Legalize Marijuana?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by RACooper
As far as I know roadside spot checks are not legal in the USA, so enforcement is a little more difficult and complecated.

As noted above, I think they are.

Even if not, cops can be very creative in discovering "probable cause" to stop you.

Like a broken tail light, or driving one mile per hour over the speed limit.

[James]

True probable cause has become something of a joke unless you have some serious money . . .

Originally posted by DeltAlum
As noted above, I think they are.

Even if not, cops can be very creative in discovering "probable cause" to stop you.

Like a broken tail light, or driving one mile per hour over the speed limit.

[Optimist Prime]

NOt like ciggarettes. Like alcohol. You can buy it at specially lisenced stores, or a bar. You can drink at a bar, resturant with a lisence, or in the privacy of your own home. I think that is how Cannibis Sativa should be treated.

Also, certian strands of Canibis Satvia, known as hemp, can be used to make a lot of durable products. Like plastic, only cheaper to make and better for the enviornment.

[Optimist Prime]

Originally posted by AGDee
Not sure whether I'd be for it or against it, I simply don't bother trying to figure it out because it isn't going to happen, except maybe for medicinal purposes. The reasons I say this are:

1) It's almost illegal to smoke cigarettes anywhere but in your home or car.. as they crack down more and more on this, I don't see them adding a new legal substance. Heck, they are trying to figure out how to tax foods that are high in fat and simple sugars!

2) Too difficult to measure "intoxication" if someone is driving under the influence of marijuana. There's no breathalyzer equivalent. Results of a urine test take too long to get someone off the road right away and don't prove that the person was intoxicated while driving since it stays in your system for 30 days (longer if you're overweight since it's stored in fat cells).

3) New studies show more harmful effects all the time. Smoking one joint is equivalent to smoking 20 cigarettes as far as damage to the lungs

4) As noted by ktsnake, drug busts are funding an awful lot of local police departments in everything they get to impound and then sell in auction.

5) I don't see a big corporation taking this on as a business given the huge lawsuits holding companies liable for health related problems caused by the products they sell.

I just don't see it happening, except possibly for medicinal purposes in which case it is usually in the form of a pill.

Dee

I hate quoting big posts, but you're wrong about everything. Post one study that shows one joint=20 ciggarettes, if you can find one, and I'll post 20 that will prove its wrong.

EDITED: You were right about the urine test thing. But driving stoned isn't as bad as driving drunk. Its okay to do it.

[Lil' Hannah]

I think Dee made some great points regarding the logistics of legalization, especially the one about all of the legislation regarding smoking cigarettes in public. I think decriminalization of the personal and private use of marijuana would be the only way we'd ever see any reform of marijuana laws. I don't think we'll see any reform in our lifetime, however.

And regarding your request for articles - looking online it was hard to find anything that wasn't biased. I found these 2, you can determine their credibility:

4 May 2000
"...The researchers believe that the way in which marijuana and tobacco are smoked is the key. A pull on a marijuana joint compared with a cigarette usually involves a volume two-thirds larger, a depth of inspiration one third greater and a holding of the breath four times longer, write the investigators. Inhalation of three to four marijuana cigarettes a day produces histological changes comparable to inhalation of 20 cigarettes a day..."(http://www.ms-network.com/newsflash/show.asp?ID=47)

and

"Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods of time, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer. In addition, many marijuana users also smoke cigarettes; the combined effects of smoking these two substances creates an increased health risk." (http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm)

[RACooper]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
As noted above, I think they are.

Even if not, cops can be very creative in discovering "probable cause" to stop you.

Like a broken tail light, or driving one mile per hour over the speed limit.

I meant roadside spotchecks were every car goes thorugh a checkpoint set-up by the cops, and everyone is checked..... not a cop pulling you over.

They set these RIDE checks up around the weekend, or major sporting events on some common route to the highway or just a main road. There will be about twenty cops processing the cars as they come through.... they will ask "have you been drinking", if they smell booze, you say yes, or they think you have - "please drive over to that officer over there for a breathalizer test"; along with ID and insurance.

From what cops (on my hockey team) have told me if they smell pot they'll ask you to pull over to the side and will administer a roadside sobriety test (reflexes, reaction time, hand-eye coordination). They have mentioned that they have been catching alot more people messed up on pot lately, who all insist that they can't be charged with drinking and driving (it's not that up here, it's Driving Under the Influence).

I personally think that idiots that drive stoned should have they book thrown at them just like idiots who drive drunk.

[bethany1982]

Originally posted by RACooper
Ah... you've hit on a problem though. As far as I know roadside spot checks are not legal in the USA, so enforcement is a little more difficult and complecated.

They have been doing roadside checks like these in California for years. The checks have been challenged in court a few times.

[CanadianTeke]

Originally posted by bethany1982
They have been doing roadside checks like these in California for years. The checks have been challenged in court a few times.

RIDE checks have been challeneged here as well, we just happend to have a loophole written into our charter of rights and freedoms.

[AGDee]

I don't have time to hunt for articles and get into a big debate about the harms of marijuana to the body, but some of it is just common sense. Inhaling anything into the lungs that isn't clean air is harmful to your lungs if you do it often enough. Whether it is pollution, inhalants, cigarettes or marijuana. Our bodies have to process those toxins and it's tough on all the organs involved. If it goes from the lungs to the urine and you know a little about physiology you can figure out how many organs have to work harder to rid yourself of them. Someone will, I'm sure, come up with an arguement to this next statement but.. In my experience, I've yet to see anything that alters the way the brain works be something "healthy" for people.

As for articles that will counteract this, sure, they are out there. There are also studies that alcohol (a glass of wine a day) can be helpful in preventing heart disease too, but alcohol also has toxic effects to the body. I've also seen articles about how doctors treated cigarettes years ago and I've even seen articles from the early 20's where doctors were recommending smoking to reduce stress! We know more now.

I happen to be a smoker and think that if we choose to abuse our bodies, it's our choice but there are factions out there who think if you suffer health problems related to smoking that government funded health insurance shouldn't cover it because you chose to do that to yourself. The amount of money in health care spent on smoking related health issues is astronomical.

I don't think the government or big corporations are going to take on the risks of legalizing marijuana.

I can see some advantage in having it regulated because marijuana bought on the street is often laced with other things and regulating it would ensure that a user would know what they are getting.

Dee

[ZTAngel]

Almost anything out there can cause cancer. For years, people were saying nutra sweet is a great substitute for sugar. People are now realizing that it is a carcinogen. I'm not saying that it's ok to smoke cigarettes or do any other unhealthy things. I just don't think it's the governments place to tell people what they should do to their bodies. If they want to smoke something that could possibly cause cancer, that's their own choice. Let people know the risks of certain things and leave it at that. If we tried to get the government to ban all that is harmful for people, there would be very few things out there that we could consume.

In recent years, I have become more and more convinced that marijuana should be legal. More so for economic reasons. It will reduce the amount of arrests and people thrown in jail. I know people who now have a record for carrying an 1/8 on them. I'd say the majority people who are caught with marijuana are thrown into a detention center rather than a hard core prison. Still, let's save tax payers money and put real criminals into the detention centers.

While it's probably best to drive sober , Billy is somewhat right in his opinion that it is better to drive stoned than drunk. For many people, marijuana opens their senses so that they can concentrate more. I think I remember someone posting on GC a few years back about how they like to take exams stoned just because they're able to process the information better. You just can't get an effect like that from alcohol.

ETA:
On my way to lunch this afternoon, I was stopped behind a car at a traffic light. There were about 3 people in a Civic. The driver blew out a whole puff of smoke that filled the whole car. I was thinking to myself that the puff of smoke was too big to be from a cigarette. That's when I saw the driver pass back a bong to the person in the back seat. I couldn't believe it. Now, they could've been smoking some legal herbal stuff but I highly doubt it. Meanwhile, there was a cop sitting at the other side of the intersection. Either these people have some big cajones or they're just stupid.

[Lil' Hannah]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
Almost anything out there can cause cancer. For years, people were saying nutra sweet is a great substitute for sugar. People are now realizing that it is a carcinogen. I'm not saying that it's ok to smoke cigarettes or do any other unhealthy things. I just don't think it's the governments place to tell people what they should do to their bodies.

While I totally agree with you on this the main argument behind banning smoking in public places is that second hand smoke can cause cancer as well. Smoking in enclosed public areas is banned in the entire state of Delaware and I think California, and is also banned in New York City and I'm sure many counties across the nation (I know mine is one ). Anyway, the same would go for marijuana smoke. Second hand mj smoke effects others, not just those smoking. Which is why I agree with Dee that the government wouldn't make it legal to smoke in hashish bars like it is in other countries. Marijuana could however be legalized for private use.

[ZTAngel]

Smoking is banned in enclosed places in Florida as well. A new law went into affect back in July that said smoking was prohibited anywhere that served food. So, smoking is still allowed in bars and clubs.
It's still weird to me to go into a restaurant and not have them ask, "Smoking or non?" I habitually will say, "There's of 2 us for non-smoking" forgetting that there's no longer a smoking section.
I'm really enjoying this new law. I no longer worry that there's going to be someone only a few feet away puffing on a cig while I'm trying to eat.

[Lil' Hannah]

Where I am there's no smoking at all. Not in bars, not in clubs, anywhere. So you can only imagine the uprising against marijuana smoke in public. The county argued that it was for the benefit of employees, but many bar employees are complaining that they've lost business, tips, etc.

[kafromTN]

For the record I don't smoke, that includes cigarettes, marijuana or anything else, nor do I do any other illegal drugs.

However I do believe it should be legalized for many of the aforementioned reasons. The positives vastly outweight the negatives.
1] The taxes that could be raised for the sale of marijuana through sales tax.
2] The reduction of expenses that are incurred when a person is incarcerated. It costs taxpayers $30,000 to incarcerate a person for 1 year, think about all the people who are locked up for drug related offenses and think how much money could be saved.
3] The taxes raised could be used to offset any ill health effects of smoking.
4] It would keep the product pure, i.e. people only buy weed not weed laced with drug XYZ.
5] Hemp would thus be legalized since it is banned under the same law marijuana is banned under. Hemp is much cheaper to grow and has no known natural predators [insects that eat it]
6] Less use and thus less run off of insecticides.

The reasons legalization won't happen are:
1] Cotton industry would not let it happen as they would lsoe money [this includes the companies that make the insecticides]
2] The junk science with the research that says that it is more harmful than smoking cigarettes without any prove, that it is a gateway drug etc.
3] The tobacco industry would see it as competition instead of embracing it and starting to grow it so they too would fight it.
4] Society has to change and people have to accept responsibility for their actions so that the fear of being sued for people using a product in excess is reduced.

just my $.02

-Mark

[cash78mere]

Originally posted by ZTAngel
I know people who now have a record for carrying an 1/8 on them.


While it's probably best to drive sober , Billy is somewhat right in his opinion that it is better to drive stoned than drunk. For many people, marijuana opens their senses so that they can concentrate more. I think I remember someone posting on GC a few years back about how they like to take exams stoned just because they're able to process the information better. You just can't get an effect like that from alcohol.

well, the law's the law. if it's illegal to have possession of pot and you are caught with it, face up to it and face the consequences.

this second paragraph really got to me. why do people think that they have free reign to do whatever they want? if you want to smoke pot at home and stay there, fine. but when you smoke pot and then get into a car, MY life can be in danger. that's where the line needs to be drawn. just because you want to have fun doesn't mean you can drive a 3000 pound car with impaired vision and reflexes.

smoke it if you want. hell, kill yourself with it for all i care. but once you get into that car, your ass belongs in jail.