Your definition of hazing...

[sairose]

Originally posted by Imperial1
O that is definitely forbidden in my org. Pledges shouldn't wear the letters if they don't know the meaning of them nor have they been given rites of passage to do so.

Imperial1

It is in many orgs. Out of curiosity, is this your org's national policy? I ask because I was curious which all organizations DO have this. SAI does for certain; I believe APO does? And I wondered about NPHC and other cultural orgs because I know they frown upon it like SAI does and I was wondering if this is also a national policy.

[Imperial1]

Originally posted by sairose
It is in many orgs. Out of curiosity, is this your org's national policy? I ask because I was curious which all organizations DO have this. SAI does for certain; I believe APO does? And I wondered about NPHC and other cultural orgs because I know they frown upon it like SAI does and I was wondering if this is also a national policy.

I think just about every nphc org does not allow pledges/MIP'ers to wear the letters. They aren't Kappas/Alphas/Zetas/Omegas/Deltas/Iotas/AKAs/Sigmas/SGRho's until they have crossed and finished their MIP process.

Imperial1

[naraht]

Rules on pledges wearing letters are determinted by the individual chapters, but generally discouraged. Petitioning Group (what we call Colonies) members are allowed to wear letters if there is something on the letters stating that is for a Petitioning Group.

Randy

[Gorilla Tom]

My fraternity, Lambda Chi Alpha, includes any activity that would make a distinction between an associate member and an initiated member an act of hazing.

I am a "mature" greek, and I take exception to that definition. I was not an associate member. I was a "pledge". I had no problem with that. I was required to wear my pledge pin and keep a pledge book with me at all times. The pledge book was a small loose-leaf notebook in which I was, during the course of my pledge semester, required to get a signature and personal information (local address & phone, permanent address, girlfriends name, pin #, etc.). I thought it was a great way to make sure that I met every member of our chapter before I was initiated. I was required to enter the house through the back door, unless I was accompanying a guest. We had pledge class meetings, pledge class officers, and every week we took a test on fraternity policy, history, etc. None of what I have just described is allowed today. It's all considered hazing.

I would be curious as to what some of you under-grads think of this. I feel that most of our young guys are missing out on something. I felt when I was initiated that I had earned my membership. I had paid not only literal dues, but had figureatively "paid my dues" as well. I never felt demeaned. I felt then, as I do now, that there were legitimate reasons for the things I was required to do. It seems like the experience that a lot of you have to day is like "fraternity light".

I am amazed at the number of young people who join GLOs and end up dropping their membership. I'm definitely old school, and I think you appreciate something more when you earn it. I wonder if that' s part of the reason that kids drop. They had their membership handed to them.

So am I just an old guy hopelessly out of touch with reality, or does my point make any sense?

[starang21]

Originally posted by Imperial1
I think just about every nphc org does not allow pledges/MIP'ers to wear the letters. They aren't Kappas/Alphas/Zetas/Omegas/Deltas/Iotas/AKAs/Sigmas/SGRho's until they have crossed and finished their MIP process.

Imperial1

i wish someone would. folks need to understand protocol.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by Gorilla Tom
So am I just an old guy hopelessly out of touch with reality, or does my point make any sense?

I suppose the answer to your question depends on what went on during your entire pledge process.

In the end, though, it doesn't matter because the GLO's and the laws have spoken and must be obeyed if a chapter wants to keep its charter.

[Gorilla Tom]

My pledge semester was one of my best in the fraternity. We were, and remain, the largest class (28) in our chapter's history. I think part of the reason it was so special to me was that we were working towards a common goal. Everything that we did, in my mind anyway, was about learning about our fraternity, learning about the men we were going to call brothers for the next four years. There was never anything demeaning asked of us or done to us. We received our charter on the same weekend my class was initiated, which I think is another reason that period of my life is so special to me.

[Imperial1]

Originally posted by Gorilla Tom
My pledge semester was one of my best in the fraternity. We were, and remain, the largest class (28) in our chapter's history. I think part of the reason it was so special to me was that we were working towards a common goal. Everything that we did, in my mind anyway, was about learning about our fraternity, learning about the men we were going to call brothers for the next four years. There was never anything demeaning asked of us or done to us. We received our charter on the same weekend my class was initiated, which I think is another reason that period of my life is so special to me.

Thanks for sharing.

Imperial1

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Gorilla Tom
I would be curious as to what some of you under-grads think of this. I feel that most of our young guys are missing out on something. I felt when I was initiated that I had earned my membership. I had paid not only literal dues, but had figureatively "paid my dues" as well. I never felt demeaned. I felt then, as I do now, that there were legitimate reasons for the things I was required to do. It seems like the experience that a lot of you have to day is like "fraternity light".

I am amazed at the number of young people who join GLOs and end up dropping their membership. I'm definitely old school, and I think you appreciate something more when you earn it. I wonder if that' s part of the reason that kids drop. They had their membership handed to them.

So am I just an old guy hopelessly out of touch with reality, or does my point make any sense?

On the whole I agree with most of your points... I personally believe that there should be a structured "indoctranation" into a GLO... but there is also a part of me to see how easily that can slip into hazing.

I too am appalled by the way some of the newer members take the concept of the Fraternity lightly, or expect to be handed their membership. However I am at a loss to correct a problem that I see as part & parcel of the current culture of the undergrad student today. There is a general disdain for structure or discipline, or even authority that is detremental to process of "indoctranating" new members, if not the image of the Fraternity as a whole. The only suggestion that I can come up with is to adopt a halfway point between the current attitude for anything that concerns or hints of hazing, and the attitudes of the past with respect to education and commitment to the chapter.

[RedRoseSAI]

Originally posted by sairose
It is in many orgs. Out of curiosity, is this your org's national policy? I ask because I was curious which all organizations DO have this. SAI does for certain

Actually, I don't believe it's written anywhere that members-in-training can't wear letters, although I've yet to see a chapter that allows it. I think it's just become our national culture to frown upon it.

[starang21]

Originally posted by RACooper
I too am appalled by the way some of the newer members take the concept of the Fraternity lightly, or expect to be handed their membership.

i think some people on here were appalled by the concept of "earning" letters.

[AGDee]

Originally posted by starang21
i think some people on here were appalled by the concept of "earning" letters.

I think it's more a matter of earning of letters by who you are inherently, by your character, than by doing things that are humiliating or degrading. If we didn't think a woman met our standards for membership, we wouldn't offer her a bid. If we find out later that we were wrong, there are ways of reversing that decision, even after Initiation. We should continue to uphold the ideals of our Purpose. We have a set of ideals for which we strive, every day of our lives, always.

Dee

[wrigley]

Hazing would be any activities that serve to purposely abuse, whether it's physical or mental, new members. Usually the consequences for the abused are a trip to the emergency room, psychologists office, or death.

Rarely if at all do the ends justify the means.

[Imperial1]

Originally posted by starang21
i think some people on here were appalled by the concept of "earning" letters.

I'm sayin! I wouldn't want nobody just signing some papers and not learn about my org. That's WACK! And that just shows that they have no reason to be in a sisterhood to begin with if they don't know what that means or want to express that either.

Imperial1

[ThetaPam]

Theta also does not allow new members to wear letters until after initiation. But it's not something in which new members are singled out; we're not supposed to let any un-initiated person wear our letters. Only sisters who know the meaning behind the letters are supposed to wear them.