What's COLOR got to do with it?

[Poplife]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet:
If you own a BOB your quality of work should always be higher than you non-BOB competitors. That is how we will move in economic forefront.

Amen.

[dog dog bang bang]

Yeah I think most blacks talk a lot of Ya Ya. Because it is like some black hate to see other blacks achieve. That's Crazy. I support my black people to the fullest. I support my people for the simple fact that the love has to start somewhere. But also, black people got to stop trying to do their own people. The dollar comes and goes. It is not meant for us to have. That's why it spends so fast. Well, we all have supported all races in their efforts to become wealthy, but we have to focus on our own cause everyone else's race is moving forward and we are being pulled down. I say " Create Black America within but without White America". The ARAB asked my uncle, He said " Why is the Black man running it in all countries except this one?" He named the Africans, Mongolians, Iraqies, Spaniards, etc... we are some live people all we have to do is care for one another. For all you haters like P.E said, "Sucka who late I know you hate my 98, you gonna get yours". Blacks be patient

[nikki25]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet:
If you own a BOB your quality of work should always be higher than you non-BOB competitors. That is how we will move in economic forefront.

The Sphinxpoet
A degree in economics(BA)

I concur. Blacks simply have no option in that regard. You are always to be 2x as good as anyone else!

[Poplife]

Originally posted by MeezDiscreet:
if it means buying chinese, i will.

That's funny because the Chinese will die before they buy from you. It doesn't matter how good you are or what you do.

Here's a true story that happened in Washington D.C.:

"A black marketing organization approached a group of Asian merchants in an effort in an effort to sell them a variety of popular consumer items. After the Black distributors had made their sales pitch, they were disappointed when the Asian merchants replied that they were not interested in purchasing the products that the Black distributors were selling. Determined not to give up on the Asian Merchants, and convinved that contiguous boundering between the Asian communities made them quasi-members of the same community, the Black distributors offered a 25% discount from the price that the Asian merchants were paying from the same item. Again the Asians told the Black distributos that they were not interested. In a collective voice of puzzlement, the Black distributors asked how the merchants could turn down a 25% discount. The merchants responded 'You Black people just don't understand. It is not the money, but the fact that we only buy from our own. Only you blacks will buy buy from any and everyone.' The Asian merchants made their point."


And that's the same mentality that is making them ecomically and socially sound while black people are still treading water.

I'd like to know when we are going to stop BSing oursleves. We need to do what Sphinxpoet said and make our business twice as good so we can start living in black COMMUNITIES, not just black Neighborhoods.


[This message has been edited by Poplife (edited June 29, 2001).]

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Poplife is so eloquent. I'll just say ditto.

[sunnydays96]

I live in a black community where the majority of businesses are owned by African Americans. Therefore, I do support them because they are in my area and convienent. However, when I need a product that none of these black businesses can offer I have to go elsewhere and that's when the dollar goes to someone else. If the resources aren't there then what am I supposed to do? Go without, I think not. Moreover, it's easy to say "well help someone get the resources". Well if I'm looking for it, there's no way I can help someone else get it. If I had that power, I wouldn't need to go elsewhere in the first place.

[AKA2D '91]

This is not actually where I wanted this thread to go. I posted this from a thought I had from the Baby Boy thread.

Many there said they would NOT see the movie unless it came on TV, etc. This statement and others like it, has been posted before regarding OTHER movies, television shows, etc.

So, If "we" are all "down" to support OUR OWN, then doesn't it mean JUST THAT? Regardless of the business, venue, etc. Isn't John Singleton OUR OWN? Maya Angelou (referring to Down in the Delta)? That movie was a flop at the box office. Spike Lee and his movies? (and many countless others out there) If "we" really supported OUR OWN, then those and other "black" movies would be box office HITS!

I don't understand how one can say, yeah, I'm down, all I support is US, when that ISN'T really so.

My thing is, if you are going to profess something, be about it 110%.

Just an observation.

IMHO!

[nikki25]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
MidwestDiva, Poplife is indeed eloquent and 95% right, but what she continues to miss when she states her case is that key 5% element that is always overlooked. Blacks are Americans, we are not immigrants. Immigrants make their money off of their own people because they have a shared culture and language where they feel comfortable doing business with. They also come from countries where the basic economic system is socialism or cooperative economics, not capitalism. We on the other hand are raised as capitalists. Best bang for the buck, quality, service etc. White America will buy from anyone for the same reasons. Jews "used to only patronize other Jews, for the younger ones, that is not so much the case now that they have fully integrated into society, as have Italians and Irish. This pipe dream of us being like an immigrant community will not happen, because we are Americans, not African immigrants of a single tribe, culture, and language without an ability to function outside of our own zenotype. Reality is much different than the lecture hall or the book store. We need to become competitive so that all American consumers will buy from us, not just us. White kids buy Fubu, Hip Hop,etc, they buy tickets to see Black athletes and artists perform because we are the best in those endeavors. When we start producing quality products and giving 5 star service, then we will compete.

I concur. You bring an interesting perspective to this discussion with your noting of the variant paradigms and the relationship to the thinking of Black in supporting or not supporting the Black owned business. Competitiveness is indeed tied to quality, and that has continued to be my prime criticism of the BOB. It is imperative that whenever we interact with the BOB and the service was less than superior, that management is made aware. How will they become better without the type of tools that the mainstream agencies/companies use such as internal marketing studies, customer surveys, and consulting? Word of mouth!

I'm going to start a New Topic that I hope that others can contribute on BOBs on the web. Please post any businesses that you may know of with a link there.

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I will bless the Lord at ALL times His praise shall continually be in my mouth. (Psalms 34:1, KJV)

[1 Woman of Virtue]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
Blacks are Americans, we are not immigrants. Immigrants make their money off of their own people because they have a shared culture and language where they feel comfortable doing business with. They also come from countries where the basic economic system is socialism or cooperative economics, not capitalism. We on the other hand are raised as capitalists. Best bang for the buck, quality, service etc. White America will buy from anyone for the same reasons. Jews "used to only patronize other Jews, for the younger ones, that is not so much the case now that they have fully integrated into society, as have Italians and Irish. This pipe dream of us being like an immigrant community will not happen, because we are Americans, not African immigrants of a single tribe, culture, and language without an ability to function outside of our own zenotype. Reality is much different than the lecture hall or the book store. We need to become competitive so that all American consumers will buy from us, not just us. White kids buy Fubu, Hip Hop,etc, they buy tickets to see Black athletes and artists perform because we are the best in those endeavors. When we start producing quality products and giving 5 star service, then we will compete.

Actually, if you look at the Latino community, you find an excellent example for why you are about %95 mistaken. They may speak the same language, but they have as many different cultures, as there are Latino countries. They very wisely galvanized around the one thing that unified them--language. Not to mention the fact that they do come from a capitalistic system. Look at Asians. Yeah, you have China towns, little Korea's etc. but no matter how many different countries are represented, they would support another Asian before they would support you. Reality is much different than the lecture hall, and the reality is that many Black people will make every excuse for why they can't follow this model, or that model. The reality is also that before most of us were scrambling to get into the White man's neighborhoods, we had thriving businesses. We had our own laundry mats, banks, funeral parlors, dentists, insurance agencies, clinics, schools, etc. All of the things that make up a viable community. So let's not pretend that economic models that are working brilliantly for others can not work for us. We've already shown that they do! Let's try to be about the spirit of Sankofa and look to the past to reclaim the eggs that can push us into the future. Let's try doing research on our recent history pre-integration, and see how succesful we were (albeit still suffering the pangs of discrimination!) in a time when Black men were openly hanged for looking at White women. If we could do it then, why is it that we spend time discussing why we can't do it now??? Asians and Latinos could function very, VERY well outside of their own groups, the fact is they choose not too. That is why they are successful and we are still struggling. I don't mean to sound angry, so please excuse the tone of this post if it comes across that way. It's just really hard to see my people take such a lackadasical(sp?) attitude when it comes to our future.

[This message has been edited by 1 Woman of Virtue (edited June 29, 2001).]

[nikki25]

Originally posted by 1 Woman of Virtue:
Actually, if you look at the Latino community, you find an excellent example for why you are about %95 mistaken. They may speak the same language, but they have as many different cultures, as there are Latino countries. They very wisely galvanized around the one thing that unified them--language. Not to mention the fact that they do come from a capitalistic system. Look at Asians. Yeah, you have China towns, little Korea's etc. but no matter how many different countries are represented, they would support another Asian before they would support you. Reality is much different than the lecture hall, and the reality is that many Black people will make every excuse for why they can't follow this model, or that model. The reality is also that before most of us were scrambling to get into the White man's neighborhoods, we had thriving businesses. We had our own laundry mats, banks, funeral parlors, dentists, insurance agencies, clinics, schools, etc. All of the things that make up a viable community. So let's not pretend that economic models that are working brilliantly for others can not work for us. We've already shown that they do! Let's try to be about the spirit of Sankofa and look to the past to reclaim the eggs that can push us into the future. Let's try doing research on our recent history pre-integration, and see how succesful we were (albeit still suffering the pangs of discrimination!) in a time when Black men were openly hanged for looking at White women. If we could do it then, why is it that we spend time discussing why we can't do it now??? Asians and Latinos could function very, VERY well outside of their own groups, the fact is they choose not too. That is why they are successful and we are still struggling. I don't mean to sound angry, so please excuse the tone of this post if it comes across that way. It's just really hard to see my people take such a lackadasical(sp?) attitude when it comes to our future.

[This message has been edited by 1 Woman of Virtue (edited June 29, 2001).]

I remember my grandfather telling me of self sufficient Black communities in each city. One of note that many know of is Black Wall Street in Tulsa, OK. I don't think that anyone can possibly take this lightly. The indoctrination with capitalist thinking so pervades, that it seems nearly impossible for some to fathom sole reliance on the BOB.

The quality and prices of these businesses is are truly the things most striking to the nay-sayers. Additionally, in some areas, it is almost impossible to find a BOB of note. I'm currently in Pittsburgh, and its truly a struggle for me.

But its now time to consider a strategy. Since I can't patronize many here, I choose to patronize those afar over the Internet. I think that is in an excellent point to turn this discussion.

Since there is much ado about color in whom we support, what can we NOW do to direct more of our personal and collective dollars into Black-owned hands? How can we each contribute to seeing a revitalization of quality BOBs?


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I will bless the Lord at ALL times His praise shall continually be in my mouth. (Psalms 34:1, KJV)

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
MidwestDiva, Poplife is indeed eloquent and 95% right, but what she continues to miss when she states her case is that key 5% element that is always overlooked. Blacks are Americans, we are not immigrants. Immigrants make their money off of their own people because they have a shared culture and language where they feel comfortable doing business with. They also come from countries where the basic economic system is socialism or cooperative economics, not capitalism. We on the other hand are raised as capitalists. Best bang for the buck, quality, service etc. White America will buy from anyone for the same reasons. Jews "used to only patronize other Jews, for the younger ones, that is not so much the case now that they have fully integrated into society, as have Italians and Irish. This pipe dream of us being like an immigrant community will not happen, because we are Americans, not African immigrants of a single tribe, culture, and language without an ability to function outside of our own zenotype. Reality is much different than the lecture hall or the book store. We need to become competitive so that all American consumers will buy from us, not just us. White kids buy Fubu, Hip Hop,etc, they buy tickets to see Black athletes and artists perform because we are the best in those endeavors. When we start producing quality products and giving 5 star service, then we will compete.

I agree with your thoughts about giving 5 star service. We do need to be twice as good as the next man, just to stay afloat. If I encounter an Black owned business with less than perfect service, I will make a nuisance of myself until they get it together. Not wait for the business to go under, so I can shake my head and say "umph, umph, upmh, ain't that a shame?"

I disagree with the rest of your post. I don't know how things are where you live, but only the Black neighborhoods have Italian owned liquor stores, and Aasian owned nail salons, beauty supply stores and chinese food restaurants on every corner. Liquor stores and weave shops may seem menial to you, but I read recently that one liquor store in a particularly impoverished neighborhood in my city grossed $800,000 last year. And that's just the money that was legally made in that store. The owner lives in a 6,000 sq ft. home on the lake. Now multiply $800,000 times the many other liquor stores in Black neighborhoods in my city and see what you come up with. There is no way in hell, White people, or any other people for that matter, would allow us to put businesses on every street corner in their communities. The only non-White owned business they allow in their neighborhoods are the nail salons and Chinese food restaurants.

When I go to my Black dentist, I don't see many white folks sitting in the waiting room with me. And they aren't exactly beating the doors down to patronize our Black real estate agents, financial planners, doctors, lawyers, tailors, plumbers, roofers, carpenters, dry cleaners or building contractors.

I too have noticed that younger Asian Americans become assimilated and are not so quick to support only their own. But they are in a position to choose not to, we aren't.

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited June 29, 2001).]

[DoggyStyle82]

1WomanOfVirtue:

What Hispanics are you referring to? Miami Cubans don't buy from New York Puerto Ricans. They may all watch Telemundo and eat Goya beans but they are different. A third generation American Latino is just like the rest of America. He/She is not relegated strictly to the culture of their birth because by then, they have assimilated into mainstream society. As Black as our skins are and no matter how much Black Pride we have, we are Americans, i.e. consumers of the larger culture. These same Asians that you deify, will be mainstreamed like everyone else in their next generations. Do you know that over 50% of Asians marry caucasians? They won't be working 20hr shifts in the convenience store or gas station or the dry cleaner. They will be lawyers and doctors and living and working outside of their community like every other 2nd and 3rd generation children of immigrants. Just like the Black children of the old Black owned businesses who thrived under Jim Crow.

I wholeheartedly believe in supporting our own. I prefer doing business with my own. Black insurance agents, realtors, car salesman etc, but I am in sales and all my customers are white. I have done million dollar deals with the white presidents of a companies putting a check in my very black hands based on my presentation. In the end, consumers will buy price, service, and competency.

With the exception of Mormons in Utah and Cubans in Miami, no ethnicity in this country is monolithic. Comparing the African American to any other ethnic group is compare apples and oranges. The paradigm may be similar but the control group is not. Can we stop beating ourselves up?

[MIDWESTDIVA]

Doggystyle82,

Are you self employed?

[Poplife]

Doggstyle,

I understand what you are trying to say but I don't agree at all.

For one, if the language barrier is so big, then how do Asians, Arabs, and Hispanics, manage to do business with people that do not speak in their native tongue? Many Arabs and Asians have 'satellite' stores. That means that their businesses are located OUTSIDE their community but the profit goes home with them. Half the reason why they are so successful is because blacks don't mind spending money with them. Intra-community spending makes them secure, quasi-community selling without spending makes them rich.

And sure Asians are marrying white people and it's mainly the women. White men own and run almost everything in this nation. But guess what? If these Asian women get rejected by neighbors, in-laws, and coworkers they have a COMMUNITY to run back to. Blacks don't have real communities to seek refuge in...only AREA's. The Asian that assimilate do so because they want to, not because they feel like they have to in order to succeed. Many of them are already successful! Besides, Asians attempt to blend in wherever they are. It doesn't matter if they're in a Black area, White area, or Indian area...they will take on the characteristics of the main group.

I want to ask you why every group doing better than blacks who were BORN and RAISED here. We should know 'the system' better than all of the immigrants, right? Yet, we are the only ones who don't use it to our advantage!

And how many white kids buy Fubu as opposed to U. C. of Benneton, Abercerombie, Ralph Lauren, J. Crew, Levi's, Guess, and the millions of other 'white' label? It's a TREND. White people do not support black business en masse and never will. They do NOT want to see us succeed in any sense of the word. I work in a department store, and the white people often avoid blacks so they won't get the commission. Do you really believe that they will be o.k. with pumping billions of their dollars in to black wallets? One business deal, and one there. That's nice but do you think it'll work on a national scale? I sure as hell don't.

We HAVE to compare ourselves if we want to help. It hurts, but how else are we going to gage our position in society? Even after slavery, black people continue to run on autopilot. We don't even know where we are headed anymore because no one has bothered to look out of the window. Midwest, 1 Woman, and I as well as the people that feel the way we do are not beating anyone up. We are just being realistic. Do you want our people to gain a more collective status or do you want to be a 'good Negro' and believe that nothing needs to be done because you are doing well?

I think Dr. Anderson summed it up when he said "God already assigned me to a color team, but who wants to be on the losing one?"

[tickledpink]

Originally posted by sphinxpoet:
I will support BOB as long as the quality is of resonable standards. Some of these BOBs don't know what the heck they are doing! Roaches in resturants, poor Para (ie Olde Gold looking like yellow I hate that) and other stuff that peterbs me! If you own a BOB your quality of work should always be higher than you non-BOB competitors. That is how we will move in economic forefront.

The Sphinxpoet
A degree in economics(BA)

I agree 100%. Speaking of restaurants, if you're good, I'll spread the word. But if you're nasty - I'm not coming back. To be honest, I've been in "other" owned establishments, and if the service was less than acceptable, I'll ask for the manager in a heartbeat. In a BO establishment, I usually just shake my head and leave. Keep the $$, but I won't be coming back.