Is this really hazing?? - Page 2

Lady Pi Phi · #16 10-02-2003, 12:32 PM

If you're looking at interviews as a way to get to know your new members why not set up time with actives and new members where they just hang out. Instead of making the NM's run around trying to get a hold of actives, set up half an hour periods or and hour periods or so, maybe on a weekend, and just hang out with the NM. Have a few actives meet with a few NM's one weekend. Play some pool, have dinner together, whatever. Just have a casual meeting. If all you want is to get to know new members wouldn't it be best to meet them in a relaxed setting rather than meeting them under all this pressure to get signatures? You'll never really get to know them that way.
If you're asking new members to interview actives then it's only really the new members getting to know the actives and the actives still don't really know the new members.
I don't know if I made any sense. I think what I'm trying to say is why not have a Brother's night. We have Sister's nights where new members and Actives get together and do something fun. It gives everyone a chance to get to know each other in a relaxed and fun environment.

alsparky · #17 10-02-2003, 01:04 PM

When I was active, the New Member Educator asked each initiated pledge class, or some combination of them, to come up with an activity to do with the new class. With her approval, of course.

We did things like movie night, complete with nail painting and junk food, Sunday morning cartoons (in PJs with PB&J and milk!), fun, small group activities to not intimidate the new girls, but intimate enough to get to know people. Everyone loved it!!

Allison

sigmagrrl · #18 10-02-2003, 01:20 PM

I believe the proper terminology used for our sorority is "quests of any kind". This includes seeking/getting interviews, scavenger hunts, etc....

I don't believe that the idea stated by Buttonz would be considered hazing at all..It's rather sweet actually...But, I don't want to state anything as fact...I'm still memorizing all International Rules and Regulations!

emb021 · #19 10-02-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
If you're looking at interviews as a way to get to know your new members why not set up time with actives and new members where they just hang out. Instead of making the NM's run around trying to get a hold of actives, set up half an hour periods or and hour periods or so, maybe on a weekend, and just hang out with the NM. Have a few actives meet with a few NM's one weekend. Play some pool, have dinner together, whatever. Just have a casual meeting. If all you want is to get to know new members wouldn't it be best to meet them in a relaxed setting rather than meeting them under all this pressure to get signatures? You'll never really get to know them that way.
If you're asking new members to interview actives then it's only really the new members getting to know the actives and the actives still don't really know the new members.
I don't know if I made any sense. I think what I'm trying to say is why not have a Brother's night. We have Sister's nights where new members and Actives get together and do something fun. It gives everyone a chance to get to know each other in a relaxed and fun environment.

We (and I think many other chapters) do just that.

The only time that our pledges should feel they need to 'run around' trying to get signatures would be to meet the associates of our chapter who rarely show up to events. We tell our pledges that the BEST way to meet the members and get their signatures is by coming to meetings & events. That's what I did when I was a pledge. Doing fellowship events (ie social events) with the actives and pledges are the best way for all to get to know one another, and most groups do this (I would hope). My chapter has been doing very successfull "Big/Little" events that really help the pledges get to know their Bigs and the other members.

Also, we encourage pledges to wear their pin and carry their pledge book with them at all times (within reason) because you never know if you might meet an associate or alumni member, and this would be a chance to meet them and get a signature. This helps them realize that our organization is more then just our chapter.

FSUZeta · #20 10-04-2003, 10:57 AM

while i think the premise of the pledge book/signature idea is sound, i have to agree that under npc rules (and i realize this is a fraternity, not a sorority) it would be considered hazing. npc looks at hazing as anything that the new members are required to do that the initiated members are not-so if the new members were told to be at the house at 5 pm, were divided up into small groups and driven out to a local park where they were treated to hot dogs and marshmallows, that could be considered hazing. it doesn't matter that it would be fun or that it would make them feel special, its the fact that it was required and the same thing wasn't done with the initiated members. any activity that distinguises the new members from the initiated can be considered hazing. unfortunately, it's another of those situations where innocent intentions are lumped with the worst intentions and it is all considered on the same level, therefore is all considered hazing. your best bet is to clear your idea with your national office.

IheartMATT806 · #21 10-04-2003, 04:57 PM

According to Nationals, this would be considered hazing to some extent. There are ways to get around this problem tho....as long as these "interviews" take place OFF campus as well as the other activites for "new members" stay away from campus then Nationals are less likly to get involved. It would end up being messy if the campus found out and labled the activites as "hazing." Also inform the "new members" that the events planned are not being forced upon them but would be looked down on if not completed. Bottom line: DO NOT involve the campus and make it seem like it is an option.

amazinglagirl · #22 10-09-2003, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by IheartMATT806
According to Nationals, this would be considered hazing to some extent. There are ways to get around this problem tho....as long as these "interviews" take place OFF campus as well as the other activites for "new members" stay away from campus then Nationals are less likly to get involved. It would end up being messy if the campus found out and labled the activites as "hazing." Also inform the "new members" that the events planned are not being forced upon them but would be looked down on if not completed. Bottom line: DO NOT involve the campus and make it seem like it is an option.

Well, on one hand, it looks like a tidy way to get around this....but let's call it what it is...just a creative way to tell yourself that something that isn't okay IS okay. Bottom line is, If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck....then, friends,...it's a DUCK!

And that is exactly what any prosecuting attorney or newspaper reporter who gets ahold of your hazing gone-bad situation will say to anyone who will listen, including a jury.

So, while you aren't likely to get fried for things like signatures, it is just one of those things that separates your members and sets up the culture that new members are somehow LESS valued and less entitled to brother/sisterhood and have to EARN their way in after they have already been chosen by you.

33girl · #23 10-09-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by amazinglagirl
So, while you aren't likely to get fried for things like signatures, it is just one of those things that separates your members and sets up the culture that new members are somehow LESS valued and less entitled to brother/sisterhood and have to EARN their way in after they have already been chosen by you.

How can something that allows sisters and nms to get together on a one to one basis "separate" the members? If anything, group activities 24/7 make the division between "the sisters" and "the pledges" even more pronounced since there's no one on one contact and you only see someone as a facet of a group instead of an individual. That's one reason we got rid of this sort of program.

and pleeeeeease, stick a fork in the duck reference, it's done.

emb021 · #24 10-09-2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by amazinglagirl

So, while you aren't likely to get fried for things like signatures, it is just one of those things that separates your members and sets up the culture that new members are somehow LESS valued and less entitled to brother/sisterhood and have to EARN their way in after they have already been chosen by you.

The purpose of getting signatures/doing interviews has NOTHING to do with creating a separation between pledges & members. The purpose of such activities is to get the pledges & the membership to meet and get to know one another. To use the 'you don't ask the members to get signatures, so asking the pledges to is hazing' doesn't fly with me. You DO ask/expect the members to meet & get to know the pledges. You DO ask/expect the pledges to meet & get to know the members. Signatures/interviews is the WAY to get this done in a more formalized manner.

#25 10-09-2003, 12:18 PM

I have always been told that hazing isn't an event you do with the pledges and it's something you'd do as well. For example, my chapter volunteers at Race for the Cure. The whole chapter does it at the same time and the New Members go with us. This isn't considered hazing because we all do it together. If you don't do it together (other than the New Member meetings) it is considered hazing.

SplitzSTG · #26 10-13-2003, 03:35 PM

We look at interviews as a great way for the Associates to get to know the brothers they may not see on a regular basis. There is no "do this for me and I'll give you an interview". Why? Because none of us went through that. The Associates are given an approved list of 25 questions, so they arent asking 'what is your favorite color?" and other useless queries.

At our chapter, all active brothers understand that an Associate will never be asked to do anything that the brother either hasnt done himself, or is not willing to do.

Our no hazing policy is strict, and hazing doesnt happen. If the Associates are given a task, there is always at least one brother with them during completion of said task. That way we can monitor behavior and maintain our chapter image as the campus leader.

So I say continue with the Interviews at your chapter. As long as the Education Program is well structured and has proper oversight by the executive board. It's not hazing in my eyes.

A task is hazing only when the motivation behind completion is the threat of force or disassociation.

DWAlphaGam · #27 10-14-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buttonz
We just have it that you have to go out for lunch/dinner with an active or spend at least an hour talkign to them...that is how I became close with my great great grand big

My chapter does something similar, but it's slightly more structured. Each week at the chapter meeting, they have each sister and new member pick a name out of a hat, and then they have to do something with that sister during that week. They can go to lunch or dinner (everyone has to eat, anyway, what better time to get together?), or they can hang out and watch tv or a movie, or whatever else they feel like doing together. It's a great way for everyone to get to get together with people they might not normally hang out with, which makes the sisterhood stronger as a whole.

tunatartare · #28 10-25-2003, 04:04 AM

At my school it's common practice to do interviews and all the GLO's have them. I think they're a great way for NM's and actives to get to know each other because it gives them time to bond and I can speak for us that when NM's interview us, we usually ask them stuff about themselves in return to get to know them better. It'a actually a lot of fun. You get to learn things about other people that you might not have learned otherwise.

cultural · #29 10-25-2003, 04:27 AM

Try the Fraternal Insurance Purchasing Group at www.FIPG.com, you can find a list of activities deemed as hazing or has the potential to cause hazing as well as healthy alternatives.

Hope this helps

angelic1 · #30 10-25-2003, 11:08 AM

Ok.. I know that I am jumping into this convo rather late, but I still wanted to comment.

This is just my thoughts on the issue of interviews,etc.

Why I think they are a issue (I'm sure that your chapters might handle them fine.. not saying you don't) is because I think in that past they have gotten out of hand at some schools/chapters. Making the pledges have to do chores, tasks for the members or the such in order to complete the interview/get the signature. Sure in theory it sounds alright, but it just takes a few groups to take things out of hand with it. The same with scavenger hunts.. looking around the house for some clues might sound harmless, but when some groups take it the extreme...

I know that in groups where this works for you it sucks.. my chapter has def faced this before and while its frustrating.. they are only looking out for you..