Religion vs. sorority/frat

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by focus
Your right, only He can make that call. But God does have messengers to do His work here on earth.

And I'm assuming that you believe that you are one of them??

[focus]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
And I'm assuming that you believe that you are one of them??

Maybe, maybe not, Im not claiming to be an Aposlte or a Priest or anything. I'm just planting a seed with hopes that it will fall on fertile ground and the world will be just a little better when the seed has been sown. And by that I dont mean making the world a better place by dicouraging others from joing Greek organizations, because that is not my intentions. Im just trying to clarify why those Christ-like people who have already chosen not to join decided not to join. Because there is a lot of jugement from both sides of the fence and no one wants to take time to really listen to what the other has to say (I am even guilty of that some times, thats I why I do a lot of research before I make decisions).

I know that Greek orgs. take a lot of unnessary mess and such from those proclaiming to be Christian, but whether you believe it or not those Christ-like people who choose not to join get a lot more unnessary mess (because they are the minority in comparison), atleast on college campuses for believing the way they believe. A greek org. on my campus recently held an event targeted specifically at Christians with the intentions on making Chist-like people who dont join greek orgs. look like the "bad ones." I just wish everyone would accept each other more and not see each other as the enemy.

[f8nacn]

I think there are more important places to "plant seeds" than spreading information on whether or not joining a fraternity/sorority is of God or if itsn't of God. There are people doing things contrary to His Word right there in your community, those who have a noninterest in Greek organizations that your seeds can be planted, watered, and spring forth a harvest. I believe you have a heart to serve God; however, are you being "fruitful" here? Are your "opinions" "seeds" "wisdom" being taken seriously and is it falling on fertile ground. Reevaluate your motives and what God is truly telling you to do. I believe you have the potential to be a "Great witness"...but anyone can change their identity/stance on the internet.

...Food for thought.

[focus]

Originally posted by f8nacn
I think there are more important places to "plant seeds" than spreading information on whether or not joining a fraternity/sorority is of God or if itsn't of God. There are people doing things contrary to His Word right there in your community, those who have a noninterest in Greek organizations that your seeds can be planted, watered, and spring forth a harvest. I believe you have a heart to serve God; however, are you being "fruitful" here? Are your "opinions" "seeds" "wisdom" being taken seriously and is it falling on fertile ground. Reevaluate your motives and what God is truly telling you to do. I believe you have the potential to be a "Great witness"...but anyone can change their identity/stance on the internet.

...Food for thought.

Thanks for the imput, your right, there are a lot of people in the community that could use a planted seed and I try to help out when I can. But again, maybe i wasn't clear, Im not trying to "plant seeds" on whether or not joing a fraternity/sorority is of God or not. I am trying to plant seeds on why some Christ-like people decide not to join, so that misconceptions can get cleared up between two groups with different ideas. With the hopes that confusion and anamosity towards one another doesn't build.

[AKA_Monet]

^^^It seems that there is a basic lack of understanding how affiliates of the NPHC generally operate. Because I can see how you may be missing the point.

We all know where your idealism exists on becoming closer to God and becoming more Christlike. No one here is critical of that. In fact most of us support your pursuit and hope you attain that, which you seek.

Just to give you more information, all of the NPHC organizations have officers on their "executive boards" that are elected as "chaplains" to mainly minister to their members. This officer position is essential during times of loss, when a member dies. Members who have died have either a public or private ceremony (depending on familial requests) due to their service to their respective NPHC organization and the ceremony has extremely strong Christian overtones. I am not only speaking of my Sorority, but for other NPHC organizations also. In fact several Christian Biblical verses are used in these ceremonies.

That is because the history of the NPHC organizations were founded by Christians and they derived their principles based on what they knew in their churches.

You have not observed the magnitude of various NPHC organizations because you only see what is on your single college campus. And other than your family's choice and a few other situations unknown to all of us "regulars on GC", we are unable to see what exactly you trying to tell us other than what we already know.

From my supposition, apparently, you have just attended some function on your college campus that an NPHC organization had that discussed why those who call themselves Christians refuse to be a part of their organiztion, but form another organization that uses greek symbols and does all the attributes of the NPHC--such as stepping, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong?

Outside of that non-NPHC members stepping discussion alone, and the fact that this discussion should take place in the Greeklife topic thread rather than the AKA Ave or any other NPHC Sorority discussion GC board, there is a bone of contention that one has to take with those who choose outside of the NPHC but want all the accoutrements of that of the NPHC...

Then you stated hazing as a "fact of life". Well it is not... What is hazing? I call it hitting, making someone do things inappropriately to gain membership, degrading and demeaning someone's existance. And if I call myself a Christian, why would I trying to terrorize or belittle someone only to make them my soror later? That is stupid and I am not into that... And I can say that my Sorority is not into that either... And although I do not know all my sorors on the planet, I can say the majority of the ones I have met and come to know are not into that either...

Besides, if one is strong with the Will of God in him or her, then no one can make him or her do anything against God's will...

I think you know the Bible quite well and continue with that, but you have a lack of life experiences, and you have not lived, generally... You are pious, when you need to have more faith... You need more synthesis, bringing it all together for completeness and that comes over time... Bottomline, Who is ultimately "running this show" on Earth???

[focus]

Originally posted by AKA_Monet
^^^

You have not observed the magnitude of various NPHC organizations because you only see what is on your single college campus. And other than your family's choice and a few other situations unknown to all of us "regulars on GC", we are unable to see what exactly you trying to tell us other than what we already know.

From my supposition, apparently, you have just attended some function on your college campus that an NPHC organization had that discussed why those who call themselves Christians refuse to be a part of their organiztion, but form another organization that uses greek symbols and does all the attributes of the NPHC--such as stepping, etc. Please correct me if I am wrong?

Then you stated hazing as a "fact of life". Well it is not... What is hazing? I call it hitting, making someone do things inappropriately to gain membership, degrading and demeaning someone's existance. And if I call myself a Christian, why would I trying to terrorize or belittle someone only to make them my soror later? That is stupid and I am not into that... And I can say that my Sorority is not into that either... And although I do not know all my sorors on the planet, I can say the majority of the ones I have met and come to know are not into that either...

My extinct of knowledge about greek life goes a lot further than you may think. But I can see how you would assume I am only knowledgeable about my campus. Actually, my campus isn't big on greek life, most of the groups are suspended. But my knowledge comes from a lot of research and observation of other groups at other schools. Actually, I have a lot of friends that are greek. No, they aren't living Holy lives (but I don't judge them either way). And, Im not doubting that God exist within many greek orgs. Actually, I am sure He does. What I am saying is that some Christ-like people feel like it is too hard to live a Holy life while being apart of these orgs. so they either don't join or denounce membership or whatever.

As far as hazing...well I know thats a touchy topic and I don't want to try to make greek orgs look bad so I am just going to leave that alone. But I know that you can't be that naive to know what goes on in undergrad....all one has to do is look on sites like facebook or myspace to see what members of greek orgs. write about the process.

[teena]

Focus,

Sisterfriend, I think I can see where you are coming from and I respect your opinion. I agree with much that has been said here. I have also done research on this topic for a while and have come up short because the answers that I seek are not found on the internet but by face to face or direct contact/observation of people. Consider this:

People who are members of BGLO and find no conflict with their walk with Christ rarely (unless in response to a direct question) post a lengthy discussion/description of how the two co-exist, unless they are in elevated positions in ministry. The regular everyday person will not put themselves out there to have their Christianity or their GL affiliation attacked. (You can never defend your Christianity enough because people will purposely miss your point and search for fault in you, ex. reread this thread). It is difficult to prove your Christianity.

Next, your reasoning for why Christians are turned of by BGLO's is based on an individual perspective. I can have a perspective that people who use the internet are going to Hell because it takes time away from service and praying. For some people that very well may be true, but others (who use the internet moderately and as biblical research) that doesnt apply. So that will required individual assessment.

Lastly, the issue that you pose and the forum in which you pose it are going to be a bit sore. Many of the responses to you issue were done in respect. But please believe it can get very ugly and disrespectful, thus proving your point about members of BGLO's. It is the equivalent of going to someone's house and saying people who live in this neighborhood are uneducated, ignorant and dirty. Expect to get dissed (I have learned this lesson courtesy of GC).

Sum it up, more research is needed, Christians generally dont want to be attacked because of their faith or afffiliations and when you go to people house and ask them why there is so much dust on the coffee table, expect them to get offended-do not include the responses in your research.

Be blessed

[Strongbeauty]

Greetings everyone,
First I'd like to start off by saying I too, have been dealing with this very question. I may not be as knowledgeable as Focus, but I've researched the topic a little. I do agree with Focus that God oftimes sends messengers to help us understand those things that we cannot understand on our own. For the Bible tells us that in all of our getting, we needs to get understanding. To AlphaFrog, Focus may not eb the messenger that you need but may be one for someone else.
I think the problem that many people have (Christians) is that many in BGLOs say that their orgs were founded on Christian principles, yet they can never name what these principles are. Service is good, but it goes beyond feeding the homeless and marching... are you seeking to save souls? Does the service that you perform glorify God or does it glorify the organization? (please see Matthew 6:1-4)

Another point is that because they allow people from all faiths (I am not saying this is a bad thing, but someone asked for the Biblical presepective)... 2 Corinthans 6:14-17 says 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

There also should not be violence (hazing). That can be found in Matthew 5:38-39 (this scripture would also be helpful for those who feel that just because they went through hazing, it must continue). There could also be do display of pride or self exhaltion.(Matthew 23:12). There would not be homosexual activity of the condoning therefore (Romans 1:24-32)

Finally just because something starts off based in Christianity, does not mean that it continues in it. The Bible says that we can lose our savour, please reference Matthew 5:13. I hope this helps to clarify some of the debate.

[NewBee]

A long time ago I came to the conclusion that joining a traditional glo wasn't for me as a Christian.( I know its not for everyone) One of the main biblical references for me was the verse that StrongBeauty quoted which says that you should not be bound to an unbeliever (2 Corinthians 6:14). Most greeks I know would agree that joining a greek org is a lot like marriage and despite various interpretations of that verse whether people say it refers to marriage or not, the sentiment is that we shouldn't be bound to people of different faiths. The bible says what we bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Christians know the power in their toungues and if you are making vows and the like binding yourself to people who may not be saved... I realize that seems a little extreme but I hope you get my point. The bible also says that you will know a tree by its fruits. And despite all the wonderful community service that glo's do, its sad to say its tarnished by the hazing incindents, parties, and just the elitist attitude that separates greeks from non-greeks. But regardless of all this, let's say hypothetically speaking, GOD gave someone confirmation that greek life wasn't for them for whatever reason. How many people would give it up to please GOD? Its my humble opinion that most people have a hard time being faithful in the small things, i.e tithing, not having sex outside of marriage, praying, etc., so how can you expect most people to really live their lives in a way to please GOD? How many people seek the kingdom of GOD first and wait for GOD to supply their hearts desires, self included? Getting of my soap box, I don't think GLOs are any more evil than the rest of the world and I think the church makes a mistake to imply that. I don't think they are evil at all, they do a lot of good for the community, probably sometimes more than the church as far as serving the community. But, they are definetly worldly organizations that came from roots of masonry, and much the symbolism used in glos is in direct opposition of Christianity.

[NewBee]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
And I'm assuming that you believe that you are one of them??

All Christians are supposed to be messengers of GOD. Its called the Great Commission. Be blessed.

[RedefinedDiva]

NewBee, StrongBeauty, and Focus: Do you ladies attend Christian universities?

[Strongbeauty]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
NewBee, StrongBeauty, and Focus: Do you ladies attend Christian universities?

I graduated from a secular university for my ugrad degree. I am attending a seminary now but if this is going where I think it could be going, I will say that I did not take an oath or vow to my university.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by Strongbeauty
I graduated from a secular university for my ugrad degree. I am attending a seminary now but if this is going where I think it could be going, I will say that I did not take an oath or vow to my university.

Please don't make assumptions. I was simply asking a question.... No need to get defensive in advance.

Another question for the same three: Did you join a site specifically targeted to Greeks simply to come in and tell Greeks how wrong their choice is?

[NewBee]

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
Please don't make assumptions. I was simply asking a question.... No need to get defensive in advance.

Another question for the same three: Did you join a site specifically targeted to Greeks simply to come in and tell Greeks how wrong their choice is?

I do not go to a Christian university. When I joined the site back in 2001, I was an interest. Since then, well, alot has changed. None of the people who made comments about greek organizations not being compatible with the Christian lifestyle started this thread, so I would assume that we are all just having a healthy debate and replying to topics that catch our attention as you are. My intent in responding to this post was not to offend anyone or to tell anyone that the choice they made was wrong. Rather, I hoped to show why some Christians whether former interests or former greeks do not feel as if being in a glo is compatible with their Christian walk.

[Lady of Pearl]

One can not condemn a sorority or frat for coming between them and their religion. I think its about having a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. In the final analysis your religion or church or sorority or frat won't save you. Only Jesus saves! I believe it is one's choice as to how they perceive their walk with God in relationship to their GLO. As one matures and or develops a personal relationship with God, the organization will propose no conflict with one's beliefs. As an undergrad I did things differently while in college-so I have learned to put away some childish things. Christianity is a maturing process and one doesn't get there overnight! Some religions are too legalistic in their views and judge anything that is not according to their doctrine. As my Bishop said in this morning's sermon- don't just go to church and isolate one's self, Jesus went among those in the world. Christians are in the world but not of the world. We should be a bridge to help someone to know Christ.