Native American Casinos

Originally posted by Rudey
It's a big bad secret but politicians can bring in manufacturing plants, sports teams, financial firms and it hurts tax payers...they could achieve the same and better if they just did a transfer of money.

-Rudey
--It's just a trick. Every economist knows it.

I'm not an economist, so i can't speak to that. I do know that a lot of times projected "revenues" to a community when trying to woo taxpayer support for proposed sports teams/arenas is often grossly inflated. If i remember my Economics of Recreation class, what should be used to measure true economic impact is money NEW to the community, brought by visitors to the area that were drawn by said arena or sports team who wouldn't have visitied w/o said attraction. At least i think that's what Crompton was trying to say.

But, i feel the US government would be doing more to help the Lakota if they ceased the 'hand-outs' and made them get a job and earn their pay.

Kitso
KS 361

[Rudey]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
I'm not an economist, so i can't speak to that. I do know that a lot of times projected "revenues" to a community when trying to woo taxpayer support for proposed sports teams/arenas is often grossly inflated. If i remember my Economics of Recreation class, what should be used to measure true economic impact is money NEW to the community, brought by visitors to the area that were drawn by said arena or sports team who wouldn't have visitied w/o said attraction. At least i think that's what Crompton was trying to say.

But, i feel the US government would be doing more to help the Lakota if they ceased the 'hand-outs' and made them get a job and earn their pay.

Kitso
KS 361

Your professor was wrong. If you want I'll tell you about sports teams arenas.

An owner goes to the mayor and says I want a new stadium. Give it to me. Why do I want a new stadium? Because I will collect most of the revenue from the luxury boxes in that stadium. For about 5 years that will provide me personally with a boost in income. You know what I will do if you don't give this to me Mr. Mayor? I will leave town and you will have a whole lot of voters hating you. A couple teams have actually even followed through with the threat and remember how other politicians would love to have me in their state...so why don't you do it?

Mr. Mayor says "Yeah why not...nobody will really know what happened". Basically the city funds the stadium and is responsible for a ton of debt from it and also the costs afterwards. The profits would never even cover the costs but regardless they go to the owner. The local economy has not improved at all. How much of a profit is there on a hat? a shirt? Not too much...regardless think about how many hats and shirts you'd have to sell to make up for that debt. Now let's take this further, the economy is suffering. People are on the highway going to the stadium and on the roads on the weekend. Local retailers lose money because people don't come out due to the traffic. The city pays for extra police to come out and monitor things. etc. etc.

If you don't believe anything else I say, believe that. I'll show you all the math if you want or I'll let you do some interesting reading. Allen Sanderson is quite possibly one of the top 3 sports economists. He breaks down all these myths in sports in an easy to understand way and is brilliant. Anyway, take that and apply it to anything that the city spends money on. All this stuff is about bragging rights. Chicago brags about the Bears and builds them an amazing stadium which has even less seats than before but more luxury boxes and NYC brags about all the financial firms that are putting it in the red because of "tax breaks".

-Rudey

[DeltAlum]

That's pretty much true, I think. Especially when the team (read that the owner) also gets the parking, concessions, etc.

But those projections are inflated. What difference does it make if I go to a Broncos game in Mile High Stadium or the new Invesco Field at Mile High? The money is still being spent in the same place by the same person -- just more of it is going to the team now. That can't be counted as an added benefit to the community.

As for the Native Americans, I'm a little over 1/8 Cherokee, but have never gotten a penny and never will. But that's my choice.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

NA Casinos are HUGE up here (literally). I'm not any part NA and know not much at all but my understanding is that every tribal member gets a monthly check out of the profit from the casino. I'm always amazed though that the casino is doing so well, and yet you drive through the reservation and see run down homes with fancy new cars out front. It seems to me that the monthlyt check is just further reason to not work. They get the money regardless, so why work. Mind you, I think the checks are pretty good size on the larger reservations up here (Puyallup, Tulalip, Muckleshoot).

I don't know how it is in other areas but we also have quite a bit of contention between the tribes and the non-Indians who live on the land. The whole "no representation" argument. And it's fairly common in certain areas up here.

And then there's the lovely Makah whale hunts...........

[Optimist Prime]

I support NA casinos. Because I don't think its a good idea to be drunk while playing high stakes poker.

[AXO_MOM_3]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
i feel the US government would be doing more to help the Lakota if they ceased the 'hand-outs' and made them get a job and earn their pay.
Kitso
KS 361

I agree Kitso. I am of the opinion that reservations tend to perpetuate the problems that many American Indians face such as unemployment, suicide, high school dropouts and alcoholism/substance abuse. If a casino provides a way for American Indians to have employment, greater economic independence from the US, and a facility that assists/promotes the greater good of the tribal community, and provides a way for the tribe members to have pride in an accomplishment then I'm all for it. I do think they should put the revenues back into the tribal community itself though. I don't think casino's are the ONLY way to accomplish this though. The AI's need something (motivation) to help them gain more self worth and esteem within tribes, between tribes and within the dominant culture of the US.

Rudey - There are huge funds managed (mismanaged) by the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Governmental agencies have mishandled American Indian trust funds in the past, and many of these people continue to experience extreme poverty. The US has tried to governement involvement and money to pay off their wrongs for a long time, and it has only succeeded in turning once proud nations into groups living on the dole with no sense of purpose. Funds are dispursed to Federally RECOGNIZED tribes only - there are about 550 tribes recognized, many more tribes are not recognized. There is numerous fighting between various tribes too, and the red tape for a tribe to become recognized is about 10 years long.

AI's are becoming much more political. Some do contribute significantly to politicians, if they feel it will further their causes (such as casinos, land, etc).

These nations (tribes) are established as a separate entity from the United States and have sovereign immunity status and the ability to govern themselves. They work on a government to government basis with the United States. They don't have to follow our rules and can do whatever the heck they want to do on their land. The US Government has broken treaty after treaty with the AI's, and has treated them deplorably as have many American citizens. I 'm not sure more government involvement is the answer. More AI's are getting educations in the areas of teaching, medical services, etc, and are returning and putting efforts back into the tribes.

The US was their land first, and as far as being detrimental to rural areas, why shouldn't American Indians give back to the people of the USA exactly what the people of the USA gave to them over the past 200 years? American Indians had land, status, and resources. The USA has taken a large portion of this from the AI's. We've destroyed the land, and built those super highways and shopping centers and houses. If they want to build luxury homes, parking garages and everything else on their land in rural areas, who are we to judge?
I'll get off my soap box now! Forgive me for the long rant.

[Hootie]

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361

hand-outs is not the answer. Motivation to work is.

Kitso
KS 361 times the people don't want to hear that, but it's true

I would have to agree, as I think your words fit almost any situation.

I have only been to one NA Casino, which is in Iowa. I was a little shocked that it was okay for 18 year-olds to gamble, but there also wasn't any drinking. I don't know much about the NA Casinos, so I can't comment specifically, other than what I've learned on here.