke pot or whatever, if we are being forced to do so, well, that is another story entirely. Aren't drugs like these addictive too? What if, in a hypothetical world his drug habit started out w/ the fraternity and he got hooked? Of course these are hypothetical situations, and we won't really know for sure, but it's possible.

I think perhaps another reason why people are so quick to blame Greeks is because of the standard that has been set. We are supposed to be the "cream of the crop" -- the ones who can balance scholastics, work, community service, social, and everything else. So obviously when stuff like this happens -- Greeks dying of alcohol poisoning, over-dosing on drugs, or hazing or whatever, of course people are going to point fingers. Most all sororities (not sure about fraternities) have explicit rules prohibiting certain behavior -- underage drinking and doing drugs included... so of course when these events happen, and it possibly causes something bigger -- like alcohol poisoning deaths, suicide or whatever, people WILL point. I know it's one of those things that will probably never be fixed though, because there will always be the "bad apples" of the bunch that ruin it for everyone else.

[alphaalpha]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by texas*princess
[B]True, there should be personal accountability, and I totally agree with that.

Dittto

I think perhaps another reason why people are so quick to blame Greeks is because of the standard that has been set. We are supposed to be the "cream of the crop" --

I disagree here. I know many people who have the attitude of greeks are a bunch of people who drink and haze and therfore will blame greeks for anything. IE, oh look its a drug related death, i think that frats are involved cause greeks do things like that.

Could just be my experience, but hey after all. Its my 2 cents.
d

[Rudey]

This is still on my mind. I know the chances are low that alums are sued but still...

-Rudey

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by alphaalpha
I disagree here. I know many people who have the attitude of greeks are a bunch of people who drink and haze and therfore will blame greeks for anything. IE, oh look its a drug related death, i think that frats are involved cause greeks do things like that.

Could just be my experience, but hey after all. Its my 2 cents.
d

Yea I think that is the experience of many people. but if you think about it I hardly doubt some of our founders started our GLOs to be known as the hazers, drinkers, druggies on campus. I didn't mean my previous post to be a "literal" thing.. just one of those idealistic ones.

I know this is waaaaaaaaaay on a whole other plane.. probably not even reality, because this "ideal" probably never will happen in every single member in every single chapter. How many of us have GLOs that have a "purpose" or "mission statement" or "creeds"? Do you see "hazers, drinkers, druggies... etc" anywhere in there? Probably not. It's not so much what we are or what some chapters are, but what we're supposed to be and what our organizations were created to help us become.

====
Take the ADPi Creed for example (these are just going to be a few snippets to make a point... ):

"I believe that the principles established by our founders in 1851 are enduring attributes, exemplifying the highest ideals of Christian womanhood.

I believe that our motto, "We live for each other," expresses the true spirit of fraternity; and that by living this motto my life will be enriched by true friendships and by unselfish service to mankind.

I believe that I must strive to become a well-balanced person by following the dictates of the four points symbolized by our diamond-shaped badge: first, strengthening my own character and personality; second, watching my attitudes toward my fellow-beings; third, recognizing the value of high educational standards; and fourth, developing faith and loyalty.

====

While I know this is an "ideal" and not neccessarily always something you see in every single member of every single chapter, I personally think this could be a reason people are quick to point fingers and blame everything on Greeks. Here we are - members of organizations that are there to foster and enrich the lives of people... and there are members out there hazing or doing other dumb things that give the rest of Greeks a bad name.

I'm not saying we can't have fun and go "party" or whatever, because after all, we are "social" organizations, but gosh... it's just really sad what some people do to the people who are supposed to be "carrying the torch" in the future.

We don't need to babysit each other 24/7, but there's nothing wrong with showing concern when you know something w/ your brother/sister isn't right.

Apparently it's just not possible for some chapters to have an enjoyable collegiate Greek experience without breaking every single Risk Management rule. What's worse is that people don't seem to learn from other chapter's experiences, and that's terrible. How many threads do we get here each month about hazing incidents, alcohol poisoning deaths, etc.?

[alphaalpha]

I do wish that my chapter would have lived more by the vows that we took at initiantion (not saying what they are, of course). I am just saying that i think that people blame greeks cause they have this opinion that Greeks act like this, ie hazing, drinking, ect.

I don't haze, never participated in hazing. I actually left my first university because they hazed. however they called it dorm initiation and said that it was not hazing cause the students agreed to particiapte. however, this same university that allowed this dorm initiation to occure would not allow greek organizations on campus because they (greek letter organizations) hazed and had curruped (sp) morals.

I am just saying that people think that greeks will do horrid things and they cant see anything else, even if there were 100 women who didnt drink, do drugs or anything, but there was one that was caught the rest of the greeks would have the reputation of being like the one. I hate this and think that it is really really closed minded of people, but that is just what i see in this world. I dont like it, nor do i understand it. I wish that people can see and would take the time to see the truth and not the sterotypes.

And as far as what you were talking about your creed. i agree. my sorority is based on religious values and i wish that more people cared more about the values that their organizations were founded on and less on the partying and more negative aspects of greek life.

well, now that i have said all that i think that we are saying similar things but maybe approaching it from different sides.
debbie

[Tom Earp]

Basically, if We as Greek Organizations do not Police ourselves, the The Schools will step in not with a velvet glove but an iron fist.


A few people who break the ideals usually are the ones who destroy a whole chapter. But, if a chapter has ongoing problems then someone will come in and resolve the situation to their satisfaction, not ours as an organization.