Death this morning at OU

[exlurker]

Originally posted by ktsnake
. . . .
I can only hope that this gets GLO's around the country to wake up to this problem. . . .

While I share that hope, I can't help feeling that if years and years of efforts by BACCHUS and GAMMA, MADD, SADD, and many, many others -- not to mention individual Greek organization's own risk management programming -- haven't done the trick, the recent deaths may not have much effect either. I hope I'm wrong.

[33girl]

This whole country needs to rethink its puritanical attitude on alcohol.

We need to educate our children how to enjoy alcohol responsibly, how to know when you've had enough, and how not to use it as a badge of honor or coolness or what have you. We need to show our children that drinking is not a crime - no matter what the age - but drinking irresponsibly is. We need to do whatever it takes to remove the "forbidden fruit" aspect of alcohol. We need to educate on this as certainly as we educate kids on how to escape a burning building, how to avoid abduction and how to drive.

The "stay far far away from alcohol until you turn 21, and then automatically know what you're doing" obviously doesn't work. How much longer do we have to put up with it and how many more deaths have to happen before everyone realizes that our present system goes completely against a normal learning process for adolescents and young adults?

[Buttonz]

I don't get it. Why are people so stupid? If someone is to drunk and can't handle a shot or a drink, why make him feelbad till he takes it?

When you go out to a bar with your sisters or brothers or friends, or even if your dirnking in a house, make sure there is at least one person sober there so they know when to cut off people who are to drunk. We always make sure that least one person stays sober.

There have been way to many deaths this fall due to alchol.



Thoughts and prayers go out ot his family, friends, and the chapter.

[Munchkin03]

This is so sad.

My heartfelt condolences go out to his friends, family, and the entire U. Oklahoma community.

[IvySpice]

I'd say something along the lines of, "Well, maybe people will learn something from this." But it's clear that they won't. The night this happened, there were several major news stories already kicking around. If the stories of deaths two weeks ago, one state away, weren't enough to motivate the OU students involved to act responsibly, then this additional death won't make any difference to the next victim, either. There's got to be some other way, because what we're doing isn't working.

[AlphaSigOU]

Back in my younger days as an undergraduate at the University of Oklahoma, many fraternity parties used to be open to the public and awash in copious quantities of 3.2 beer. Today, with third-party insurance rules and other restrictions on the sale and serving of alcohol, those days are but a distant memory.

However, the effects of alcohol abuse continues to rear its ugly head everytime a pledge or a member of a fraternity or sorority gets thoroughly drunk or dies from alcohol poisoning. For the media, all you hafta say is the magic words 'alcohol' and 'fraternity' and they'll be swarming at the scene looking for an exclusive.

I wouldn't be surprised if OU President Boren enacts some kind of very strict alcohol rules upon the Greek community, with severe penalties for violations, up to and including the revocation of charters. In OU's highly competitive Greek system, losing a chapter can be devastating, with recolonization taking years to accomplish.

Kids these days, like in my day, consider themselves 'bulletproof' ("It can't happen to me, I know how to handle my liquor..." (Famous last words...)) While I don't advocate neo-prohibitionism by going totally dry, both alumni and undergraduates need to enforce the rules enacted by the national fraternity and the university.

[PsychTau]

My husband (who's a Sigma Chi) and I have discussed this all morning. I know that I NEVER drank enough to become very ill, vomit, or not remember what I did the night before. Why did I have such "restraint"?

Because I would be MORTIFIED if I threw up in front of other people (or pee on myself, or poop on myself as I have seen others do intoxicated). I mean embarassed enough to never show my face again. Seriously....not to mention that vomiting is not the most pleasant thing in the world...I hated even the possibility of being nauseous. So I would drink enough to get a good buzz, and when my stomach said "No more!" I stopped. There was only one or two nights that I drank entirely too much (and knew I had overstepped my bounds) but even those nights I never got sick and I remember what happened.

However, it seems like vomiting in front of others (or peeing on yourself, or falling down a flight of stairs, whatever) isn't embarassing or mortifying. It's a "funny story" to "remember our sisters/brothers by". A great "remember when". Therefore, when it happens to someone the embarassment isn't enough to keep them from getting to that point again. Instead, the attention and laughs they get may encourage them to get that drunk again and again.

(I know that we don't know the situation at OU, and I'm not assuming that any of the above motivators were present in this incident. I'm just speaking about my alcohol experience in the past. Sorry to get all "psychological" on you!!)

PsychTau

[IowaStatePhiPsi]

Originally posted by PKTKKG
This is so sad. I think this is the 4th death so far this fall from alcohol poisioning. This has got to stop!

4th known alcohol poisoning death in the greek system- about 8th or 9th in alcohol poisoning deaths overall in colleges/universities in the US this fall.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by 33girl
This whole country needs to rethink its puritanical attitude on alcohol.

We need to educate our children how to enjoy alcohol responsibly, how to know when you've had enough, and how not to use it as a badge of honor or coolness or what have you. We need to show our children that drinking is not a crime - no matter what the age - but drinking irresponsibly is. We need to do whatever it takes to remove the "forbidden fruit" aspect of alcohol. We need to educate on this as certainly as we educate kids on how to escape a burning building, how to avoid abduction and how to drive.

The "stay far far away from alcohol until you turn 21, and then automatically know what you're doing" obviously doesn't work. How much longer do we have to put up with it and how many more deaths have to happen before everyone realizes that our present system goes completely against a normal learning process for adolescents and young adults?

EXACTLY. If universities and organizations enact more and tougher rules in response to these deaths, I think it's only going to make things worse.

These tragic events have nothing to do with the greek system, with universities, with bars (now some people in Boulder Colorado are trying to stop new liquor licenses from being issued near campus) or with anything that happens at school. The problems start well before that -- nobody drinks because he's in a fraternity, but I bet people who are more inclined to drink are more likely to join a fraternity (people seem to think that being in a fraternity causes drinking, but forget that correlation does not imply causation). Education about drinking should start at home before kids are even old enough to be thinking about college. It's unrealistic and -- really, deadly -- to send kids off to school with no idea how to control their drinking.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by IvySpice
I'd say something along the lines of, "Well, maybe people will learn something from this." But it's clear that they won't. The night this happened, there were several major news stories already kicking around. If the stories of deaths two weeks ago, one state away, weren't enough to motivate the OU students involved to act responsibly, then this additional death won't make any difference to the next victim, either. There's got to be some other way, because what we're doing isn't working.

Unfortunately, I agree.

What we have seen recently is the almost automatic suspension of chapter charters when something like this happens. Some always say that the university has rushed to judgement -- but in the end the suspension is almost always justified.

We have to stop sweeping this under the nearest carpet and admit that alcohol is a HUGE problem for college aged people. It's not entirely a Greek problem, but one we need to take the lead on because of the perception that it is.

I am on record here as being in favor of lowering the drinking age for beer to 18. But that would only solve the "legal" issues of most of the underage drinking.

The problems go much deeper. We and the colleges are inheriting kids who are drinking heavily in high school (Pot, meet kettle -- I was a poster child for this myself years ago). The anti-drinking campaigns and education need to start much earlier. They should continue -- not only in the Greek System but in the rest of college life.

In the end, though, I'm not convinced that no matter how good a program is that it makes much difference. Kids still think they're bulletproff.

Take a look at the threads on GC. Every time something of this nature happens, you send your prayers, you send your condolences, you send your thoughts, you send your best wishes to the family, chapter, fraternity, university and friends.

Then you post about how wasted you got last night.

By the way, I say "you" when I would generally say "we" because I have become a very small part of this equation. No matter how much I (we alums) rant and rave, nothing is going to be accomplished until there is peer group pressure for moderation.

The university sends out grief counselors, but are the bars any less crowded that night? Are there less pitchers on the tables?

There are some good programs in place, but none was effective in the four most recent fatalities. Designated drivers wouldn't have helped, there were no fatal traffic accidents. Checking ID's wouldn't help -- these didn't happen at party-type functions but rather at pledge events or just sitting around drinking. In all but one of the four fraternity related incidents, the victim was underage.

Here's what could happen: Harsh crackdowns by the university, the police and by the national organizations. Dry Housing -- absolutely enforced. Automatic suspension or expulsion of chapters. Heavy fines or expulsions of individual offenders by schools. Zero tolerance of underage drinking.

Here's what else could happen. Peer pressure for moderation. Social instead of binge drinking. Obeyance of the law. Truely working together with the university administration instead of "arms length" negotiations when the school is made to force its hand. A hard look inside at the kind of culture at your chapter or school, and ways to change it if needed.

Holding high the standards of our organizations, founders and rituals.

So what happens now? Do you (we) become pro-active in saving lives, or do these tragic events lose their impact over time -- fade into the background of our memory until another one occurs?

This has been written in deep frustration by the father of two older and one college age children -- who has had to participate in a "candle light vigil" for a young brother in one of the chapters he had advised.

Enough is enough.

Or maybe too much.

[MysticCat]

Very well said, DeltAlum.

The only thing that I would add is that GLOs need to take the lead not only because of the perception that alcohol abuse is particularly a Greek problem, but perhaps more importantly because we bill ourselves as the leaders of campus communities, as the cream of the crop, and as groups who care about community service.

Here's a needed community service staring us in the face. Can we put our money (and efforts) where our mouths are and take it on by leading?

[AOIIBrandi]

Originally posted by 33girl
This whole country needs to rethink its puritanical attitude on alcohol.

We need to educate our children how to enjoy alcohol responsibly, how to know when you've had enough, and how not to use it as a badge of honor or coolness or what have you. We need to show our children that drinking is not a crime - no matter what the age - but drinking irresponsibly is. We need to do whatever it takes to remove the "forbidden fruit" aspect of alcohol. We need to educate on this as certainly as we educate kids on how to escape a burning building, how to avoid abduction and how to drive.

The "stay far far away from alcohol until you turn 21, and then automatically know what you're doing" obviously doesn't work. How much longer do we have to put up with it and how many more deaths have to happen before everyone realizes that our present system goes completely against a normal learning process for adolescents and young adults?

Co-sign, I have felt this way for a very long time.

[exlurker]

Station KTOK's web site now contains this recent information from the police and the medical examiner:

"Friday, October 1, 2004 at 3:05pm

Norman police say 19-year old Blake Hammontree, found dead Thursday at an OU Fraternity house died of acute ethanol intoxication. His blood alcohol content was more than five times the legal limit to be considered a DUI driver.

Norman police confirm a 19-year old University of Oklahoma fraternity pledge literally drank himself to death. Blake Hammontree died of what olice call 'acute ethanol intoxication'.
A statement from Norman police stated the Medical Examiner's office made the determination and found Hammontree's blood alcohol content was .42.
The legal limit to be considered a drunk driver in Oklahoma is .08
"The Norman Police Department is investigating this as a homicide, as they would any other unattended death," said the statement released shortly before 2pm today."

[navane]

NATIONAL COLLEGIATE ALCOHOL AWARENESS WEEK • OCTOBER 17-23, 2004 •


Hi everyone,

As a Student Affairs Professional, it saddens me to see students making choices which negatively impact their lives. Drinking too much is never a good idea.

Every year I receive publicity materials for National Collegiate Alcohol Awareness Week. I would encourage you all to find a few facts about alcohol awareness and present them during one of your meetings or just hang up a fact sheet of some sort on your chapter's bulletin board. Make it relevant to your chapter members by adding that this information comes at the right time given the recent deaths of Greeks on other college campuses.

This website may be helpful to you:

http://www.collegedrinkingprevention.gov/students/

Please don't just say, "Oh how sad for those kids that died".... DO SOMETHING. Stop thinking that these events are just some distant occurances. They can happen to YOU or to a well-loved member of YOUR chapter. At your next opportunity, look around at your brothers or sisters. Imagine what it would be like if you woke up tomorrow and a member was found dead in the chapter house. Would that be fun? Would that be "cool"? Of course not, it would be terribly sad, confusing and devastating. And for what? Because people didn't want to make smart choices about alcohol? Because none of the other members thought enough to look after the ones who had too much to drink?

You could lose your life, a friend, and/or your chapter's charter. It's time for us all to really stop and think about what we're doing.

.....Kelly

[kk_bama]

Navane,

I just used the Blood Alcohol Educator on the Web site you gave us, and I found out that four light beers in two hours just puts me over the legal limit to drive.

I had no idea! I would recommend using the site. You put in your sex and weight and choose what to drink, and it will tell you your BAC.