NY Times: Who's Unpatriotic Now?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by docetboy
Everyone thought we would still be fighting now.

Aren't we?

The troops are still there and American servicepeople are still being killed and wounded. The huge battles are over, the war isn't.

I would feel a lot better about the administrations decisions if even one weapon of mass destruction had been found.

Perhaps they still will.

There is no question in my mind, however, that the President decided on the course he wanted to take, and was not above "bending" alleged intelligence to send us on that course.

I've lived during a lot of administrations, and televised every president since Nixon. Whether President Bush is "great" is something for history to decide.

Jimmy Carter was not seen as a great president at the time, but is now considered one of the great American Statesmen of history.

Bush's legacy, though, will be greatly affected by this military action and the economy which the war is certainly not helping.

I'll decide, as will most people, with the benefit of hindsite.

[Munchkin03]

What he said!

[docetboy]

The smoking gun ladies and gentlemen: The same democrats who are criticizing WMD now and Bush's comments are the same ones who earlier in the year and last year proclaimed how Saddam's progress has always been underestimated, that he does have WMD, and that we must take Saddam out. Funny how their views suddenly change when they see an opportunity to strike at Bush.


Senator John F. Kerry (D, MA), January 23, 2003:
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an ooppressive regime...He presents a particularly grievious threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation...And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for Weapons of Mass Destruction...So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."

Senator Bob Graham (D, FL), December 8, 2002:
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and hashad for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production oand storage of weapons of mass destruction."

Senator Hillary Clinton (D, NY), October 10, 2002:
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members...It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

Representative Henry Waxman (D, CA), October 10, 2002:
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."

Senator Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), October 10, 2002:
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggresively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in the development of weapons of mass destruction."

Senator John F. Kerry (D, MA), October 9, 2002:
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

Senator Robert Byrd (D, WV), October 3, 2002:
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. WE are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of achemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."

Senator Ted Kennedy (D, MA), September 23, 2002:
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."

Al Gore, September 23, 2002:
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."

Senator Carl Levin (D, MI), September 19, 2002:
"We begin that witht he common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the Uninted Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."

Letter to President Bush, Signed by Senator Bob Graham (D, FL) and Others, December 5, 2001:
"There is no b=doubt that...Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the conver of a liit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."

Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, November 10, 1999:
"Hussein has...chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."

Representative Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), December 16, 1998:
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."

Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Dasle, John Kerry, and others, October 9, 1998:
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary ations (including, if appropiate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sities) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, February 18, 1998:
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."

Madeleine Albright, February 18, 1998:
"Iraq is al ong way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."

President Clinton, February 17, 1998:
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posted by Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction program."

President Clinton, February 4, 1998:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."

[The1calledTKE]

Just because we personally want to know where thw wmd are doesn't have anything to do with the politicans. I never claimed they didn't say those things.

On the Clinto quote it's funny the Republicans attacked Clinto when he sent cruise missles at Iraq in 98, said it was because of the impeachment thing. Now they think he was right? lol

[docetboy]

Just to clarify myself personally: I supported Clinton's many day-long wars into Iraq and always felt he did not go far enough...even in 1998 during the Lewinsky scandal.

[enlightenment06]

Originally posted by docetboy
The smoking gun ladies and gentlemen: The same democrats who are criticizing WMD now and Bush's comments are the same ones who earlier in the year and last year proclaimed how Saddam's progress has always been underestimated, that he does have WMD, and that we must take Saddam out. Funny how their views suddenly change when they see an opportunity to strike at Bush.


Senator John F. Kerry (D, MA), January 23, 2003:
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an ooppressive regime...He presents a particularly grievious threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation...And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for Weapons of Mass Destruction...So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."

Senator Bob Graham (D, FL), December 8, 2002:
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and hashad for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production oand storage of weapons of mass destruction."

Senator Hillary Clinton (D, NY), October 10, 2002:
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members...It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

Representative Henry Waxman (D, CA), October 10, 2002:
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."

Senator Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), October 10, 2002:
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggresively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in the development of weapons of mass destruction."

Senator John F. Kerry (D, MA), October 9, 2002:
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

Senator Robert Byrd (D, WV), October 3, 2002:
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. WE are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of achemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."

Senator Ted Kennedy (D, MA), September 23, 2002:
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."

Al Gore, September 23, 2002:
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."

Senator Carl Levin (D, MI), September 19, 2002:
"We begin that witht he common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the Uninted Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."

Letter to President Bush, Signed by Senator Bob Graham (D, FL) and Others, December 5, 2001:
"There is no b=doubt that...Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the conver of a liit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."

Madeleine Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, November 10, 1999:
"Hussein has...chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."

Representative Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), December 16, 1998:
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."

Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Dasle, John Kerry, and others, October 9, 1998:
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary ations (including, if appropiate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sities) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, February 18, 1998:
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."

Madeleine Albright, February 18, 1998:
"Iraq is al ong way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."

President Clinton, February 17, 1998:
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posted by Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction program."

President Clinton, February 4, 1998:
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."

The Democratice Party is a reactionist organization with no real political agenda. Don't worry about Democratic vs. Republican, this is about real people's lives

[GeekyPenguin]

Disarmament and invading a country and throwing out their government are two different things.

Tomorrow in PoliSci 101, the Judicial Branch.

[docetboy]

Funny, because our attempts at disarmament failed. The next step? In order to ensure disarmament, we remove the government from power, and disarmament is accomplished.

Tommorrow in Common Sense 101, Thinking about something for more than a second...

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by docetboy
Funny, because our attempts at disarmament failed. The next step? In order to ensure disarmament, we remove the government from power, and disarmament is accomplished.

Tommorrow in Common Sense 101, Thinking about something for more than a second...

We didn't try very hard - he was itching for a war. Now all we've done is taken the "weapons" out of the hands of the government (where we knew who we were dealing with) and left them to rogues.

And btw, what is your hero doing in North Korea?

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by enlightenment06
Don't worry about Democratic vs. Republican, this is about real people's lives

Being someone who has voted for as many Republican as Democratic presidents -- and being registered in neither party, I can say:

Amen.

[DWAlphaGam]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=3142325


Think Tank Gives U.S. Homeland Security 'D' Grade

Wed July 23, 2003 09:36 AM ET
By Deborah Charles

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration has been slow to tighten domestic security and has failed to spend enough on some essential programs, a center-left think tank said on Wednesday.

The Progressive Policy Institute (PPI), which has ties to the Democratic Leadership Council, gave the government a "D" grade in its report card on homeland security and said much improvement was needed.

"In spite of satisfactory results in a few areas, taken as a whole, the Bush administration's efforts to protect the homeland have been surprisingly lax and inadequate," the institute said in its report.

"The Bush administration has not brought the same energy and attention to homeland security that it has brought to overseas military efforts," it said. "In short, President Bush has failed to fulfill his promise to make homeland security his top priority."

Six months after the creation of a new department charged with protecting the nation and nearly two years after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, the country is still not well protected, the report said.

PPI gave the government a failing grade on a comprehensive national threat assessment which has been mandated by Congress but has yet to be completed.

Until the assessment is completed, the federal government is forced to operate under the assumption that every facility in every state is equally at risk of being attacked.

"Without this information, the administration and the state and local governments who rely on Washington for threat evaluation have been flying blind," PPI's report said. "Many of the administration's other failures on the homeland security front can be tied to this failure."

PPI gave the administration an average grade on coordinating inter-agency intelligence but gave it an "F" for failing to integrate "terrorist watch lists."

"One of the most egregious problems is a failure to develop an integrated watch list," said PPI vice president Rob Atkinson. "It's emblematic of their problems, because it's so easy to do."

PPI's report said the administration had done well in improving aircraft security and gave the administration an "A" for nuclear power plant security.