Frontline: Ghosts of Rwanda

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Japan opened its doors to the west back in the 1800s. They are, therefore, at least somewhat comfortable with our views and culture and are more willing to cooperate. On the other hand, middle eastern and African countries are constantly in conflict not just with the west, but with themselves.

Are you kidding? Japan did NOT voluntarily open its doors in the 1800s. Admiral Perry used some very persuasive means to get that going, and cultural differences led to WWII lasting longer than it should have. The last time I checked, Islam is a lot closer to Christianity than Shintoism is.

The huge differences in culture between Japan and the NATO nations was one of the primary factors in the creation of the Trilateral Commission in the 1970s.

The culture of the Middle East is far closer to European culture, than many people realize. The Europrean Renaisance began when ideas from the Arab world were imported across the Mediterranian. What began to change is that Arabia fell into its own dark age, and the Renaisance never ended.

The resentment in the Arab world today is really against modernity, not against a nation or culture. Western culture, and the US in particular, is viewed as the vesel of modernity. If we weren't there, they (they=jihadists, wahabists, etc.) would just find another scape goat.

There is no credible reason to believe that just because Japan was industrialized, they were easier to assimilate into Western culture. They are still not assimilated into Western culture.

[Taualumna]

WHile yes, force was used to "open up" Japan, they did end up adapting western technology, which was why they were able to take over much of Asia during WWII. Japan (and much of Asia)is also more willing to accept western culture than the middle east though. It's normal in Asia for parents to send their kids to after school English on top of piano and soccer.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Taualumna
WHile yes, force was used to "open up" Japan, they did end up adapting western technology, which was why they were able to take over much of Asia during WWII. Japan (and much of Asia)is also more willing to accept western culture than the middle east though. It's normal in Asia for parents to send their kids to after school English on top of piano and soccer.

Western technology does not equal Western culture. Japan adopts bits and peices of Western culture, but remains comparitively xenophobic, and definitely not Western.

Arabian culture is Western, and Islam is a Western religoun. Afghanistan is at the crossroads of East and West.

I don't no how many people from sub-Saharan Africa you know, but I know quite a few, although none are from Rwanda, the culture there is more advanced then they are given credit for. Most of their problems can be solved by the people who live there. The end of the Cold War has done more good than bad in that region. All that they need is for the EU to adjust their trade policies so that Africa can compete on the global market. For example, The Economist reported that the average cow in France receives more in annual subsidies, than the average farmer in sub-Saharan Africa makes in a year.

If Africa is allowed to compete in a true global free market, they will do just fine.

And in those instances where war or genocide rears its ugly head, lets just hope that the US does not have a poll-driven president who is morally bankrupt, like we did in 1994.

[Taualumna]

Japanese (and I guess Asians from Asia in general) are only xenophobic if a non-Japanese gets too close to them. If they were truly xenophobic, then parents wouldn't be sending their children to English class nor would the kids be playing western instruments. Also, there is indeed an east meets west sort of culture in Hong Kong, though no where near as old as that of Afghanistan. The "cha chan teng", or Hong Kong style diner, is definitely a mixture of cultures. The food isn't exactly Chinese, nor is it western. Many of the dishes are island developed, such as the various "baked rice" (rice casserole) dishes, Hong Kong tea (very, very strong black tea with condenced milk and sugar), and yeen-yeung (half coffee, half HK tea) and various pasteries that are "not quite Chinese, not quite western".

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Japanese (and I guess Asians from Asia in general) are only xenophobic if a non-Japanese gets too close to them. If they were truly xenophobic, then parents wouldn't be sending their children to English class nor would the kids be playing western instruments. Also, there is indeed an east meets west sort of culture in Hong Kong, though no where near as old as that of Afghanistan. The "cha chan teng", or Hong Kong style diner, is definitely a mixture of cultures. The food isn't exactly Chinese, nor is it western. Many of the dishes are island developed, such as the various "baked rice" (rice casserole) dishes, Hong Kong tea (very, very strong black tea with condenced milk and sugar), and yeen-yeung (half coffee, half HK tea) and various pasteries that are "not quite Chinese, not quite western".

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Hong Kong.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Hong Kong.

East/West culture was brought up. Hong Kong is sort of a mix of it.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Taualumna
East/West culture was brought up. Hong Kong is sort of a mix of it.

Japan has about as much to do with Hong Kong as Russia does with Ireland. You just wanted to hijack this thread to bring up your home town in this thread, even though Hong Kong is completely, and totally irrelevant.

Getting back to Rwanda, for those who also saw the Frontline special, how did you feel about American inaction as you learned what happened?

[Taualumna]

Hong Kong's not my hometown. Toronto is. As for Japan having nothing to do with Hong Kong, you're totally wrong about that. Japan DID in fact occupy Hong Kong during the war, not to mention that much of Hong Kong's current pop culture is Japanese influenced.

[PhiPsiRuss]

Originally posted by Taualumna
Hong Kong's not my hometown. Toronto is. As for Japan having nothing to do with Hong Kong, you're totally wrong about that. Japan DID in fact occupy Hong Kong during the war, not to mention that much of Hong Kong's current pop culture is Japanese influenced.

What does any of this have to do with Rwanda?

[FHwku]

Originally posted by PhiPsiRuss
...Getting back to Rwanda, for those who also saw the Frontline special, how did you feel about American inaction as you learned what happened?

Anger and frustration towards the world's innability to react...the US government dancing around the legal implications of using the word "genocide"...the fact that people were slaughtered in a church...the fact that the RED Cross is faster and more effective than the lumbering UN...the entire thing stinks.

there were however three people that i think were pretty amazing: the UN officer who saved countless lives; the only American who stayed; and the Red Cross doctor.

I hope that both the UN and the US gov't extract valuable lessons on how to react. the bodies they desecrated in Mogadishu, Somalia, and then in Fallujah, Iraq, deserve retribution and more attention than the crappy campaigning for the lesser of two...[rabble rabble rabble]

[Rudey]

People need spines. We talk and talk but never do. We let emotions and the desire to play on public relations get in the way.

You can't win by kicking someone in the stomach. You win by not leaving even one bit of air for someone to breathe. You win by showing that something is wrong and by providing carrots as well. That doesn't mean you give them a temporary carrot. That is a final solution carrot that is the equivalent of a 5 minute morphine dose.

One of the few Americans to ever understand that is Kissinger

-Rudey

[Tom Earp]

Hmmm, I thought Marco Polo first opened trade with The Asian Countrys!

Rawanhda or waht ever, if they cannot get a symbolence of going with out killing people then what are We supposed to do?

Say they do not like The American Way, why not just drop the Bomb on them

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Rudey
People need spines. We talk and talk but never do. We let emotions and the desire to play on public relations get in the way.

You can't win by kicking someone in the stomach. You win by not leaving even one bit of air for someone to breathe. You win by showing that something is wrong and by providing carrots as well. That doesn't mean you give them a temporary carrot. That is a final solution carrot that is the equivalent of a 5 minute morphine dose.

One of the few Americans to ever understand that is Kissinger

-Rudey

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/04/in...st/04IRAQ.html

Here is a good example. If I were commanding the military, I would go in and create a pile in the middle of the town with 1 eye from each adult and 2 eyes from each child. Every militant that attacked I would bury with a cut open pig. Well maybe I would pull an Assad and just go house to house and kill everyone, without discretion and make it understood that I would be willing to pay any price to end the problem. The periphery towns that are opening schools and working hard but need the help to ensure security, I would provide money.

-Rudey
--The peacemaker

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Rudey
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/04/in...st/04IRAQ.html

Here is a good example. If I were commanding the military, I would go in and create a pile in the middle of the town with 1 eye from each adult and 2 eyes from each child. Every militant that attacked I would bury with a cut open pig. Well maybe I would pull an Assad and just go house to house and kill everyone, without discretion and make it understood that I would be willing to pay any price to end the problem. The periphery towns that are opening schools and working hard but need the help to ensure security, I would provide money.

-Rudey
--The peacemaker

Unfortunately, I think 21st century politics doesn't appreciate the value of a good atrocity for pacifying a population.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Unfortunately, I think 21st century politics doesn't appreciate the value of a good atrocity for pacifying a population.

It doesn't for Westerners.

-Rudey