Chivalry: Is it dead?

[Professor]

Frat you are right about that. You know when many sisters get those letters behind their name they think they have the world by the balls. I say if a sister wants to play with the men then be able to take the punches.

Originally posted by The Original Ape:
naw; it aint dead yet. it's still some of us fools still around. It's just that alot of yall DON'T DESERVE chivalry.

[pointNclick]

Originally posted by Professor:
Frat you are right about that. You know when many sisters get those letters behind their name they think they have the world by the balls. I say if a sister wants to play with the men then be able to take the punches.

I will respectfully disagree with Mr. Professor in regards to the comment of women who get "letters behind their names" (hoping you are referring to professional/academic credentials)think they have the world by the balls. That is a negative perspective. Women in those positions often fight through lots of crap to get to the "highest high" and are often the first ones looking for a chivalrous man because they are tired of having to fight and prove themselves to others in the workplace. Often times, men "assume" that such women don't want to be treated like a lady BECAUSE of the fact she achieved so much and usually on her own. That is simply not the case the majority of the time.

[nikki25]

Originally posted by Professor:
Frat you are right about that. You know when a sister gets those letter behind her name she thinks she has the world by the balls.

Wow! I'm reading this and I'm like, if I hear that kind of thing one more time, I'm going to blow. Why shouldn't a woman feel self assured once she's accomplished such a thing? That's really wonderful. Now if she's just nasty and doesn't know how to accept chivalrous acts, then that's another thing.

I've just finished my master's and will begin my doctoral program in the fall. And wouldn't say that I'm mean to men who try to be chivalrous toward me. I love it and encourage it. Perhaps these women that you've met, Professor, are just plain out mean and don't know how to receive a compliment or other gentlemen-like deed.

Pardon my less-sophisticated sisters for their ignorance and wait on the quality women that perhaps may come your way.

[sphinxpoet]

Originally posted by nikki25:
Wow! I'm reading this and I'm like, if I hear that kind of thing one more time, I'm going to blow. Why shouldn't a woman feel self assured once she's accomplished such a thing? That's really wonderful. Now if she's just nasty and doesn't know how to accept chivalrous acts, then that's another thing.

I've just finished my master's and will begin my doctoral program in the fall. And wouldn't say that I'm mean to men who try to be chivalrous toward me. I love it and encourage it. Perhaps these women that you've met, Professor, are just plain out mean and don't know how to receive a compliment or other gentlemen-like deed.

Pardon my less-sophisticated sisters for their ignorance and wait on the quality women that perhaps may come your way.

I think certain kinds of women like chivalry. Some women take it as a threat as the man trying to control them. Some don't even know how to take it! Most of the time it is just a man trying to be nice.

Sphinxpoet

[lastpoetnsite]

much respect...

i love my brothers *in the strictly platonic way* but i am so glad that i am not str8 after reading some of these replies by the so-called educated black men on this board.

gentlemen...how could you not want to be chivalrous(sp?) to black women? it is true that there are some women that just don't like it. but there are plenty of women out there that want it...but are afraid to ask for it because then a brotha will start looking at her as weak.

alot of this seperation between black men and women harkens back to the saying that "black women raise their daughters and love their sons". so if a black woman does not seem interested in you opening doors, pulling out chairs, paying for dinner etc. that doesn't make her uppity. she has probably had to do that kinda ish for herself for a long time before you came along.

and what happened to communication. how about sitting down with a woman and asking her what does she prefer? does she like "going dutch" for the most part? does she like her chair pulled out/doors opened? when the two of you talk you might find out that she will be shocked that you even thought ahead enough to discuss it with her.

on the other hand...its understandable that men are feeling the sting of the backlash of the feminist movement. women on one hand want "equality" on the other hand want to be catered to. men are left wondering how can they do both and live & work in the same society? i suggest ladies and gentlemen that you read..."When Chickenheads Come Home to Roost" by Joan Morgan (known also as Joan Morgan-Murray executive editor *i believe* of Essence Magazine) she discusses this issue at length.

is chivalry dead? i hope not. its something that i think all women would like to have...whether they know how to ask for it or not. and frankly it doesn't take too much for a man to open the car door for his woman, hold the umbrella over her head when its raining, pull her chair out so she can sit down at dinner, point out broken glass or a crack in the cement so she can avoid stepping on it or tripping over it. its the little things fellas that make women swoon.

just a few thoughts

peace

[sphinxpoet]

Originally posted by lastpoetnsite:
much respect...

little things fellas that make women swoon.

just a few thoughts

peace

Good Points LastPoetnsite
I think Brothers need to just treat all women (whether you are attracted to them or not) with chivalry until asked not to. If the Lord ever blesses me with a child(prayfully in wedlock) I would raise my son to always show chivalry to a woman and my daughter not to see chivalry as a threat instead she should expect it.

The Sphinxpoet

[pointNclick]

Originally posted by lastpoetnsite:

is chivalry dead? i hope not. its something that i think all women would like to have...whether they know how to ask for it or not.

Quite frankly, women should not have to "ask" for chivalry. It should just "be", period.

[dog dog bang bang]

Chivalry is not dead brothers just scared. Have you all heard that saying. But women today feel so independent that they don't give a brother a chance to even be chilvarous that a brother tries to give a woman that independency, so when a brother do be chivalrous he's wrong sometimes and when he don't he's wrong. How can a brother win? But it is not dead. Women just be patient. When I was in school, I'll carry women boxes all across the yard, and sometimes be late for class. But sometimes when I offer some women say no I got it. So I say "Are you sure?" and they say yeah. So I just let it go.

This time in society everyone is trying to have stature even if they ain't got a pot to piss in. The reason it doesn't happen is because people to day really live a life of impressions to the fullest. That goes for women and men. I'm not going to lie, I have seen brothers just sit back and let a sista carry a 35 inch TV and I be trippin'. But there is just a communication gap between brothers and sistas. All because a brother does something nice does not mean he want some from you, cause if that was the case I'll be a super freak and have all the honey's. But Chivalry is not dead we are all just caught up in a fasaad mentally.

[nikki25]

Originally posted by lastpoetnsite:
gentlemen...how could you not want to be chivalrous(sp?) to black women? it is true that there are some women that just don't like it. but there are plenty of women out there that want it...but are afraid to ask for it because then a brotha will start looking at her as weak.

LastPoet, that's something that perhaps is an excellent explanation for why some women won't expect chivalrous treatment. What do you think about the self worth aspect?

Originally posted by lastpoetnsite:
and what happened to communication. how about sitting down with a woman and asking her what does she prefer? does she like "going dutch" for the most part? does she like her chair pulled out/doors opened? when the two of you talk you might find out that she will be shocked that you even thought ahead enough to discuss it with her.

Truly, my hat goes off to you on this one. That' probably the brightest idea I've heard in some time.

Originally posted by lastpoetnsite:
is chivalry dead? i hope not. its something that i think all women would like to have...whether they know how to ask for it or not. and frankly it doesn't take too much for a man to open the car door for his woman, hold the umbrella over her head when its raining, pull her chair out so she can sit down at dinner, point out broken glass or a crack in the cement so she can avoid stepping on it or tripping over it. its the little things fellas that make women swoon.

I think that all women want chivalry as well. Unfortunately, they don't know how to communicate this need. I'm concerned for those whom don't and settle for less than they are worth.

[nikki25]

Originally posted by dog dog bang bang:
Chivalry is not dead brothers just scared. Have you all heard that saying. But women today feel so independent that they don't give a brother a chance to even be chilvarous that a brother tries to give a woman that independency, so when a brother do be chivalrous he's wrong sometimes and when he don't he's wrong. How can a brother win? But it is not dead. Women just be patient. When I was in school, I'll carry women boxes all across the yard, and sometimes be late for class. But sometimes when I offer some women say no I got it. So I say "Are you sure?" and they say yeah. So I just let it go.

This time in society everyone is trying to have stature even if they ain't got a pot to piss in. The reason it doesn't happen is because people to day really live a life of impressions to the fullest. That goes for women and men. I'm not going to lie, I have seen brothers just sit back and let a sista carry a 35 inch TV and I be trippin'. But there is just a communication gap between brothers and sistas. All because a brother does something nice does not mean he want some from you, cause if that was the case I'll be a super freak and have all the honey's. But Chivalry is not dead we are all just caught up in a fasaad mentally.

Brother, you sound as if you have the heart of the truest chivalrist (is that a word?) To me, that's what its all about, the heart. A lack of communication and the various social movements have made the hearts of men and women so hard that the battle of the sexes is at an all time high.

If you offered to carry Nikki's boxes, she'd let you carry them. As I said before, I encourage chivalry. I know that there are simply things that I, as a woman, am not equipped to do. I also just love seeing the heart of a man when he sincerely is just trying to be nice.


[This message has been edited by nikki25 (edited June 28, 2001).]

[THICKNCHOCLATE]

I don't think it's dead, but I do agree with Dog Dog Bang Bang when he says that it's scared. Case in point, a co-worker was "complaining" because a guy (white) offered to pump her gas. She's going off saying, I don't need his help, I can pump my own gas. I finally told her that he was probaly just trying to be polite. She concluded that he wanted to get with her. That may very well have been the case, but dang, it was just some gas, he wasn't asking for her hand in marriage. Anyway, I love it when a man holds the door, pulls out my chair, etc. But I agree that many women are just too darn independant and may not even realize when a man is being chilvarous. On the other hand, so many women are so used to doing things themselves, that they just don't think about letting a man do it for them

[AKA2D '91]

Since we have many fresh/young minds who are relatively new to the board, I thought I'd bring this to the top.

[lovehaiku84]

Interesting topic... I have been fortunate enough to find a guy who believes in practicing a bit of chivalry. On one occasion when we were out some girls actually stopped to give him "props" when they saw him open the car door for me On the whole, however, I think that chivalry is definitely nearing extinction. Rarely if ever do young men do polite things for women. On any given day on campus you will see these guys literally allowing doors to slam in the faces of ladies walking behind them. Forget about them actually holding the door and letting the girl walk through in front of them. Its gotten to the point where we are actually holding forums on campus to discuss the issue! I think at the same time though, on the rare occasion that a guy does try to do something polite, we as young women don't know how to take it, because usually whenever that does happen we think he's trying to "get with" us (which a lot of the time is the case).

[TonyB06]

Originally posted by lovehaiku84
Interesting topic... I have been fortunate enough to find a guy who believes in practicing a bit of chivalry. On one occasion when we were out some girls actually stopped to give him "props" when they saw him open the car door for me On the whole, however, I think that chivalry is definitely nearing extinction. Rarely if ever do young men do polite things for women. On any given day on campus you will see these guys literally allowing doors to slam in the faces of ladies walking behind them. Forget about them actually holding the door and letting the girl walk through in front of them. Its gotten to the point where we are actually holding forums on campus to discuss the issue! I think at the same time though, on the rare occasion that a guy does try to do something polite, we as young women don't know how to take it, because usually whenever that does happen we think he's trying to "get with" us (which a lot of the time is the case).

Not excusing the behavior but it's probably leaving because boys don't have it modeled enough for them (father figures.)

A couple of weekends ago, I was walking down the street with my 6-year-old daughter and switched sides, making her walk on the inside of me, away from street traffic. Granted, it was little young for a chivalry lesson, but at least she knows that "boys are supposed to walk closest to the cars."

[Gina1201]

Originally posted by TonyB06
Not excusing the behavior but it's probably leaving because boys don't have it modeled enough for them (father figures.)

A couple of weekends ago, I was walking down the street with my 6-year-old daughter and switched sides, making her walk on the inside of me, away from street traffic. Granted, it was little young for a chivalry lesson, but at least she knows that "boys are supposed to walk closest to the cars."

My boyfriend switches sides with me ALL the TIME. In fact, he will completely stop walking if he notices I'm walking on the outside.