Breaking news: It happens again.

[DeltAlum]

Schools, like any other business, go into Risk Management/Damage Control mode when something like this happens.

It's a larger version of what your car insurance agent tells you if you are involved in an accident:

"Don't admit guilt."

[IvySpice]

Actually I went to Harvard, but I do know that story from Penn. I think you have some of the facts off, though -- he was served at an official FIJI alumni pig roast as well as elsewhere with his brothers, and the FIJIs were not "expelled" by Penn -- they voluntarily voted to surrender their charter during an investigation by their own nationals, which had suspended them following the incident.

http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vn...9?in_archive=1

Everyone who is being sued in any situation tries to put the blame elsewhere. That's what being sued is all about. NO ONE, including any fraternity I've ever heard of, takes responsibility for a death when they aren't forced to; they'd be out of business in a year if they did. Fraternities are just as worried about liability as universities are; that's why they close chapters with "risk management" problems. "Risk management" is a euphemism for "You fools are going to get our asses sued, and we don't want to be held responsible for anybody's death."

If a fraternity member drinks on campus and dies on campus then the school blames the fraternity because it was their member.

Can you tell me some times when this has happened? Anyone here can name multiple drinking deaths in fraternity houses from the last few years off the tops of their heads, but kids drinking themselves into a stupor in a dorm and then dying in a dorm just doesn't happen very much, because dorms are almost always dry and almost always have adult supervision with real teeth. The fraternities that follow that policy don't have problems with this.

Edited to add: the fraternities that follow that policy include all NPC sororities, and note that (for example) Chi O is not being blamed/sued for the death of its former member in Colorado. NPC sorority houses are struck by lightning a lot more than they host alcohol-related deaths.

[Rudey]

Isn't this school in the news for being a huge party school with lots of bingers?

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
Isn't this school in the news for being a huge party school with lots of bingers?

Assuming you mean Colorado (Boulder), the answer is yes.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Assuming you mean Colorado (Boulder), the answer is yes.

Fine, here is where I'm going to start.

How big is the Greek system at a school like this?

Do people see the risks associated with this school?

Do Greeks see it and still continue to operate, etc. there?

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
Fine, here is where I'm going to start.

How big is the Greek system at a school like this?

Do people see the risks associated with this school?

Do Greeks see it and still continue to operate, etc. there?

-Rudey

Some excellent questions.

According to the CU webpage, there are 15 active fraternities and 10 active sororities. There were several listed as apparantely inactive. There are about 2,700 GLO members.

I think what people "see" in Colorado is the beautiful campus at the foot of the mountains and all of the outdoor activities. The school is also highly regarded in areas like Chemistry (Two Nobel Laureats on the Chem Faculity) and Aerospace Engineering. A huge number of astronauts are CU graduates -- including one each who were killed in each of the Space Shuttle disasters. Important parts of the Hubble Telescope were built in conjunction with C.U. All in all, a very good college in spectacular surroundings. A fair number of affluent students come to CU, Boulder for just these reasons.

As you asked earlier, though, it does have a party school reputation.

The relationship between the school and the Greek Community is fairly unusual. Basically, as I understand it, a few years ago (maybe 10-15) the school took a hands off attitude toward the Greek System. A lot of people read that as, "We'll give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves," and the "problem" will go away.

I can't really comment on present chapters at all. Within the past few years, there have been a number of alcohol and hazing incidents, but really probably not any more than most schools of its size. I would be interested in knowing if current members think differently since I'm really looking from the outside.

Delt had a huge presence on the CU campus (Beta Kappa Chapter) for many years, but after a number of alcohol and drug related incidents and the trashing of one of the most beautiful Greek houses I've ever seen, closed the chapter for a third time, I doubt that we will ever recolonize there. Local alumni had raised over $1.5 million to refurbish it only months before. Clearly, we think there's too much risk and baggage to go back there. A former very high ranking alumni officer told me that the chapters were (paraphrasing) a bunch of rich, drug using, alcoholic ski bums.

I was on the adjunct faculty (School of Journalism) there for several years and would say that that's unfair in regard to the student body as a whole. The chapter was gone by the time I taught there, but older alumni members of the chapter were highly disappointed in what it had turned into, and many of them would not support an attempt to recolonize either. To what extent our former experiences match the rest of the Greek System, I couldn't say.

It's sad to walk by the old Shelter with the Delt letters carved in stone above the front door and think how badly my former brothers screwed this up. The house now belongs to the university and is used for Continuing Education offices.

I hope that's a fairly ballanced and accurate snapshot -- but again, not having anything officially to do with the university or Greek System there, it's only an outside view.

[Rudey]

Is it a school where even if Greeks didn't exist, the partying would be done and it would be done hard? I am thinking so.

This is basically what I'm talking about. So many national fraternities are rushing to show how many chapters they have and to say how large they are and it seems they are just too damn ignorant to see what kind of risk they keep taking on.

I had cousing that went to that school and I think they're just living off the family since graduating.

-Rudey

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Some excellent questions.

According to the CU webpage, there are 15 active fraternities and 10 active sororities. There were several listed as apparantely inactive. There are about 2,700 GLO members.

I think what people "see" in Colorado is the beautiful campus at the foot of the mountains and all of the outdoor activities. The school is also highly regarded in areas like Chemistry (Two Nobel Laureats on the Chem Faculity) and Aerospace Engineering. A huge number of astronauts are CU graduates -- including one each who were killed in each of the Space Shuttle disasters. Important parts of the Hubble Telescope were built in conjunction with C.U. All in all, a very good college in spectacular surroundings. A fair number of affluent students come to CU, Boulder for just these reasons.

As you asked earlier, though, it does have a party school reputation.

The relationship between the school and the Greek Community is fairly unusual. Basically, as I understand it, a few years ago (maybe 10-15) the school took a hands off attitude toward the Greek System. A lot of people read that as, "We'll give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves," and the "problem" will go away.

I can't really comment on present chapters at all. Within the past few years, there have been a number of alcohol and hazing incidents, but really probably not any more than most schools of its size. I would be interested in knowing if current members think differently since I'm really looking from the outside.

Delt had a huge presence on the CU campus (Beta Kappa Chapter) for many years, but after a number of alcohol and drug related incidents and the trashing of one of the most beautiful Greek houses I've ever seen, closed the chapter for a third time, I doubt that we will ever recolonize there. Local alumni had raised over $1.5 million to refurbish it only months before. Clearly, we think there's too much risk and baggage to go back there. A former very high ranking alumni officer told me that the chapters were (paraphrasing) a bunch of rich, drug using, alcoholic ski bums.

I was on the adjunct faculty (School of Journalism) there for several years and would say that that's unfair in regard to the student body as a whole. The chapter was gone by the time I taught there, but older alumni members of the chapter were highly disappointed in what it had turned into, and many of them would not support an attempt to recolonize either. To what extent our former experiences match the rest of the Greek System, I couldn't say.

It's sad to walk by the old Shelter with the Delt letters carved in stone above the front door and think how badly my former brothers screwed this up. The house now belongs to the university and is used for Continuing Education offices.

I hope that's a fairly ballanced and accurate snapshot -- but again, not having anything officially to do with the university or Greek System there, it's only an outside view.

[trojangal]

Unfortunately, the schools always seem to catch some heat. In May 2003, there was a shooting on the college campus that I taught at. We don't know all of the details and probably never will, but it was awful. The young man was a college freshman who had JUST turned 19 4 days before that.

In one organization that I am involved with, the Exec Board and the Section Coordinators we discussed a new "responsible drinking policy" where we considered asking delegates to
a) follow age guidelines according the law ( 21 and up, which almost all members are)
b) watch out for one another and to be willing to "86" someone if they had too much to drink
c) we also said that this policy could apply to other adults as well acting in behalf of the organization to show that drinking responsibly needs to happen at any age..

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
Is it a school where even if Greeks didn't exist, the partying would be done and it would be done hard? I am thinking so.

I wouldn't disagree with that assessment.

I can't speak for other national organizations, I just don't think we will go back there. In other terms, we have been about the same size for the past 8-10 years -- right around 115 chapters.

We have started colonizing smaller schools, while re-colonizing only a few of our bigger and better past chapters.

As for your cousins and other CU grads, I doubt if they're any different in terms of employment, etc. than other similar schools.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
I wouldn't disagree with that assessment.

I can't speak for other national organizations, I just don't think we will go back there. In other terms, we have been about the same size for the past 8-10 years -- right around 115 chapters.

We have started colonizing smaller schools, while re-colonizing only a few of our bigger and better past chapters.

As for your cousins and other CU grads, I doubt if they're any different in terms of employment, etc. than other similar schools.

These ski bums, what exactly do they do? I mean do they do coke and go skiing?

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Rudey
These ski bums, what exactly do they do? I mean do they do coke and go skiing?

-Rudey

Sure, and some of them become politicians, and some become jigalos (is that redundant with politician?) and some become businessmen and some astronauts, and some OD, and some grow up and some don't.

Some just hang around the hills and teach skiing in the winter and bartend in the summer.

So what does that have to do with a kid who it looks more and more like he drank himself to death?

Maybe, as has been suggested in some other threads in other forums, we should get back on topic.

[DaveSAE]

From what I understand, the person was not Greek, but rather a recruit. He was being heavily recruited by a colony there.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Sure, and some of them become politicians, and some become jigalos (is that redundant with politician?) and some become businessmen and some astronauts, and some OD, and some grow up and some don't.

Some just hang around the hills and teach skiing in the winter and bartend in the summer.

So what does that have to do with a kid who it looks more and more like he drank himself to death?

Maybe, as has been suggested in some other threads in other forums, we should get back on topic.

You're entirely right.

Getting back on topic, I believe that it is a culture at the school that needs to be attacked and eliminated because nothing Greeks can do would get rid of the problems.

-Rudey

[cuaphi]

Rudey,

To answer a couple of your questions. Greek Life is 10-12% of the school. There is a lot of partying that has nothing to do with the Greek system. Furthermore, what no one seems to know here is that CU has been a "dry" campus since 1995, my sophomore year. Alcohol is officially only allowed at third party outlets but there's been smaller, less advertised events going on in fraternity basements since..... about a week after the resolution was signed.

How many rules can they pass? How much freedom can they try to take away? It didn't work last time and it never will because kids getting their first taste of responsibility will continue to use it in all the wrong ways. I'm just sick that these kids managed to learn nothing from a young girl dying a couple of weeks and 40 miles away. They drew on his face instead of checking his vital signs. That's disgusting..... really disgusting. We need to educate the kids better about the risks of alcohol. We need to change the culture of drinking so it's not such a new and exciting thing to the average teenager and more like the European cultures. I don't think more rules is the way to do that.

As for the student population, DeltAlum's assesment was a little too right on. One of my economics professors once told me that the average income of a the parents of a CU student was about $150,000. This Chi Psi that died was from Dallas by way of a private East Coast boarding school. We're a priviledged bunch for a public school, especially the Greek system. However, lets not blame that. I've met ski bums/potheads who found their way here from UMass and BU and UMich and a thousand other places.

[cuaphi]

Originally posted by DaveSAE
From what I understand, the person was not Greek, but rather a recruit. He was being heavily recruited by a colony there.

Chi Psi has had a continual presence on campus since 1929. However, they were without IFC recognition but with charter most of the time I was an undergrad there.