Religion a factor?

[PM_Mama00]

It's ok... some of us are used to the term "ignorant" being used against them. (that was to AOcutie's post which has been editted out)

Anyways, I don't know much about witches and Wiccans. The only thing I know about witches is from the movie The Craft, which I'm sure is fiction.

I think having a witch in our chapter would be really cool. I'd love to learn more about it, but not become one. We had a girl come through that was Jewish and honestly, she was the first Jewish girl I had ever met. I asked her questions about her religion all the time because I was curious and she answered the questions well. I think sometimes people are afraid to ask questions, and hence they act like they look down on it.

As long as it is not used in a negative way, then people should respect what a sister does on her own time.

[PiKA2001]

I'm actually very open minded and agnostic myself. So I wasn't shunning you for your non christian beliefs or looking down at you in any way. I was just stating that you could not be a christian witch. Thank you, and sorry for being an asshole about this but it is something I feel very strongly about.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by AchtungBaby80
Maybe I'm confused. When I read Lunarwolf's post, I assumed that her sister was a Christian who practiced witchcraft, which isn't an oxymoron. A person can practice witchcraft and be Christian because witchcraft itself is not a religion.

Not to hijack the thread, but I would disagree. If you are a Christian, you wouldn't "practice" witchcraft, because that would be seen as not of God. That's why I am confused as how someone could reconcile the two.

Typically, most people use pagan and neo-pagan fairly interchangeably to indicate someone who is a follower of any reconstructed ancient religious paths or some combination of them (i.e. an eclectic pagan). Usually pagans are polytheistic, not atheistic.

As for the Christian Witch idea, not everyone interprets the Bible the same way, and there are some people who feel that the Bible explicitly prohibits some forms of witchcraft (divination and any magic using spirits comes to mind), but not all. I don't have enough knowledge of the various translations of the Bible to agree or disagree.

I personally don't know how my chapter would react if I "came out" about this subject myself. I'd suspect that there'd be a lot less confusion on terms with your chapter members than with, say, alums, just because it was "trendy" to be knowledgeable about this sort of stuff and anyone who's read teen magazines has probably heard of Wicca. I'd start out small, by telling the sisters you're closest with and who you can give a really good, detailed explanation of your religious beliefs, and work your way out from there. Let people know that it's not a secret and be approachable and non-defensive about it. If most people know you and know what your beliefs are about, you won't run into as many problems and hopefully anyone who thinks you cast a spell on their shampoo won't have others believing them.

[absolutuscchick]

I'm extremely confused!!!! Not to be offensive to anyone or anything, but when I think of the word "witch," I think of the witches in the Wizard of Oz. However, I have NO CLUE what a "christian witch" or any other type of real-life witch is; I mean is it an actual religious sect? I feel so out of the loop because I have never, ever (except on jenny jones or something) heard of a person saying that they are a witch! I also thought that witchcraft was sort of forbidden in the bible, but mostly, right now, I am WAY confused!!!!

[OrigamiTulip]

You might want to check out http://www.witchvox.com/basics/intro.html as they can give you a pretty comprehensive explanation.

[absolutuscchick]

Originally posted by BetaRose
You might want to check out http://www.witchvox.com/basics/intro.html as they can give you a pretty comprehensive explanation.

Whoa....that's very different than anything I've ever encountered (maybe it's just because I've only been around Jews, Christians, Hindus, Agnostics, and Atheists in my life). I'm also confused about the use of the word pagan. If I heard that word, I would be a little bit weirded out. Why not use the word atheist? Isn't it the the same thing? I have plenty of friends that are that, but the word "pagan" just seems like something that is going to get alot of attention, and I kind of doubt the attention will be positive. But that's just my spin on it, so good luck with whatever you do, but my only advice is that you ought to be prepared for people's reactions

[meridionaleDG]

I'm so confused right now on if I believe in god or not, but I haven't told anyone in my sorority.

I figure I didn't join for religion, and since we don't have weekly bible studies and junk, I just don't even mention it. I guess it is like how many of the gay people feel/say on the real world. Whenever the houseguests find out that a person is gay and ask why they didn't tell - the person will usually say because when I first meet a person I don't ask if they are gay or straight. That might be a bad comparrison - but I just feel like bringing my religion/confussion up isn't something I want to do. Either way, I am still the same person. I am not lying to anyone about my religion, I am just not talking about it. I can talk to my family and such about it when the time approaches.

I think a reason why a lot of people who you are close to might come to shun you if they find out about you not beliving in god or what not is because stereotypical atheist usually have an ego problem. They think everyone is stupid for believing in something (what they think) don't exsist. I think for the most part, though, many people who don't believe in god see the idea of god as something comforting to many people. I know how much it comforts my mom to pray and such, so I am not going to sit here and tell her he doesn't exsist. That isn't my place.

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally posted by Eclipse
Not to hijack the thread, but I would disagree. If you are a Christian, you wouldn't "practice" witchcraft, because that would be seen as not of God. That's why I am confused as how someone could reconcile the two.

As someone pointed out (WillowAnneLyra, maybe?), the Bible can be interpreted in different ways. Some Christians may say that anything having to do with witchcraft is sinful, and others may say it's not an issue. A person can be a witch and still believe in the teachings found in the Bible.

absolutuscchick, some will tell you that witchcraft is a religion (like Wicca) and others will say it's not, that it is independent of religion. I tend to agree with the latter, but if you ask 10 different people I guarantee you will get 10 different answers.

Back to the issue...if my chapter ever had any pagans/atheists/etc., they kept very quiet about it. My chapter had weekly Bible studies that you could sign up for, and many of the members were very passionate about their religious beliefs. I never left my cards out lying around because I was afraid they would draw comment, and I know that if someone had "come out" with different beliefs it probably wouldn't have gone over well with some. I think it's sad that a member of Lunarwolf's chapter left because of it, but I think this could be a good opportunity to educate people so it doesn't happen again.

[WhirlwindTNX]

She may mean "Christian Witch" as a referal to what some people saw Christianity to be in the beginning stages. . .which was filled with Pagan rituals. Either that or she believes in Jesus and practices Wicca, because most Chrisitans believe that acknowledging that Jesus is in your life and that he is the one and only God means you are a Christian. . .Just a thought from a PK. . .

[Lunarwolf]

Okay, I have a lot to clear up, apparently.

Justamom: I have no intention of hiding my ideology. Why should I? Especially with people I'm supposed to call sisters and should be tighter with than anyone? It's not a label, it's a path I chose five years ago. I call myself pagan because I believe in at least one god and one goddess, though I'm still working out for myself whether all gods exist independently or if they're all facets of the same thing. As for hypocrisy about Christmas and such...Yule has pagan roots, which were assimilated by the church later. That, and it's become such a commercialized hullabaloo of gift-giving that my atheist friend celebrates it as, "International Gift-giving Day." Speaking from overseas, that view of it is pretty accurate from this side of the ocean.

Achtung: I have no idea if they knew beforehand that she was a witch.

Kevlar: Having a pledge who could turn water into wine would be useful indeed!

Pika and Eclipse: The anti-witchcraft sentiment in the Bible mainly stems from a mistranslation in the King James version that says, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Hebrew's a tricky language, with context mattering to the meaning of the words. Instead of "witch," a more accurate translation would have been "one who uses herbs (to poison others)." Somewhere along the way 'poisoner' got transliterated into 'sorceror' and then 'witch.'

And to all others: you have excellent suggestions and I appreciate the words of support and open-mindedness I'm seeing here. A religious tolerance workshop would probably be a good idea, though when to squeeze it in is the clincher now.

[33girl]

absolutuscchick,

From the little I have heard of Wicca/witchcraft et al, pagans and atheists are not the same. The terms have been used interchangeably in Christian history (especially when speaking of the Crusades & such) that it can be confusing.

[Kevin]

I really have to agree with JAM on her points.

How were you going to present this to your sisters?

"Hi, I'm ___ and I practice Wicca."

I don't go up to people and announce I'm Catholic. My brothers for the most part wouldn't know I was Catholic, except when we pray in chapter, I do the sign of the cross.

Is it "hiding" it not to tell them? Don't take this the wrong way, but are you just trying to get attention and get a rise out of folks by declaring yourself different from them? What do you expect to gain from this?

Now, I'll conclude again by saying that it's a shame that society doesn't value the Wiccan religion as much as it does Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, etc.. It's a damned shame and it's not fair. That doesn't really mean you should expect it not to. Live alongside your Christian (or otherwise) sisters in peace.

Again, good luck.

[MoxieGrrl]

While it seems that many do not understand Wicca/paganism, many of you are trying to understand. Very cool

Lunarwolf: While I wouldn't suggest just blurting it out, mention your beliefs when everyone else is talking about theirs. Do not do anything religous-wise that makes you uncomfortable.

*Just as a side note, read this thread and substitute "Wiccan/pagan" for "homosexual." Draw your own conclusions.

[Lunarwolf]

I'm not particularly interested in getting a rise out of certain sisters -it would just be a pain.

What concerns me is both the close-mindedness so far exhibited and the fact that I can't say,"I won't be at __________ because of a ritual I'm going to," I can't leave my books out, probably have to hide my frickin' cards, and live the next three years of my life deprived of my own practices. I agree that life isn't fair, but if I don't try to educate just those around me, then it's not going to change for the better. Just because it's not fair now doesn't mean that the future is a total waste.