The Break Up of America

[kappaloo]

I find North Americans who are against immigration for the most part highly hypocritical (unless you're Native American I guess). Chances are, if you look far enough back... you'll find immigrants in your heritage.

Many came to N.American without papers. Many took crop jobs or servant jobs to "pay their dues" and through the generations moved up into higher levels of society. Many keep their ethnic pride to this day. Heritage musuems are rampant - why is this writer not worried about the Czechs in Iowa? The Germans in Pennsylvania?

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by kappaloo
I find North Americans who are against immigration for the most part highly hypocritical (unless you're Native American I guess). Chances are, if you look far enough back... you'll find immigrants in your heritage.

Many came to N.American without papers. Many took crop jobs or servant jobs to "pay their dues" and through the generations moved up into higher levels of society. Many keep their ethnic pride to this day. Heritage musuems are rampant - why is this writer not worried about the Czechs in Iowa? The Germans in Pennsylvania?

After a few generations, people tend to forget that they were immigrants too. It's this hypocrisy that makes me look sideways at "articles" like this.

[Rudey]

Hypocrisy?

People do things for their self-interest.

People's self-interest changes at different times.

They don't support it, fine. They are more than entitled to their opinion.

-Rudey

[swissmiss04]

Immigrants that came here in the mid 1800s-early 1900s were just as "unwelcomed" as they are now. Maybe more so, in some places. Sometimes other immigrants can be downright terrible to other immigrants, especially if they are wealthy. I read an article about South Asian business owners exploiting other South Asians to work as domestic servants, restaurant workers, and other low paying jobs. Many people forget who they are (or who they once were) when they come here.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Immigrants that came here in the mid 1800s-early 1900s were just as "unwelcomed" as they are now. Maybe more so, in some places. Sometimes other immigrants can be downright terrible to other immigrants, especially if they are wealthy. I read an article about South Asian business owners exploiting other South Asians to work as domestic servants, restaurant workers, and other low paying jobs. Many people forget who they are (or who they once were) when they come here.

No, if they're a successful business owner, chances are that they didn't come to the US seeking a low paying service job. In America, you're only as exploited as you want to be. These folks are the proof.

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by ktsnake
In America, you're only as exploited as you want to be. These folks are the proof.

I know alot of immigrant families who have received their master's/phds abroad but when they come to N. America, its invalid. Both my parent's had their master's, and when they got here they went right back to school. Yes immigrants are exploited -- but only because they have to make a living in the meantime and support their families.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by _Opi_
I know alot of immigrant families who have received their master's/phds abroad but when they come to N. America, its invalid. Both my parent's had their master's, and when they got here they went right back to school. Yes immigrants are exploited -- but only because they have to make a living in the meantime and support their families.

Your parents should have gotten better educations.

-Rudey

[_Opi_]

Rudey,

They did.


BTW, aren't you an immigrant yourself?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by _Opi_
I know alot of immigrant families who have received their master's/phds abroad but when they come to N. America, its invalid. Both my parent's had their master's, and when they got here they went right back to school. Yes immigrants are exploited -- but only because they have to make a living in the meantime and support their families.

You don't need a valid master's degree to open up a restaurant, start a business, etc. You don't even need real skills. Sure, if someone studied medicine in Aruba, I'd kind of prefer they at least be able to pass the USMLE or study med school in the US before practicing medicine on me. American degrees are some of the most highly valued degrees in the world for a good reason.

[_Opi_]

Originally posted by ktsnake
You don't need a valid master's degree to open up a restaurant, start a business, etc. You don't even need real skills.

Sure you don't need a master's degree but you sure need a good credit and money to open up businesses. Besides, alot of Asian families do open up restraunts and businesses as soon as they are established.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Sure you don't need a master's degree but you sure need a good credit and money to open up businesses. Besides, alot of Asian families do open up restraunts and businesses as soon as they are established.

You don't need much to open up a cleaning service, lawn service, etc. Those don't really require any kind of skills either.

The fact is, that there are plenty of options for smart people to make money in the US. If they want to work for minimum wage (or less), that's up to them. If they work for minimum wage or less and have a master's degree, I guess that shows you that even educated people can do some dumb things.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Rudey,

They did.


BTW, aren't you an immigrant yourself?

Yes I am.

-Rudey
--And what?

[_Opi_]

KTsnake,

there are regular Americans who are too overqualified for their work as well. No doubt, if you've been in the country more than 10 years and you are still washing dishes, there is a problem. Most people who were educated abroad typically pickup a different degree here or open some type of a business eventually. So they don't usually end up long in min. wage jobs. And I'm just speaking on immigrants that I've come into contact with over the years.


Rudey,

Just wondering, is all.

[adduncan]

There's a bit of difference between the immigrants from points south today and the German/Czec/Polish/Irish/insert group here of yesteryear.

Today, certain activists are calling for illegal immigrants to have the right to vote, hold drivers licenses, avoid learning English, the predominant language of the USA required for any successful venture, and basically be excused from obeying the law (when it comes to legal immigrant status).

This didn't happen 100 years ago.

When you have the above being advocated, the immigrant group in question is going to take some heat.

--add

[Kevin]

Originally posted by _Opi_
KTsnake,

there are regular Americans who are too overqualified for their work as well. No doubt, if you've been in the country more than 10 years and you are still washing dishes, there is a problem. Most people who were educated abroad typically pickup a different degree here or open sometime of a business eventually. So they don't usually end up long in min. wage jobs. And I'm just speaking on immigrants that I've come into contact with over the years.


Rudey,

Just wondering, is all.

So what is your point then? You're agreeing with Swissmiss' article that says:

I read an article about South Asian business owners exploiting other South Asians to work as domestic servants, restaurant workers, and other low paying jobs

Or are you agreeing with me that people are only as exploited as they want to be? And my statement there takes into account immigrants that are just trying to get their feet off the ground and *choose* to work a few low paying jobs to do so.

In the US, I have no sympathy for smart folks that take crappy jobs. With all that you can do to get yourself out of a situation like that, there just is no excuse. It's a good thing there are folks out there like that though. We'll always need fry cooks and gardeners.