SigEp brothers become ADPhis

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by madmax
If Alpha Delt is not in IFC then why is one of their members the IFC treasurer?

Because he was elected treasurer when he was still a Sig Ep, I imagine.

I think the whole situation is a little sketchy, to be honest, but I definitely don't think Sig Ep handled things correctly either.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by starang21
i guess stuff like this happens when you don't love your organization.

They got kicked out! SigEp kicked them out! They said "Hey, Captain Underpants, we're closing Virginia XYZ and you aren't a brother anymore." Would you love your organization after that?

Sometimes I wish that you would give as much respect to NPC/NIC orgs as we give to the NPHC orgs on GC. It goes both ways.

And like I said in the original thread, SigEp HQ has been putting insane pressure on a lot of chapters lately, and has some very unreasonable expectations, IMHO.

[starang21]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
They got kicked out! SigEp kicked them out! They said "Hey, Captain Underpants, we're closing Virginia XYZ and you aren't a brother anymore." Would you love your organization after that?

Sometimes I wish that you would give as much respect to NPC/NIC orgs as we give to the NPHC orgs on GC. It goes both ways.

And like I said in the original thread, SigEp HQ has been putting insane pressure on a lot of chapters lately, and has some very unreasonable expectations, IMHO.

cool out. i never said anything about not respecting anyone. you're reading way too much into my statement.

Sig Ep nationals disbanded the W&L chapter in July because of "rumored alcohol abuse", "questionable membership activities," and "regular disdain and combative relations" with headquarters.

if you act a complete ass, you're bound to have people pull your card on it. there's a reason why captain underpants isn't a national brother anymore. and obviously from the ways these boys have been acting, and the fact that they are just running to the first organization that picks them up...leads me to believe that all they really want is some letters. but then again, if Iota kicked me out..i'll be damned if i do anything else. that ish isn't even possible.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Because he was elected treasurer when he was still a Sig Ep, I imagine.

Correct.

[33girl]

All I can say is...if this is because of what the housemother said, and they'd take the word of a disgruntled fired woman WHO ISN'T EVEN A BROTHER, that is absolutely sub-pathetic.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by 33girl
All I can say is...if this is because of what the housemother said, and they'd take the word of a disgruntled fired woman WHO ISN'T EVEN A BROTHER, that is absolutely sub-pathetic.

Well, word on the street is that she had videos depicting "questionable membership activities"---perhaps including hazing of some kind and pretty wild drinking. That is pretty much rumor, though. However, I think that the video claim is fairly substantiated.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
They got kicked out! SigEp kicked them out! They said "Hey, Captain Underpants, we're closing Virginia XYZ and you aren't a brother anymore." Would you love your organization after that?

Let me point out that SigEp did offer them alum status, but they rejected it.

I'm not taking sides here in the nationals-chapter debate, but I do think both sides were in the wrong to some extent. Ie, nationals would come in and they would make NO effort to get along with them. However, some of the expectations nationals had for them were not the best--ie the numbers thing. Their nationals wanted them to get like 25 guys--which is more than their house could hold and definately more than any chapter can get considering the size of our school.

I know for a fact that they did haze, also. Nothing bad considered in the big, overall scheme of W&L hazing (think cattle prods) but that was sort of lurking below the surface. I know of only 2-3 fraternities on campus that don't haze physically and none that don't haze at all. I don't support any kind of hazing, and even though the SigEps were pretty mild (probably considered "normal" even by a lot of the guys on GC) I don't think that helped--like a nationals guy came by one Hell Week and found pledges living in the basement of the house, totally sleep deprived, and put an end to it.

My impression of the SigEp nationals is that they are a LOT more watchful than many national orgs on our campus (probably the fact that we're only 2.5 hours from the HQ contributes). The Virginia Epsilon chapter was definately a great chapter, but I think in many ways they shot themselves in the foot by the way they interacted with and responded to their HQ.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by breathesgelatin
Well, word on the street is that she had videos depicting "questionable membership activities"---perhaps including hazing of some kind and pretty wild drinking. That is pretty much rumor, though. However, I think that the video claim is fairly substantiated.

Out of curiosity, was this lady just skulking around the house with a video camera trying to catch them doing something bad? Because that sounds pretty weird to me.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Out of curiosity, was this lady just skulking around the house with a video camera trying to catch them doing something bad? Because that sounds pretty weird to me.

Maybe she was trying to make a porn: Balanced Men Gone Wild?

[breathesgelatin]

I am LMAO at s&s and GP...

I mean, by all accounts their former house mom was a wee bit crazy, anal, you name it... just REALLY out there. but she had evidence, it appears.

[sigep653]

First of all, the expectations from our national fraternity are not unreasonable. Sigma Phi Epsilon doesn't tolerate mediocrity, they expect their chapters to be among the best on campuses all over the nation-that's how we got to the top of the fraternity world, and that's how we're going to stay there, is Nationals' thinking. (I assume). I seriously doubt that nationals would disband a chapter and pull its' charter based simply on evidence from a disgruntled former housemom. The evidence might be enough to warrant sending the Regional Director (who is the rep for nationals to the different chapters in his region) and have him investigate, and if he finds sufficient cause, he'll walk out of the house with the charter. If they were hazing, then that's one strike against them, even if it was "mild". Nationals has zero tolerance when it comes to hazing, trust me. Having bad relations with nationals doesn't help, either. I've had to deal with our national fraternity, and it's not always fun, but they have always tried to help us improve when we've needed to, it hasn't been "you need to get better, or else". But, I guess I don't know all the particulars of the situation. I'm just speaking from my experience as a Sig Ep. I hope things work out well for the new ADPhis, and I hope they remember the oath they took when they were intiated into Sig Ep, cause if they don't, we've got a problem. I think y'all know what I mean.

In Phi,
Sigep653

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by sigep653
First of all, the expectations from our national fraternity are not unreasonable. Sigma Phi Epsilon doesn't tolerate mediocrity, they expect their chapters to be among the best on campuses all over the nation-that's how we got to the top of the fraternity world, and that's how we're going to stay there, is Nationals' thinking. (I assume). I seriously doubt that nationals would disband a chapter and pull its' charter based simply on evidence from a disgruntled former housemom. The evidence might be enough to warrant sending the Regional Director (who is the rep for nationals to the different chapters in his region) and have him investigate, and if he finds sufficient cause, he'll walk out of the house with the charter. If they were hazing, then that's one strike against them, even if it was "mild". Nationals has zero tolerance when it comes to hazing, trust me. Having bad relations with nationals doesn't help, either. I've had to deal with our national fraternity, and it's not always fun, but they have always tried to help us improve when we've needed to, it hasn't been "you need to get better, or else". But, I guess I don't know all the particulars of the situation. I'm just speaking from my experience as a Sig Ep. I hope things work out well for the new ADPhis, and I hope they remember the oath they took when they were intiated into Sig Ep, cause if they don't, we've got a problem. I think y'all know what I mean.

In Phi,
Sigep653

I think you've done a pretty job of summing up the situation. A variety of things had happened, and the housemom's evidence was probably the final straw. If they'd fostered better relations with HQ all along, it might not have happened.

[exlurker]

Originally posted by breathesgelatin

. . . .
I know for a fact that they did haze, also. Nothing bad considered in the big, overall scheme of W&L hazing (think cattle prods) but that was sort of lurking below the surface. I know of only 2-3 fraternities on campus that don't haze physically and none that don't haze at all. I don't support any kind of hazing, and even though the SigEps were pretty mild (probably considered "normal" even by a lot of the guys on GC) I don't think that helped--like a nationals guy came by one Hell Week and found pledges living in the basement of the house, totally sleep deprived, and put an end to it.

. . . . The Virginia Epsilon chapter was definately a great chapter, but I think in many ways they shot themselves in the foot by the way they interacted with and responded to their HQ.

Assuming what you say is true, the W&L IFC, the Greek advisors, and the fraternities' HQs have their work cut out for them. Cattle prods? CATTLE PRODS? You know what I'm thinking about? The excellent comments made by JustaMom concerning her son's and son's friends feelings about rushing at LSU -- very anti-hazing, as I recall.

There must be great guys at W&L who don't like hazing, and I hope things get turned around there.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by exlurker


There must be great guys at W&L who don't like hazing, and I hope things get turned around there.

I think you'd be surprised. W&L being as Greek as it is, the majority of those are apply are probably at least somewhat familiar with the Greek system there before they even apply to the school. I imagine that quite a few of them know what kind of hazing takes place.

The problem is that once hazing gets ingrained in the campus culture it's hard to break the cycle. Even if one fraternity decides to change things and stop the hazing, the other frats look down on them and rushees will be hesitant to pledge because of that fact.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think you'd be surprised. W&L being as Greek as it is, the majority of those are apply are probably at least somewhat familiar with the Greek system there before they even apply to the school. I imagine that quite a few of them know what kind of hazing takes place.

The problem is that once hazing gets ingrained in the campus culture it's hard to break the cycle. Even if one fraternity decides to change things and stop the hazing, the other frats look down on them and rushees will be hesitant to pledge because of that fact.

Uber-ditto