Interesting rules that discourage having too much rushees

[Firehouse]

anyone?

[Coramoor]

Men and women are very different in that regard. Men are combative; women are cooperative. We're generally not interested in a more level playing field as you say. We want to win and toward that end we'd like the field to be slanted as much our way as possible.

...if that's your philosophy, then what is wrong with the established fraternities being in control of IFC and slanting the field to their direction. Just doesn't make any sense.

Anyway, I can see some problems with it. I don't like the idea of a cap, however if one fraternity was drawing all potentials at the cost of closing down every other fraternity it would be a bad situation for everyone. Who wants to be on a campus with only one fratnerity...given, it's unlikely, but there is a reason for why there was a cap.

Personally, when I see pledge classes of even 45 guys I wonder what kind of brotherhood they have. If you have pledge classes that size consistently there is no way you will get to know each other. Hell, you might not even know each other's names. Then comes cliches and all kinds of other problems that will kill a fraternity as fast as it grew to that size.

[Firehouse]

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"...if that's your philosophy, then what is wrong with the established fraternities being in control of IFC and slanting the field to their direction. Just doesn't make any sense."
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That's exactly what does happen. The established fraternities take control and slant the rules their way. But, ambitious and aggressive fraternities refuse to let the upperdogs set the rules. In the SigEp case at OU, I understand the fraternity budgeted money to pay the fine, just so they could get the 75 men they wanted. But IFC decided to punish them further, and that is the point is dispute. They refuse to allow others to keep them down.

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"Who wants to be on a campus with only one fratnerity...given, it's unlikely, but there is a reason for why there was a cap."
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It goes against nature for there to be only one fraternity on campus. No matter how good a particular fraternity is, another one will spring up in opposition, or just out of general contrariness. No matter how hard they try, one fraternity CANNOT put their rivals out of business. In fact, as the top dog gets better and stronger, they will force their rivals to get better if they want to compete. If you can find a rare campus with only one fraternity, it will likely be because they used to have more and no one was any good. Competition is the key to success. If there are five fraternities, and in the unlikely event one pledges every available man on campus, the others will work harder next rush to expand their own memberships.
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"Personally, when I see pledge classes of even 45 guys I wonder what kind of brotherhood they have. If you have pledge classes that size consistently there is no way you will get to know each other."
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Yes, the truth is that a chapter of 150 men seldom enjoys the same intimate connecting fibers of brotherhood among all members as a much smaller house. And in truth, on many campuses a chapter of 150 men is not necessary to compete. However, it's alo true that in a chapter of, say 25 men, you might develop five lifelong friends. In a chapter of 150 men, your base of lifelong friendships expands exponentially.

[Coramoor]

When it comes to large pledge classes like that, how many pledges make it through to be initiated?

I've been in the system for 6 rushes and I've noticed that a lot of times a pledge class of 60 may only initiate 15. I had a friend that started with 36 and only 3 made it. Usually due to hazing and physical/mental abuse they quite. Then of course there are 50 guys out there that absolutly hate fraternities.

I'm not saying that this is the case there, but from my experience that is just something I think about.

Competition is the key to success. If there are five fraternities, and in the unlikely event one pledges every available man on campus, the others will work harder next rush to expand their own memberships.

You are right. Competition is the key. However, sometimes the cards get stacked. We are most likely going to lose 2 fraternities on my campus this semester b/c they just can't attrack the numbers they need. Of course going by the 55 man cap out there, no fraternity on my campus even gets close to reaching that cap. Hell, most don't even reach half that.

[Firehouse]

Your signature is Morgantown, but I doubt that WVU has a cap of 50 on any fraternity. Caps, restrictions of any kind on membership are bad. They stiffle ambition and vision; they devalue hard work. I guarantee: take off the shackles and the fraternities will prosper.

Unfortunately, you are right about hazing and low retention. The good fraternities don't have that problem.

You a Mountaineer? I grew up in Logan.

[Coramoor]

There's not a cap here. There isn't a fraternity on campus that can even get close to breaking a 50 person cap.

Yeah, Mountaineers. Mountainqueers as most people call them, can't win a bowl game for anything.

[kstar]

As some one who is here at OU... The big deal is that we just brought a new fraternity on campus, to replace ZBT which left in Spring of 2002... and there are 4 other (men's) houses on campus which all have less than 40 members.

And since when is Kappa Sig a powerhouse at OU? Great guys, but they only have around 40 members, and are considered a middle tier house, mostly due to substandard housing...

The problem is that Sig Ep has repeatedly over the last 5 years ignored the cap and actually budgeted for the rush fines, and this year, once again agreed to play by the rules IFC set down, then is attempting to change them...

Yes, the Betas, SAE, and the Delts all took over the cap, but if I remember right, they only exceeded by 5 at the most, and they did pay their fines.

[Firehouse]

I'm sorry that there are four fraternities at OU with under forty men. No excuse on a great campus like that. Holding back the successful chapters is no way to help the weak; they must offer an attractive product to rushees or they will go out of business. Prune the tree. Let them go if they can't compete; bring in new, hungry fraternities. As far as Kappa Sigma, I'm sorry to hear they're down. It's been awhile since I was there, but over the eyars the Betas, SAE, Delta and Kappa Sigs were the traditional strongarms. K-Sig had a huge brick house that took up an entire block. One year, a heisman Trophy candidate OU football player was their summer rush chairman. Something must have happened. OU is/was a great, great school for Greeks. Congrats on being part of such a fine school.

[moe.ron]

A cap hinders growth of a fraternity. Why would you not want a successful fraternity. It will raise the bar for other fraternities on the campus. Other fraternity should realized that they must compete, those in the bottom should have the opportunity to be on top, and those on top should strive to be better so they can stay on top. I love capitalism.

[PsychTau]

Originally posted by Coramoor
When it comes to large pledge classes like that, how many pledges make it through to be initiated?

That's what I was thinking when I read about the cap. I interpreted it to mean that they were having a problem with some fraternities signing a huge amount of rushees, even guys that they never intended to initiate, they knew wouldn't keep grades, etc. in order to keep them from going to another house.

The other bad part about this is that IF SigEp agreed to follow the rules (cap) and then blatantly didnt, that's not cool and they should be consequented for that. Someone mentioned that this wasn't the first time they did that. I don't know if that's true or not, but there's a difference between "healthy competition" and just being insubordinate without good reason. I don't know enough about the situation to say which happened though.

PsychTau

[SoonerSAE]

I would have to agree with kstar to some degree...

I am not too far removed from the greek system at OU and the Sig Ep's were a larger house than the SAE's when I came on campus in 98. Sig Ep was my second choice behind SAE b/c they are a great bunch of guys. However, the Kappa Sig's USED TO BE a big house on campus, but would be considered a mid-tier for now. Actually, when I came on campus in 98 the SAEs were a small chapter and have recently grown to compete with the larger chapter's of Beta, Delt, Chop, Sig Ep. So this whole, little guy vs. big guy stuff is wrong. SAE had to work hard for where they have gotten, and I know the Sig Ep's have done so as well. It looks to me as though the Sig Ep's went too far over the cap and they are having to pay the consequences. I think the cap issue has its positives and its negatives. On OU's campus, it makes sense in some ways due to the large number of people who go thru rush each year (Fraternity and Sorority). If you sign over 50 guys/gals a semester, you get too big for your britches. At SAE when I was there we would not sign over 45 guys b/c we did not want to sit in class, see someone wearing our letters, and not know who it was b/c our house was so huge. Things have changed in the last couple years at SAE, alumni want to get as big as we used to be in the 70s and 80 before we got kicked off OU's campus. So, we have started signing more guys to satisfy alumni and to keep up with the bigger houses.

Now that I have written a novel... I must say that I wish the Sig Ep's the best. I hate to see any greek chapter come under fire, but do as we did when we got in trouble - pay the price, keep your mouth shut, and then come out with guns blazing when you get off probation.

Peace

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by SoonerSAE
Now that I have written a novel... I must say that I wish the Sig Ep's the best. I hate to see any greek chapter come under fire, but do as we did when we got in trouble - pay the price, keep your mouth shut, and then come out with guns blazing when you get off probation.

Peace

Or they can fight this rule and get rid of it, which it seems they are going to do. I know national is going to back them up. I also have a feeling that NIC and FPA will also back them up.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by PsychTau
That's what I was thinking when I read about the cap. I interpreted it to mean that they were having a problem with some fraternities signing a huge amount of rushees, even guys that they never intended to initiate, they knew wouldn't keep grades, etc. in order to keep them from going to another house.

PsychTau

Regarding Grades. A rushee/pledge/new member who can't keep his grades at one house, isn't going to do so at other house unless the GPA requirement is lower at the other house. Actually, you could say that a larger pledge class can afford a guy with grade issues more study partners. Other guys either currently or already taken these classes.

[James]

Also, a year is an awful long social probation. 1/3 of a college career. Thats out of hand.

[Coramoor]

Originally posted by TSteven
Regarding Grades. A rushee/pledge/new member who can't keep his grades at one house, isn't going to do so at other house unless the GPA requirement is lower at the other house. Actually, you could say that a larger pledge class can afford a guy with grade issues more study partners. Other guys either currently or already taken these classes.

That's quite a step in saying that a larger pledge class will help the grades of the pledges...

Usually in a large pledge class the pledges have to spend much more time at the house and social events/intermurals etc just to get to know the brothers-which takes time away from the prime purpose of why we are in college-Academics.

If SigEp is budgetting rush fines and has repeatedly agreed to not break rush rules but did so anyway...then obviously the fines are too low.

On my campus the University and Greek office have a loud bark, but when it comes to actually dealing out the fines/punishments fraternities just laugh at them. The rules keep getting broken and the system keeps getting worse.