Gracious Living in America's Heartland

[valkyrie]

That's nasty, but at least we can't smell any of it. I don't think that alone warrants closing them down, though -- it would be a shame after how long they've been on campus. The house is gorgeous from the outside, lol.

ETA: I agree with Coramoor. Is the government going to start making people move out of their houses if they're not clean enough?

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Why?

You don't have to live there. If they are happy with the filth they live in, why should they be made to leave? They are all in college and don't need the city or anyone else to come around and tell them to clean their rooms. Frankly, I think the city is way in the wrong for trying to act like a parent.

I don't have any sympathy for them being kicked out.

And obviously it a way worse punishment for them to have to clean the place up then for them t live in it, because they obviously enjoy living in that kind of filth.


Does anyone know who owns the house? Did it say in the article. I might have missed it.

[Coramoor]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss

My guess, and its just a guess, is that they do haze their pledges, but because its late in the school year, they have no one to do the cleaning.

Cleaning the house is hazing....that's a new one to me.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Cleaning the house is hazing....that's a new one to me.

Forcing your pledges/new members to clean the house while the active members sit back and do nothing.

That is hazing.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Cleaning the house is hazing....that's a new one to me.

Making the pledges clean the house, and exempting brothers from doing so, is hazing. And your HQ will agree with me.

[Coramoor]

Don't put words in my mouth.

Cleaning your fraternity house is not hazing any more than cleaning your apartment. It is your house and it's your responsibility to clean it. Whether you are a pledge or a brother, the house and it's upkeep is part of what it is to be in the fraternity.

don't have any sympathy for them being kicked out.

And obviously it a way worse punishment for them to have to clean the place up then for them t live in it, because they obviously enjoy living in that kind of filth.

Oh, I understand that you don't have any sympathy for them being kicked out.

My question to you is why do they deserved to be kicked out? Having a filthy house is a petty excuse to close a chapter.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by Coramoor


My question to you is why do they deserved to be kicked out? Having a filthy house is a petty excuse to close a chapter.

Did you see any photos of this house? I did. They were run on the 11 pm news last night. Filth doesn't even begin to describe it, and they didn't even mention the dried blood!

This was an obviously beautifully-done house that some trashy people used in the most disgusting & vile manner! Furniture was torn apart, stuff smeared on the wall, plates & cups strewn about, and bugs *shudder* - it's been months since this place has had the tiniest bit of care. THEIR ALUMNI SHOULD FIGHT TO HAVE EACH MAN WHO LIVES THERE DEACTIVATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is beyond living is a filthy house - this is disease waiting to spread!!

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Coramoor
Don't put words in my mouth.

Cleaning your fraternity house is not hazing any more than cleaning your apartment. It is your house and it's your responsibility to clean it. Whether you are a pledge or a brother, the house and it's upkeep is part of what it is to be in the fraternity.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was responding to the level of specificity in your statement appropriately.

In and of itself, a house that is that messy doesn't prove that there is hazing, but there probably is. Do you think that their house is that messy all year round? I doubt it.

A chapter's operations and culture are interwoven. If this was a chapter that regularly cleaned its house through the shared labor of brothers and pledges, they would not be facing this problem. The most likely scenario (and I could be wrong) is that this is a chapter that forces its pledges to clean, and has a pronounced hierchy between brothers and pledges. Brothers won't clean because that is "pledge work." When all the pledges got initiated, there was no one willing, or coercible, to clean.

[Tom Earp]

What do you not understand why they were kicked off of Campus


If filth is good to live in then live in it!

This maybe the Oldest Greek Organization on Campus, they screwed up.

I am sure that not only The School, The International Organization and their Brothers are dismayed by this along with All Greeks!

The Safety of The Members should be the first thought.

[HederaNaturale]

Originally posted by honeychile
Did you see any photos of this house. I did. They were run on the 11 pm news last night. Filth doesn't even begin to describe it, and they didn't even mention the dried blood!

This was an obviously beautifully-done house that some trashy people used in the most disgusting & vile manner! Furniture was torn apart, stuff smeared on the wall, plates & cups strewn about, and bugs *shudder* - it's been months since this place has had the tiniest bit of care. THEIR ALUMNI SHOULD FIGHT TO HAVE EACH MAN WHO LIVES THERE DEACTIVATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is beyond living is a filthy house - this is disease waiting to spread!!

are you serious? please say you're being sarcastic...

[honeychile]

Originally posted by HederaNaturale
are you serious? please say you're being sarcastic...

I mean every word, except the forgotten question mark. Their alumnae donated some serious money to make this a nice house, and the actives had complete disregard for that. I've seen photos of places where children or animals are taken from which looked cleaner. A tornado could have only improved the filth.

People, we are not talking about dust, or clutter, or that type of messy. This house is in a catagory of its own when it comes to filth! I can say this, as I am NOT a neat freak, and know that (since I've had to stay with my mother for a while as she recuperates) that I have a stack of unread newspapers in my living room, it's not been dusted or vacuumed, and I will probably hire a cleaning crew before I move back into it.

As an alumna, when I donate money towards my chapter's Housing Corporation, I expect to see some clutter, but not this rank of filth!

[HederaNaturale]

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of a university-owned housing system... in that case, they need to go ahead and put me out now for having a dirty dorm room. (not THAT dirty, though!!)

But I suppose, coming from the standpoint of alums coming out of pocket, and the guys showing complete disrespect for that, I can see how Beta Theta Pi would have reason to take some action against them. However, that still doesn't give the university grounds for kicking them off campus, necessarily.

But as type this (I'm always thinking... no one can say I'm not open-minded!) I CAN see how the university could have grounds if this WERE a university-owned house, or if it were on university-owned property; if the house doesn't even meet standard health codes, and these guys were responsible for letting it fall to shambles (i.e., not just dirty, but serious health and bulding code violations-- to the extent of the house being deemed condemned or something), I can see the university having every right to take action to protect their property.

[33girl]

Originally posted by HederaNaturale
But as type this (I'm always thinking... no one can say I'm not open-minded!) I CAN see how the university could have grounds if this WERE a university-owned house, or if it were on university-owned property; if the house doesn't even meet standard health codes, and these guys were responsible for letting it fall to shambles (i.e., not just dirty, but serious health and bulding code violations-- to the extent of the house being deemed condemned or something), I can see the university having every right to take action to protect their property.

I think this is the real issue, that the house is on Uni grounds and they could be responsible for the health code violations and fines. Believe me, if you live off campus, the university doesn't give a crap if you live in garbage up to your knees.

And I don't think this has to do with hazing, I think it just has to do with a bunch of piggies living there.

[James]

I don't get it, unless there are structural problems why are they being kicked out? A thousand dollars would more than compensate a cleaining company to come in and get the worst of it.

Next year they should budget for bu-weekly cleaning service.

I agree with Coramoor its there business if they want to live with neglect, and is not indicative of being evil people.

[HederaNaturale]

Originally posted by James
I don't get it, unless there are structural problems why are they being kicked out? A thousand dollars would more than compensate a cleaining company to come in and get the worst of it.

If they're being kicked out because the buidling isn't up to code, it doesn't need to be a structural issue. It's not that they're being put out so that the school will have time to fix it, they're being kicked out as punishment for letting the building lapse into a condemned state. It's like when social services come into a house a find a filthy baby...(not a baby in a filthy house, but an actual dirty baby) they're not going to just leave the baby there and come back in an hour after you give the kid a bath; to protect the child and punish you for letting your kid get that filthy is to take the kid away. If they damaged university property due to neglect, the school definitely has a leg to stand on.

ETA: the babyness was the first example i could think of, and the words "filthy baby" just... tickle me for some reason.