Please Tell Me This Is A Sick Joke

[Wine&SilverBlue]

AGDee -- I have Crohn's too.

~~~~~~~
This reminds me of a new group on campus -- "Wash U Prayer." They are modeled after "Wash U Party" (an AIM screen name by that name that advertises parties that people submit).

Anyway, you IM "Wash U Prayer" with your problem and a group of students will pray for you so that it will get better. They advertised like crazy all over campus at the beginning of the year as a way to deal with depression, roommate problems, homesickness, suicidal thoughts, rape, etc.

I admit that as a member of Wash U's student run peer counseling group (with walk in hours and 24 hour beeper service) I am biased, but I'm afraid that some people might decide to only use this group as an alternative to getting help for real issues.

Prayer might help, but I think that in most cases prayer should be an addition to counseling, medication, etc -- not a substitution.

ETA: In the April Fool's Day issue of my school's paper one year they did a spoof article in which EST (the student run emergency service team) was replaced by a group that would just pray for you instead of giving any medical treatment.. story didn't go over too well though.

[Rudey]

Whatever this person's personal views...

Are they trying to pass them on others? Has there been any indication of it?

I can't imagine girls not being on the pill...that would be awful, but probably pretty good for the jimmy hat companies.

-Rudey

[AKA_Monet]

Although as a responsible research scientist and I would be unable to condone using a form of prayer to SOLELY treat any horrendous illness, there are scientific research articles in top journals that show the benefits of prayer (and meditation) to relieve pain, induce a "trance like" status and "the power of positive thinking". The psychologists call it the PLACEBO effect and most clinical trials for new experimental drugs include the "sugar pills" in randomized patients...

I have never seen an athetist turn very quickly to spiritual or agnostic when hit with a chronic or terminal illness... I guess the absoluteness of death permeates one's psyche when faced with it's ultimate occurrence...

So in some ways, prayer or meditation (and the research that I am referring to studied with Zen Buddhists monks), has some relevency to the overall "quality of life" issues with seriously ill people...

Look, say what you want, but I just had the opportunity to see a man in the critical care unit hooked up on 50 machines to test if his heart could handle a surgical procedure... The M.D.'s found that he cannot... So there is something to be said about how one lives there life and the stress it causes...

Stress reduction is what?

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
I have yet to see prayer heal someone of cancer or AIDS, so obviously God must love watching people suffer and die.

Perhaps you haven't seen it, personally...

Anyway, with regard to the issue, the Bible tells us explicitly to help ourselves. But part of that is we are to be prayed for and pray for ourselves. The people who refuse to see a doctor and rely only on prayer are those called fools in the Bible. This is not to say that God will not heal. BUT, God does things on His own time, in His own way - so, we are to pray hard and accept what God gives us.

Believe me, a Christian with incurable, painful cancer is much better off with God than suffering on earth. It is ALWAYS better to be with God than to be on earth!

Originally posted by Munchkin03
Obviously, unless you think it's okay for someone to put faith over reason when dealing with the health of other people.

OBVIOUSLY............sorry, geez.............

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by Wine&SilverBlue
AGDee -- I have Crohn's too.

~~~~~~~
This reminds me of a new group on campus -- "Wash U Prayer." They are modeled after "Wash U Party" (an AIM screen name by that name that advertises parties that people submit).

Anyway, you IM "Wash U Prayer" with your problem and a group of students will pray for you so that it will get better. They advertised like crazy all over campus at the beginning of the year as a way to deal with depression, roommate problems, homesickness, suicidal thoughts, rape, etc.

I admit that as a member of Wash U's student run peer counseling group (with walk in hours and 24 hour beeper service) I am biased, but I'm afraid that some people might decide to only use this group as an alternative to getting help for real issues.

Prayer might help, but I think that in most cases prayer should be an addition to counseling, medication, etc -- not a substitution.

ETA: In the April Fool's Day issue of my school's paper one year they did a spoof article in which EST (the student run emergency service team) was replaced by a group that would just pray for you instead of giving any medical treatment.. story didn't go over too well though.

In the Iowa State Daily today:

Grieving over a pet?

The Pet Loss Support Hotline can be reached toll-free at 1-888-ISU-PLSH.

It is available 6 to 9 p.m. seven days a week from September to April and

6 to 9 p.m. Monday, Wednesday and Friday

from May to August.

[Wine&SilverBlue]

Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
In the Iowa State Daily today:

I'm not sure what you meant by that... but I'll repeat that I'm completely in support of a hotline that you can call to talk out your problems.

Luckily when my appendix ruptured a few years back I received prompt medical treatment instead of the doctors leaving me there in pain and "praying" for me to get better.

[SoProud2BeAnAlphaXi]

I've also gotten a couple of e-mail alerts about this guy over time, one of which was really just outdated, so I did some further searching when I saw this. It's hard to come by sources on this that are objectively credible/likely to be even-handed. However, I did find a couple of items on a website purportedly maintained by a woman who is pro-choice (forgive the length) -- give it whatever credit you feel it's due:

"A girlfriend sent me information on how to protest Dr. David Hager's appointment to the FDA committee. Some of the accusations made against this man sounded incredible. Could any doctor in this day and age really refuse to prescribe contraceptives to unmarried women? Had anybody asked him? So I emailed Dr. Hager and asked. I never expected a reply. He surprised me. I feel that his answer deserves to appear on the internet. I have requested his permission and he has said that I may post his response. Here is what he told me:

"Linda, this is all old stuff. The committee appointment is ongoing. We just finished meeting about making Plan B (emergency contraception) an over the counter medication. I will attach my comments.
David Hager"

"May I begin by telling you that no one who has written about me or broadcast information about me has ever interviewed me. The information being disseminated is rumor and innuendo. I am pro-life and believe in the sanctity of human life.

"I participated in the Citizens Petition to the FDA asking that RU-486 be withdrawn temporarily from the market until further investigation could be done out of my concern for the health and well-being of women and their unborn children. Mifeprex was approved under an Accelerated Approval Process, Subpart H, that has been reserved exclusively for anti-AIDS and anti-cancer drugs and an antihypertensive agent. All medications that are life saving, which mifeprex is not. The FDA always requires one or more than one randomized, controlled trials before approving a drug. There were none for mifeprex (RU-486). The nonrandomized, uncontrolled trials that were done insisted on the woman having an ultrasound scan to locate the pregnancy and insure that it was not outside the uterus (an ectopic pregnancy). The guidelines for use now do not require such a scan and we have reports already of death and morbidity from ruptured ectopic pregnancies since the symptoms of a ruptured ectopic and abortion from mifeprex are the same; abdominal pain and bleeding. The FDA requires that medications that may be used in children and adolescents be studied in those groups before approval (The Pediatric Rule) and this was not done with mifeprex. There have been two seriously infected 15 year olds. Finally, in studies reported to date, among women who fail to abort after receiving mifeprex (and this occurs 5-8% of the time when administered up to 7 weeks gestation) there have been limb deformities and absent limbs. I feel that the drug needs further study. Searle Laboratories, the manufacturer of misoprostol (the second drug taken after mifepristone) has issued a medical alert asking that the drug never be used in pregnant women due to risks of cardiovascular problems. There has been a fatal heart attack in France and a non-fatal one here in a 21 year old.

"Regarding contraception, I advise all of my non-married patients that abstinence is the best way to avoid non-marital pregnancy and STDs. If she insists on being sexually active or is already active, I advise the use of birth control pills and condoms as well. I do not believe that standard dose birth control pills are abortifacient, and have never written that. There is a chapter in a book I co-edited, that purports this idea, but it was included in our book to offer an alternative opinion, not because we believed the idea. Since when is it wrong to offer alternative opinions?

"Regarding my management and writing about stress-related disorders in women, I have always offered a holistic approach to therapy. I suggest diet/exercise changes, medications as needed, counseling when required, and meditation/prayer. This is very distasteful to NOW and Planned Parenthood.
I hope this helps you and enables you to see how "horrible" I am in the eyes of the organizations you mention as encouraging me not to serve this Administration.
W. David Hager, M.D."

And from the same website:
"In researching Dr. Hager, I came across a Time article which claimed that he had refused to talk to them. Dr. Hager added, "Time called while I was out of the office on a speaking engagement and therefore said that I did not return their calls. Thank you for your kind support." Dr. David Hager"

"2/17/03 Update:

"My appointment has been confirmed and announced now. Have done some interviews. Still being criticized by Planned Parenthood, National Organization for Women, and the National Abortion Rights League. Still being considered to be too pro-life, and too conservative for them. I had not been interviewed by any of the writers who had written about me and yet they said that I would not prescribe birth control pills to single women and that all I prescribed for premenstrual syndrome and stress disorders was prayer, both of which are not true.
To your readers I would say that I am a scientist who is a man of faith and in my opinion both can be combined. I have always objectively evaluated data and arrived at decisions based on that objective evaluation. We all have biases, but that does not prevent me from making wise decisions about the health and well-being of women and their families." Dr. David Hager

"From Dr. Hager's patient, Tina, posted 3/3/3:

"I think that I can shed light on this topic. Dr. Hager was my OB/GYN for 8 years. I started going to him when I was 19 years old and I was single. I was put on birth control pills to control my periods. I know of several other single women who were put on birth control pills for contraceptive purposes. In all of the years that I have been affiliated with his practice -- all the women in my family have gone to him over the course of the last 15 years -- he has never once brought his religion into play when diagnosing or treating illnesses. I have had plenty of female problems and not once was I told to go home and pray about it. I was given benefit of the latest medical treatments and was treated with dignity and respect. Dr. Hager quickly diagnosed my PCOS and endometriosis and I was given the standard treatments of hormonal supplements, surgery, Glucophage, pain killers, and eventually Clomid. The only times that I have witnessed religion in his practice is when he said a prayer with me before each of my surgeries as well as before each delivery he has ever done. While I have not read the book that you quoted, I have read "Stress and the Woman's Body" and there is a suggestion that women become in tune with the spiritual side of life as a way to help certain ailments. Never does he say to do this in place of modern medicine. It is a part of a holistic approach. You must treat the mind, soul and body. What he recommends is no different than if some doctor suggested that for high blood pressure, you take these pills and also attend a yoga class once a week or try meditation. It's just that Dr. Hager recommends that you do the prescribed treatment and also seek God for his healing powers." Tina, Former patient of Dr. W. David Hager"

[_Q_]

You know, I thought that Ashcroft was as scary as it got, but you may have proven me wrong. Do you suppose this guy also anoints himself with Crisco oil?