New Alcohol Policy

The official Panhel Website is being updated but various schools have posted the policy on their websites

<www.users.muohio.edu/saf/mmge/AlcoholContextSummary.htm>

<www.unc.edu/depts/greek/RM70.htm>

[RUgreek]

Panhel,

Thanks for your post, I read through the web sites but I didn't see anything about the facilities policy or support policy in the resolution. Perhaps there is another document in more detail that isn't available yet for us to read? However, just by reading all that, I really think the main concern here is money. The statistics bring up higher insurance costs and how much cheaper things will be without alcohol. Don't get me wrong, alcohol is a definite financial risk, but wouldn't spending more money on alcohol awareness programs, tips training, and other activities be more important than passing resolutions? I know alcohol is a problem at colleges, but if you say its all because of the greeks then what does that do? People will think that as long as they are not greek, they won't have an alcohol problem and not join greek organizations. Maybe I'm not completely understanding the purpose of all these anti-alcohol policies, but I do know that making activities for everyone is more important than passing rules without alternatives being offered. I really hope that everyone involved in creating these policies doesn't stop when everyone ratifies them, because your work is just beginning if you want to eliminate alcohol-related deaths.

RUgreek

[FlyPhi]

i didn't realize that all the other sororities are having to deal with this too!

[Kevin]

Is the policy discussed in this thread still around?

I was never aware.

[WCUgirl]

Originally posted by ktsnake
Is the policy discussed in this thread still around?

I was never aware.

Yes.

For Alpha Xi, we can co-sponsor a function at a men's fraternity house if that fraternity is dry.

We can co-sponsor a function with a men's fraternity that is not dry if said function is held off-campus w/ a licensed 3rd party vendor.

[WCUgirl]

I went back and did some searching. Here's another thread that discusses this policy briefly.

It's amazing - here it is, four years later, and there's still misconceptions about how the policy works.

[Erik P Conard]

Somewhere along the line I missed something...
As a field rep in the 50s, the rank and file men's groups had
no booze in the house, period.
We had no keggers, recognized, and never, ever, had booze
on our breath whilst greeting school officials or visitors.
We did not piss on the Pike porch or vomit in the Beta house.
We were expected to use DISCRETION, manners, and obey the
existing (under/over 21 laws). If we were to break these laws,
we had private gatherings, away from the house, and took our
chances. We did not flaunt it...
Risk Management and the administrative structures of colleges
have changed all this. Young people, defiant, insist on drinking
in the house, rejecting housemothers, and they have reaped the
consequences. As a Board member for decades, I will not be in
support of in-house boozing nor overtly condone underage drinking. Dumb, plain dumb. Why allow the neophytes to get
fall down drunk, and then tell the world we are responsible and
trying to educate for brotherhood.
You guys, not us old ones, are the ones who are pottying in your
chili...and it is heartbreaking to try to pick up the pieces.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by AXiD670
Yes.

For Alpha Xi, we can co-sponsor a function at a men's fraternity house if that fraternity is dry.

We can co-sponsor a function with a men's fraternity that is not dry if said function is held off-campus w/ a licensed 3rd party vendor.

Now how does a fraternity that does not have a dry only policy, yet has a "dry house" fit in all this? Does the "dry house" take precedent over the "wet fraternity"?

In other words, say ABC does not have a dry policy yet has a chapter on a campus that is dry. By *definition* ABC's chapter is a dry house "on this campus". Does Alpha Xi - or other sororities - allow for their Alpha Xi chapter to have an event at the ABC house?

And what would happen if you went to another campus? Say you went to a football game on another campus and went to a fraternity that happened to be "wet", yet on your campus, was dry?

Y'all know what. After reading all this, I think I need a drink.

[33girl]

Originally posted by TSteven
Now how does a fraternity that does not have a dry only policy, yet has a "dry house" fit in all this? Does the "dry house" take precedent over the "wet fraternity"?

In other words, say ABC does not have a dry policy yet has a chapter on a campus that is dry. By *definition* ABC's chapter is a dry house "on this campus". Does Alpha Xi - or other sororities - allow for their Alpha Xi chapter to have an event at the ABC house?

And what would happen if you went to another campus? Say you went to a football game on another campus and went to a fraternity that happened to be "wet", yet on your campus, was dry?

Y'all know what. After reading all this, I think I need a drink.

I would say it depends on the individual chapter. TKE isn't dry nationally, but if they are on your campus for whatever reason, A Xi D can mix with them in their house. If you go to another campus and want to party with that TKE chapter and they are wet, you can't go to their house, you have to go to a TPV.

[AGDee]

That original post was 4 years ago.. and still nobody understands it. I'd say that means it's a bad policy.

I believe AGDs stance is that we are not to have alcohol parties in fraternity houses that are supposed to be dry. So we support their dryness and do not go against their Fraternity's policy. I remember sending reminders to my chapters that they weren't allowed to have parties with alcohol with that list of Fraternities.


Dee

[RUgreek]

Originally posted by AGDee
That original post was 4 years ago.. and still nobody understands it. I'd say that means it's a bad policy.

I believe AGDs stance is that we are not to have alcohol parties in fraternity houses that are supposed to be dry. So we support their dryness and do not go against their Fraternity's policy. I remember sending reminders to my chapters that they weren't allowed to have parties with alcohol with that list of Fraternities.


Dee

Damn I must be old, I remember that post and my entries back in 2000 The policy there is still stupid in my opinion. I don't see any improvements or changes in safety of greek members because of it and I still believe alternative methods would have been cheaper and more effective. I'd be interested to hear if any group at all saw benefits from the alcohol policies. Party safe, that's all I think should be noted.


RUgreek

[Little E]

So I'm slightly confused.

No NPC Org is allowed to have alcohol in their house? Is that anyhouse which is defined as a sorority residence? No matter if it is college owned or sorority property?

And I've never understood the whole thing about wet/dry parties. We used to have a fraternity invite the entire sorority (plus other women not in AST) Some would go, some wouldn't. So that is against policy??

I really don't get these policies, they seem so unclear.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Little E
So I'm slightly confused.

No NPC Org is allowed to have alcohol in their house? Is that anyhouse which is defined as a sorority residence? No matter if it is college owned or sorority property?

And I've never understood the whole thing about wet/dry parties. We used to have a fraternity invite the entire sorority (plus other women not in AST) Some would go, some wouldn't. So that is against policy??

I really don't get these policies, they seem so unclear.

The wet/dry parties thing only applies to mixers, i.e. co-sponsored parties/events for a sorority and a fraternity only. If a fraternity has an open or guest list party and says "hey AST, whoever wants to come down, come on down" that's OK. Unless of course your sorority defines an event as 2-3-4 or more people whether it's co-sponsored or not, then either only one of you can go or the party must be dry.

A sorority house can be defined as sorority property, college property, or Joe the random off-campus landlord's property. If it gives the "appearance" of being a sorority house or is acknowledged as the sorority's house by the campus community it's subject to this policy. What "appearance" consists of varies. A sorority can live in an off-campus house that the national contributes no money to, that only the girls who live in pay to upkeep (i.e. no parlor fees) and that has no letters on the outside, but if people refer to it as the AST house, it has to be alcohol free.

and yes, this is all STOO PID.

[WCUgirl]

Okay, this 2 or more thing is really throwing ya'll off, I think. Lol.

For us, it's not a literal translation (this is what I've always been told, which of course could be wrong. There are many AZD's on here who I'm sure will correct me if I am). It's like, if 2 or more Alpha Xis were to get together, that means that we should not act in any way that would disgrace our fraternity or cause us to incur liability (i.e. hazing the pledges, forcing someone to drink, running around campus naked, etc.) because that could be construed as a sorority function if we were to get sued. Really, we use it as a reminder of how we should act, b/c as we all know here on GC, you represent your GLO 24 hours a day, whether you're drinking at the bar w/o letters on or if you're grocery shopping for your sick mother.

However, If XYZ fraternity is throwing a party on Friday night, and a brother comes up to one of us in Econ Friday afternoon and says, "Hey, we're partying tonight, tell all your sisters," then that's fine. Whomever wants to go can go. That is in no way a co-sponsored event. If all but 5 of the chapter members go to the party, then by definition, it's still not a chapter event.

For us, we are supposed to abide by all state & nat'l laws. So guess what - it's un-AZD like to drink if you're under 21. It's un-AZD like to use illegal drugs. Whether it's one sister or twelve, we're not supposed to do those things. So, if all the sisters that went out to the XYZ party were 21, then they're allowed to drink. The ones that are not 21, if they are drinking, and something were to happen to them, well then of course AZD would get into trouble if one of the sisters were to have provided them w/ the alcohol. However, if no sisters provided her w/ the alcohol, and the brothers of XYZ did, then they would be the ones to get into trouble.

As for the sorority property thing, I guess it depends on your GLO's national rules for whether or not you're supposed to be alcohol-free. For us, if it's something on-campus that isn't an official house (i.e. a hall), it's treated as if it's a sorority property, although it's not technically a sorority property. For example, my undergrad chapter had a hall, and we were supposed to follow all university rules regarding alcohol in the rooms (although we were also supposed to follow AZD rules regarding no alcohol), max. number of persons in the room, etc. If we didn't fill the hall, it's not like we lost the hall, the university would simply assign non-sisters in the remaining spots.

And 33-girl, how many girls have to live in that off-campus house for it to be alcohol-free? I've never heard that one before.

edited b/c i mistyped something. sorry!

[WCUgirl]

Okay, I guess maybe b/c we are one of the groups that has this policy in place, I just don't understand why everyone is so confused.

Here is AXiD670's simplified interpretation of this policy:

• Dry fraternity, dry house - can co-sponsor a mixer with them at their house.
• Wet fraternity, dry house - can co-sponsor a mixer w/ them at their house.
• Wet fraternity, wet house - can co-sponsor a mixer w/ them at a licensed, 3rd party vendor.

All this new rule means is that if the XYZ house is a wet house, we cannot co-sponsor a function w/ them at their house.

Our rules explicity state that the policy does not restrict any member's independent attendance at a fraternity event that is in compliance w/ any applicable state, nat'l or local laws, or university regulations.

As far as a Friday night party at the XYZ house goes, it's a free-for-all. Tailgating, another free-for-all. As long as each individual member is complying w/ any and all applicable laws or regulations, neither she nor the sorority has anything to worry about.

Edited to further explain: If XYZ has a wet house, and they are throwing a Friday night open party, then yes, AZD members can attend this party, b/c it is not a co-sponsored mixer.