ABCNews.com Asking for Feedback About Hazing

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

I guess not -- didn't realize there were some that HAD been deleted.

[Rudey]

While you may not like the image, that's the image that a lot of people have about minority fraternities and sororities. Yes we may not know them at all but that is the image that we all have in our heads.

It doesn't help when you have people in these fraternities talking about how rough it is and how others might not make it. It doesn't help when you see kids branded and while they may not have been forced to get it and think it's cool, you once again associate it with pain immediately in your head. Even my friends in one asian fraternity would tell me that you have to treat it like the military. That just didn't sit well with ME.

Also I know on GC, it just sorta feels like as soon as any news comes out about this, it disappears from the general threads because Amycat is friends with some people that don't want those threads on there. I'm not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, but this creates this further image of people trying to hide something (not saying you are).

At the end of the day you'll tell me I know nothing about your org. That's fine. I don't. I'm just saying what the image a lot of people might have of those orgs. I personally have it with the fraternities. The sororities i see as being older women in phd's only because those were the only ones at MY school. You also don't have to care what anyone else's image is but if that's the case, don't flip out if they state what their impression is.

-Rudey
--That is all. I haven't been mean, so please don't take this as an opportunity to come at me.

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
Before we jump all over Hoosier, I'd like to note that usually Hoosier's posts are pretty fair.

We don't know Hoosier's background or how much information Hoosier has about any specific group. Additionally, I for one would be pretty upset if Hoosier brough up specific instances of a certain group hazing. Talk about bad press.

Hoosier is FAIR? I am lol at what UNfair must be then.

And clearly Hoosier has never been to FLORIDA where the hazing is equally rampant among all orgs regardless of racial makeup. BUT WAY TO OVERGENERALIZE THERE.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

wooo! ok! I take it back! uncle!

[lovelyivy84]

I only come at you when you act like an ass, because you deserve it.

I can't help it when other people have a wrong impression. To some degree I agree with SOME criticisms. But when they are uninformed AND have more to do with prejudice against a race of people than the NPHC, as in Hoosier's case, I will indeed comment.

Otherwise I will generally ignore them. I have done my time educating folks about black people and the NPHC. I am too through with all of that. If people want to pass some kind of judgement then that is their deal and nothing I say on the internet is going to change that. I learned that from lots of GC experience.

Originally posted by Rudey
While you may not like the image, that's the image that a lot of people have about minority fraternities and sororities. Yes we may not know them at all but that is the image that we all have in our heads.

It doesn't help when you have people in these fraternities talking about how rough it is and how others might not make it. It doesn't help when you see kids branded and while they may not have been forced to get it and think it's cool, you once again associate it with pain immediately in your head. Even my friends in one asian fraternity would tell me that you have to treat it like the military. That just didn't sit well with ME.

Also I know on GC, it just sorta feels like as soon as any news comes out about this, it disappears from the general threads because Amycat is friends with some people that don't want those threads on there. I'm not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong, but this creates this further image of people trying to hide something (not saying you are).

At the end of the day you'll tell me I know nothing about your org. That's fine. I don't. I'm just saying what the image a lot of people might have of those orgs. I personally have it with the fraternities. The sororities i see as being older women in phd's only because those were the only ones at MY school. You also don't have to care what anyone else's image is but if that's the case, don't flip out if they state what their impression is.

-Rudey
--That is all. I haven't been mean, so please don't take this as an opportunity to come at me.

[FSUZeta]

i take exception to libra's comment that "all orgs. in florida haze".
i live in florida, was initiated in florida and work with some collegiate chapters and can truthfully say that i have not seen any hazing with these chapters. but then, that is the trouble when we generalize. lisa

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
i take exception to libra's comment that "all orgs. in florida haze".
i live in florida, was initiated in florida and work with some collegiate chapters and can truthfully say that i have not seen any hazing with these chapters. but then, that is the trouble when we generalize. lisa

Okay I am assuming that FSU means Florida State which happens to be my alma mater. MY generalization was actually somewhat sardonic. I was trying to show Hoosier's fallacious logic by doing it from the other perspective (it somehow becomes more clear if it is something you disagree with...odd).

Now, that being said, let us be honest. We both go or have gone to FSU. Are you saying there is no hazing among the Greek orgs there, be it white or black?

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by lovelyivy84


I can't help it when other people have a wrong impression. To some degree I agree with SOME criticisms. But when they are uninformed AND have more to do with prejudice against a race of people than the NPHC, as in Hoosier's case, I will indeed comment.

I'm going to agree with this. I think we can all admit that NPHC organizations do have a problem with hazing, and Rudey's point that there are some members out there perpetuating the "if you didn't get hazed, you're not worthy" mindset is true. But to pretend that this is a problem and an attitude unique to NPHC organizations? Give me a break. From my experience, it is just as prevalent among many NIC fraternities (and to a lesser extent the NPC sororities). If you search through this forum, I'd guess that far and away the NIC fraternity hazing incidents outnumber the NPHC ones. At least the visible incidents, that is -- but that's another issue entirely.

Come on, you guys, let's not act so high and mighty. No matter what organization you're associated with -- NPC, NIC, NPHC, NALFO -- there are chapters of your group that haze. No matter what your HQ's policy says. Let's not try to shove this problem off on one group like it's only their issue to deal with. We as Greeks are all susceptible to hazing, and we all need to work on finding solutions.

[FSUZeta]

yes libra, fsu stands for florida state. and i can truthfully say that
my chapter does not haze. it is the only organization that i have personal knowledge of. and i have never seen any hazing at our chapter at uf, miami or fl. southern. we have other chapters in the state, but i am not familiar with them. if the majority of npc sororities still haze,i would be very surprised. the consequences are too risky if their nationals found out. we can refer to the post about the wake forest u. sorority hazing for that. of course there are exceptions to every rule. and by the way, go noles!!! lisa

*chapters at uf, miami and fl. southern

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
yes libra, fsu stands for florida state. and i can truthfully say that
my chapter does not haze. it is the only organization that i have personal knowledge of. and i have never seen any hazing at our chapter at uf, miami or fl. southern. we have other chapters in the state, but i am not familiar with them. if the majority of npc sororities still haze,i would be very surprised. the consequences are too risky if their nationals found out. we can refer to the post about the wake forest u. sorority hazing for that. of course there are exceptions to every rule. and by the way, go noles!!! lisa

*chapters at uf, miami and fl. southern

Well I didn't mean your organization specifically. I was speaking in more general terms.

(sugar and spice actually said exactly what I wanted to in a far more eloquent fashion).

P.S. Tally ho will be so hyped next Saturday when we beat Miami.

[hoosier]

"Have you seen some of his posts before they are deleted?"

Outside of one stupid attempt at humor in Greek Letters, I know of no post of mine which has been deleted.

It is a true perception, I think, that the black (especially male) fraternities are frequent hazers. For the small number of chapters, and their general small size, they generate a lot of bad publicity.

If you look at the most recently posted bad publicity, the Wal-Mart's sock stealing girls are named Jamila and Renita. I think I know that they are from a black Greek group, although the name was never mentioned.

The consequences of black GLO hazing are frequently hidden too. If XYZ has 12 members at the U of OOO and they meet at some member's apartment, the dean can suspend them and few will notice. If ATO has 80 members and 20 pledges and a big house across from the Student Center, and they are suspended, pretty soon everybody knows and sees the empty house.

Here on GC, a "third rail" has been laid - and if you touch the third rail you will get dissed or worse by lovelyivy, librasoul, and their ilk. The third rail is race. What a shame.

PS: I have been to almost every campus in FL.

Originally posted by hoosier
Another concern is the double standard. This fall there have been reports of hazing at the Michigan State women's soccer team, Maryland (M &F) lacrosse, Nebraska football, and Texas A&M band and spirit club. In all of these cases, the participants/teams/coaches got slaps on the wrist. In the worst case, at Maryland, the hazers got suspended from games, but the suspensions end before the season starts. Athletics can haze with little fear, but even minor fraternity/sorority hazing is a death knell for a chapter. That's a classic double standard.

Good luck with your efforts.

Um,

Texas A&M has no "spirit club"

please be more specific. And i will attest that hazing does occur in the Band and in the Corps of Cadets, but most often it is swept under the rug by the administration. Mostly because the admin is composed of former cadets. Due to that, and A&M's anti-greek atmosphere, Greek incidents are blown out of proportion while Corps incidents ususally dont' see the light of day.

Kitso
KS 361 times that an A&M "spirit club" is news to me

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by rho4life
Under a broad enough definition, all Greeks haze. We all can agree that last year's AKA drowning death in Southern Cal was a tragedy. But it was tragic due to the loss of life, not because of the org they were interested in, or the color of their skin.

Under a broad enough definition maybe 10 years ago? Because I can surely tell you that the organizations at University of Michigan-Dearborn (at least the Greeks) DO NOT haze.

Altho sometimes I wish we did... like interviews and stuff. My pledge period was boring and I never became close with my Phi sisters or the actives during that time.

[lovelyivy84]

Hoosier, you get attacked regularly on several different issues. Race is hardly the only thing people have issues with you about, but if you feel that's your biggest problem I can only agree. When it comes to the topic of race, you do have a problem. Congratulations on acknowledging it.

GC is actually a perfect example of why talking at people about stereotypes and prejudice changes nothing. You see the BGLO forums here. Many of you post there from time to time. You see us, chat with us, and pretend to be cool but in the END your assumptions about our organizations are not changed. You know us as individuals, but you still only see the big stereotype.

That's why I don't bother. I am here to hang and chat about lighthearted topics. Not politics and definitely not race. You only got a response from me on this AT ALL because you are attacking my organization.

SO let me state this and end my involvement in this thread:

Hoosier-
You know nothing about BGLOs.
You know nothing about Alpha Kappa Alpha's anti-hazing policies or what steps the organization took to prevent something like the tragedy that you are using to justify your ridiculous misconceptions.
You're not interesting in learning about either, but you sure do love judging.
To be fair, you love to judge everyone and that seems to be your major function on GC. Once again, congratulations. I hope that it keeps you warm at night.

Edited for spelling

[moe.ron]

lovelyivy84, well said.