Speaker

[sugar and spice]

The two really can't be compared. Housing is a basic need whereas a sorority is definitely not. The equivalent of "Nobody drops just because of the money" would be that "Nobody is homeless just because of the money," which is true. Nobody sits around and says, "OK, well, I used to have money but now I don't so I think I'll become homeless." Whenever somebody is homeless, there are deeper issues at play -- usually that they lack the skills to be able to pull themselves up. That is the bigger problem. The lack of money is, again, not the basic issue.

Not to mention that college students cannot be compared to homeless people because we have the inherent advantage of having at least a high school education or equivalent and marketable skills if not a degree, and they don't always have all or any of those.

The thing is, with sorority dues there is ALWAYS a way to pay. People overestimate how expensive they are. You don't have to be wealthy to manage it. Even the most expensive dues at my school could be covered by a 10-hour-a-week student gofer job. My own dues could be covered by a couple of plasma donations each week. Most college students could save a couple hundred bucks each semester if not more just by making lifestyle changes -- not ordering that late night pizza once a week, buying their textbooks used, not drinking so much . There is always, always a way to pay. Is that way always easy? Definitely not. I have friends who have worked a full-time job and a second part-time job in addition to going to school full-time just to be able to cover their expenses. Would I be able to do that under normal circumstances? No. Would I do it if I had to? Of course. And would I do it if I wanted something enough, and that something was expensive? Definitely.

But if a member decides that she can't pay $1000 a semester for an experience, she's saying, basically, that that experience is not WORTH $1000 a semester. That doesn't make her a bad person. It doesn't even make her sorority a bad sorority. But it does mean that she feels she was charged too much for what she got out of it.

[hijack]
Actually I read a study that said that a lot of homeless people DO have degrees and they are qualified geniuses. I thought it was an interesting fact. Most can't deal with day to day responsibilities because they think they are mundane. Did you know that Einstein couldn't tie his own shoes? That's just an example of how very intelligent people aren't privy to things like a mortage payment for instance.
[hijack]

[FuzzieAlum]

Again, I have to disagree, there isn't always a way to pay, at least not a way our membership would approve of. Dues are pretty low at many schools, mine included, but at some they are off the charts. A couple pizzas won't cut it. And I know I sure as heck didn't order a couple of pizzas a week as an undergrad. My budget didn't stretch that far.

Sure, I suppose anyone could raise the money by something like prostitution or drug dealing, but if any GLO supports that they definitely aren't worth the price! And even something very ethical like working at Starbucks means, for some students, a substantial drop in GPA - and again, GLOs are about high academic standards as well. Quite honestly, if Alpha Xi Delta told me that being a member was worth having a much lower GPA, I'd question our values. A sorority is not supposed to be first in one's life; Theta Chi says it best with, "Alma mater first, and Theta Chi for alma mater."

I just really don't like generalized statements that don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. To say that _no single person EVER_ quit a GLO for money is almost bound to be false. Can't we have a little charitable feeling for some of our former brothers and sisters? (Or were they really buying our friendship, and that friendship was cut off with the flow of dollars?) And for our own organizations? (If we have to offer enough value to keep in every perpetually unsatisfied sister we made the mistake of pledging, pretty soon a Nobel Peace Prize, a house in Paris, and George Clooney will be standard Little Sis gifts.)

[Glitter650]

1. Meet people
2. Make them your friends
3. Introduce them to your friends
4. Introduce them to your organization
5. Offer them a bid.

Ummhumm... Phi Sigs do these steps seem very familiar to you all ???

I also must disagree there isn't always a way to pay... as my parents used to say money doesn't grow on trees.. and true while A LOT of college students could find a way to pay for sorority if their parent's wouldn't help them there are a few that are in situations where they know they just can't make the committment or do have to quit because they are no longer in a place to make that committment aymore. I know we extended a bid a couple weeks ago and she declined because of money. The sisterhood respected that because no matter how much we offer payment plans and such if SHE knows she can't afford it and is being responsible enough to say so now, instead of a semester from now when she owes who knows how much money and it's adding up on her. We basically owe her a thank you for saving us a headache! It actually made us want her as a member more though because it shows that she takes the committment seriously and would most likely be a GREAT sister. MONEY SUCKS

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
Again, I have to disagree, there isn't always a way to pay, at least not a way our membership would approve of. Dues are pretty low at many schools, mine included, but at some they are off the charts. A couple pizzas won't cut it. And I know I sure as heck didn't order a couple of pizzas a week as an undergrad. My budget didn't stretch that far.

Sure, I suppose anyone could raise the money by something like prostitution or drug dealing, but if any GLO supports that they definitely aren't worth the price! And even something very ethical like working at Starbucks means, for some students, a substantial drop in GPA - and again, GLOs are about high academic standards as well. Quite honestly, if Alpha Xi Delta told me that being a member was worth having a much lower GPA, I'd question our values. A sorority is not supposed to be first in one's life; Theta Chi says it best with, "Alma mater first, and Theta Chi for alma mater."

I just really don't like generalized statements that don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt. To say that _no single person EVER_ quit a GLO for money is almost bound to be false. Can't we have a little charitable feeling for some of our former brothers and sisters? (Or were they really buying our friendship, and that friendship was cut off with the flow of dollars?) And for our own organizations? (If we have to offer enough value to keep in every perpetually unsatisfied sister we made the mistake of pledging, pretty soon a Nobel Peace Prize, a house in Paris, and George Clooney will be standard Little Sis gifts.)

Again, you're making things way too overly complicated.

If a sorority member decides that she can't pay the dues because her job is making her GPA drop too much, that doesn't mean the problem is the money. It means she values her GPA over her sorority experience. And nobody is saying there's anything wrong with that.

The money is still not the main issue in that hypothetical situation. I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a situation where it is.

[Glitter650]

If someone has work to pay her tuition and working enough hours to make get money for tuition is the only amount of hours she can put in because she needs time for school, money is the obstacle, there's only a certain amount of time during the day that you can work yourself for that sorority experience before it becomes a problem of just not enough money. I'm not sure if that made any sense once I typed it out, but I believe money IS the issue if all of your extra cash goes toward just even being able to have your butt in a chair during class.

[33girl]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
My own dues could be covered by a couple of plasma donations each week.

So if a sister can't pay her dues, she should get her vital fluids pumped out every week and risk her health? I seriously hope you're joking. I have been anemic off & on since I was 13 - if I had to do plasma donations every week, I would be dead.

Also, for some people, attending college is a family affair. That is, EVERYONE in the family sometimes has to make sacrifices so the person can attend. I know that if I knew my mom, dad and sister had to give up things that are important to them just so I could be in a sorority, it would make me feel guilty as all hell. There are lots of people, probably some on here, that didn't go to the school of their dreams because of the impact it would have had on their family.

Not to mention the hits some families have taken with job losses, divorces, etc....you can literally go from living large to scraping by in a second.

People do quit because of the money, and they do give up things they really want and are getting benefits from, BECAUSE IT IS JUST NOT FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE. Anyone who thinks that is a bogus excuse needs to take their head out of the sand and look at the state of America today.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

Damn, girl! JOKE! JOKE!

I think what sugar & spice was trying to say was that if you think creatively sometimes the unexpected is possible.

I have a bleeding disorder; plasma donations would be out of the question for me, too. But I could baby-sit at church for a couple hours every Wednesday.... or work in the bookstore on Saturdays... there are inventive ways to come up with $50 extra a week for just about everyone.

[SigkapAlumWSU]

I'm pretty sure that this guy spoke at our school this year as well, and he was very well recieved. Last year we had two speakers that pretty much told us that everything was our fault and we were never going to get better (regarding greek life in general) which was a major downer. This guy was very well spoken, and his presentation was hilarious. Did he do this at any one else's school? (and if he did, you will know what I'm talking about)

"Be the Cow"

[navane]

Thumbs up to you all, this is an excellent discussion.


.....Kelly

I have to agree with 33girl et. al....sometimes there just isn't a way.

Yes, if it's just a matter of working a few more hours a week, eating out a little bit less, etc... yes... it's a weak excuse to quit for financial reasons.

But I think more of the people who do are in serious financial difficulty that won't be improved by working 10 extra hours at the Stop N Shop. There are sorority members who are supporting their families by working full time while in school and still not getting by...should we blame them for not putting sorority above "food for parents"? What about medical conditions?

This gets me a little riled up, because I almost did turn in my letters for financial reasons. I got very sick a few years ago and was in and out of the hospital... racking up tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills. Should I have paid those first (credit which would affect me for the rest of my life, and possibly keep me from getting further treatment if I was overdue)? Or paid my sorority dues? Needless to say, I decided my health was more important than my membership. Luckily, my sisters were sweet and covered my dues for the year that I couldn't pay them.

But really... there is NOT always a way.

[PsychTau]

I have a question about Stollman's presentation, but not about money......

I saw his presentation last year at our convention, but I don't really remember this statement. Others who have seen him recently report that he says to bring recruits/rushees to your weekly meetings....give them a taste of what it's REALLY like on the other side .

So, what do you think about having your weekly business meetings open to recruits during the semester (assuming you are doing open bidding, not during formal recruitment)? This doesn't include meetings where ritual takes place (obviously!), but may include the guests standing outside while the ritual is going on, then coming into the room for the "business" part of it. How would a recruits attendance affect the way your meetings go now? What do you think are the pros/cons to this? Has anyone done this? How did it go?

PsychTau

[33girl]

ummmm, no.

While it isn't ritual per se, what if you are discussing things like discipline of a particular member or inter-Greek turmoil? If I was Susie up for termination, I would be very irked at the idea of random people hearing about it. And if you kept having to tell the rushees to leave the room, that would probably make them think all sorts of things, not to mention make them feel uncomfortable.

and then there's the other half of meetings, which is just plain boring or full of things only the members understand.

[James]

I have never seen David Stollman speak. But these 5 steps have been the official NIC approach forever lol.

The difficulty is that most chapters don't do this in an organized systematic way.

Originally posted by Glitter650
1. Meet people
2. Make them your friends
3. Introduce them to your friends
4. Introduce them to your organization
5. Offer them a bid.

Ummhumm... Phi Sigs do these steps seem very familiar to you all ???

[NutBrnHair]

If you're discussing the termination of a member in a chapter meeting -- you're openning yourself up for lots of problems! Yikes.

PsychTau -- I think it's an interesting concept. It's definitely "outside the box" and something to consider.