Should you always take a legacy? - Page 2

KappaKittyCat · #16 07-14-2003, 12:15 PM

I understand legacies' getting a lot more attention, but I don't think it's fair that they're scruntinized more than the other PNMs. In my mind, "every courtesy" means "every chance," not "every opportunity to mess up." I mean, if a legacy turns out to be a nightmare, then drop her, but if she is just acting like every other PNM, then why shouldn't she have the same latitude that other PNMs have? They're not royalty, they're college freshmen.

sueali · #17 07-14-2003, 12:23 PM

At my school there is huge competition (by some chapters) to "steal" another chapters legacy. We give special consideration to legacies but we have also been known to drop legacies when they would be a detriment to our chapter. Luckily our Alumnae base in vegas really isn't old enough to have legacies going through yet (we came on campus in 1987) the majority of our legacies come from out of state, so we never have direct contact with an agry mother or grandmother, yet.

shadokat · #18 07-14-2003, 01:30 PM

I've spoke on this topic previously, and I still really believe that legacies need to be extended a bid without a REALLY valid excuse. I know if I have a daughter one day and she wants to go D Phi E and is cut, I'd be upset. BUT, if she doesn't want it, that's ok by me. Most alumnae feel it is a respect issue to give bids to their daughters, and if the alum is a money donating, active alum, then I think their daughter deserves special consideration. But the overscrutinizing that goes on does really suck!

Little E · #19 07-14-2003, 01:35 PM

We've never had a legacy. (Ok so part of that is AST is TINY) but anyhow, it seems like if any of our alumnae had a daughter go through they'd put tons of pressure on us. I totally understand the connection thing, but there is a point when parents/alumnae need to let both the chapter/daughter make their own choice and respect that choice, not just stop supporting it. Chapter's have personalitites that change. I think legacies are a great idea, and the chapter's that scrutinize them need to relax but so do parents. I don't mean to blame alumnae, it isn't only their fault but the chapter's too. it's like the last few posts pointed out, what is more important, their college experience or their letters?

edit- ok so say you accept every legacy except the slutty, poor grades etc. how do you explain that to an alumna when she thinks you've just rejected her daughter on the grounds of being slutty? and what if that is only a rumor? you've just labeled her to everyother sorority... just a thought...

justamom · #20 07-14-2003, 01:55 PM

sugarandspice-I don't think you should always take a legacy, but I think there should be a good reason not to if you decide this is the case.

I think this would be the most "perfect" way it could be handled.
I wish this were the rule of thumb-and perhaps it really is.
In my heart, I think there should be NO EXCEPTION if an IN HOUSE legacy wants to be there. OK...baring any criminal records, slutty behavior or failure to make the grades required...I'm talking a normal, all around, regular girl.
If her sister is active, she should be invited as well. I would only hope this is the way it is.

Kristin AGD · #21 07-14-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justamom
sugarandspice-I don't think you should always take a legacy, but I think there should be a good reason not to if you decide this is the case.

I think this would be the most "perfect" way it could be handled.
I wish this were the rule of thumb-and perhaps it really is.
In my heart, I think there should be NO EXCEPTION if an IN HOUSE legacy wants to be there. OK...baring any criminal records, slutty behavior or failure to make the grades required...I'm talking a normal, all around, regular girl.
If her sister is active, she should be invited as well. I would only hope this is the way it is.

That wasn't the case for a friend of mine when she went to Ok State. It was so sad, her older sister was devastated, she was very close to dissaffiliating. And my friend was a great PNM. Valedvictorian of our class, into all sorts of activities & sports, a very good looking young woman. But she was voted against. She went to another very good house, but they probably are both not involved now that they are alumna. The organization probably lost out on two sisters active for life, because a few people wanted to vote no to one. Very sad.

33girl · #22 07-14-2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by meridionaleDG
I mean - like in the second situation I gave, the girl didn't like us but she told her mother a completely different story after she was cut from everything. If we would have told her mother sorry, but we don't want to pledge her - it would have come down to it being *our* fault, even though she cut us. The mom is going to side with her daughter.

A few years ago at one of our chapters a double leg (mom & grandma) went through, didn't get a bid and m & g went on the warpath. I am guessing the above was close to what happened -the daughter went through, turned her nose up at us then got cut elsewhere and changed her mind. Either that, or she didn't mention her connection at all because she really wasn't interested, and bsed her relatives to make it look like our fault, not hers.

This is not directed toward anyone, but if your sister or cousin is coming through rush and you want her to pledge your chapter, make sure you yourself are on solid footing with the rest of the sorority. It just so happened that with our in-house legs, they were little sisters of girls that everyone absolutely loved and adored or were around enough before pledging to connect with us on their own. I can think of a few women where if the girl had just shown up and the sister said "this is my sister" it could have gotten hairy.

meridionaleDG · #23 07-15-2003, 12:31 AM

Well just kind of commenting to the post above mine (Hootie), I agree with you. I don't think it should be a definite for legacies to get a bid. I can add another reason/perscpective to that.

I am not a legacy at all. My mom wasn't in a sorority and neither were any of my grandmothers. The closest I will ever come to being a legacy is that both my aunts were Chi-O's at my school, but that just gives me 2 strongs recs - not a legacy position. And even if it did make me a legacy, I wouldn't have gone Chi-O. They are a great chapter (a lot of people consider them the best at my school), but they just aren't me. We had things to talk about and very pleasent conversations, but I could tell my heart was elsewhere. I wouldn't want them to feel any obligation towards me, and I wouldn't want to have to feel any obligation towards them because of my aunts. Then that bond will have just been formed on obligation, and not truthfully in your heart. That is a HUGE reason why I loved DG. DG kept inviting me back even though they were the only sorority I didn't have recs for. We just made that connection - and I knew they liked me for who I was, and not what an alumna wrote on a sheet of paper. I feel like maybe that would be a downside of being a legacy. I sure as heck wouldn't want a sorority to extend me a bid only because of my status.

Now, if every sorority where to extend bids to their legacies first - and then they would sort out the rest, what would happen to girls like me? What if the legacies that go through make up so much of the quota that I am not able to get a bid even though I probably clicked with the girls better. Just because you are a legacy doesn't mean you and the chapter will click. People and attitudes change over the years and so do chapters.

There is no easy explination for the question - but I have to third the person who said "I don't think you should always take a legacy, but I think there should be a good reason not to if you decide this is the case." - but I guess the next question is, how do you tell their mom or grandmother the reason when they call all upset? Honestly, what would the girl say to her mother and grandmother is she didn't like the chapter, and the reason she cut them. You don't want to hurt anyones feelings - no one does.

Sticky!!!!

shadokat · #24 07-15-2003, 10:49 AM

Hootie, I agree with you at schools that have large recruitments with many legacies, you can't take them all. I was basing my view on what the AVERAGE school has. I don't think situations like UGA, UT-Austin, LSU are necessarily the norm. I mean Penn State has a HUGE greek system, and while it's somewhat competitive, it's far from the cut-throat system at Ole Miss or something.

In situations that allow it, I hope that legacies are given every opportunity is what I ask. Bid Guarantees aren't necessary, but a damn good reason for schools that aren't ridiculously full of legacies, I think that's reasonable.

KappaKittyCat · #25 07-15-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sugarandspice
I don't think you should always take a legacy, but I think there should be a good reason not to if you decide this is the case.

I second that emotion.

Quote:

Originally posted by meridionaleDG
The next question is, how do you tell their mom or grandmother the reason when they call all upset?

I don't know how other sororities work this, but in Kappa, we give no information to the legacy relation. If they call all pissy, we just have to say, "I'm sorry, but we do not discuss membership selection outside of the chapter." The only people who know what's going on are the chapter actives and the membership advisor(s). The rule is widely published and the same all throughout Kappa, so alumnae know not to put actives in that uncomfortable situation. We do not inform legacies' relations if the legacy is released; that information belongs to the legacy alone.

rocketaxid · #26 07-15-2003, 03:27 PM

According to my understandings of how my school and chapter works. In order to be classified as a legacy you must disclose this information prior to the begining of formal recruitment. This is to prevent girls from not telling and then blaming the chapters for not taking into consideration that they are a legacy. We do have chapters that try and steal other chapters legacies every year. Our formal recruitment has been small in the past, last year quota was nine. Most chapters will have a legacy or two each year, my chapters only been there for five years we ususally have less legacies than other chapters.

Within my chapter, and this is all based on my understandings please correct me if I'm wrong, we pretty much have to bid legacies. If we make the decision to cut a legacy, especailly one with rec's we have to call the person who they are a legacy of and tell them why. I know what your all thinking right now OUCH! Yeah, I can only imagine how much it would have to suck to be the person making the phone call. I don't think the chapters ever had to do that, we've only been at UT since 97.
~Shady

SigKapQueen · #27 07-15-2003, 07:13 PM

in the recent SIGMA KAPPA TRIANGLE there was an article about legacies. Nationally sigma kappa takes legacies to the upmost importance. there were several features on how daughters, sisters, grand daughters, and nieces became sigma kappas and how their relationship grew just because of sigma kappa. if you would like to read this articke go to http://www.sigmakappa.org/currents/c..._triangle.html and press feature article.
in my opinion the legacy already has a positive idea of the sorority, because of her family. she already knows how much she can get from a sisterhood. if they are well minded and not crazy, then sure give them a bid, if not then she "will end up where she is meant to be"

GPhiSweetiePie · #28 07-18-2003, 03:27 PM

I wish I knew how all this stuff really worked. My sister attended the same college that I go to now (she's 9 years older than me, so not on campus at the same time as me, obviously), and I was a legacy through her. I adored this house when I went through recruitment, and not because I was a legacy, but because the girls were wonderful. Imagine my dismay when I had been going to their parties all week during recruitment, and I got my list of houses to go to on pref day and they weren't on it. I'm happy where I am, but it still bugs me a little because to this day I have no idea why I was cut. I wasn't expecting to get in automatically because I was a legacy, but I thought that should give me a little extra consideration, plus I loved the house and thought everyone there liked me too. <Sigh>

OUlioness01 · #29 07-18-2003, 03:34 PM

we had a legacy go through last year and i don't know if she dropped or went somewhere else, but she didn't appear at our house on bid day. i was actully really relieved about that becuase i felt more unconfortable around that girl than around anyother person i had ever met. she wouldn't have fit into our sisterhood at all. i really hope she found her home or realized that greek life wasn't for her after all (it really isn't for some people...i'm not saying that to be mean or anything)

Kristin AGD · #30 07-18-2003, 04:02 PM

I think our legacy rules are pretty standard:

•The Fraternity expects all collegiate chapters to give serious
consideration to each legacy out of courtesy to the ÁÃ∆ member
to whom she is related.
•A legacy must be invited to at least one invitational round of the
chapter’s recruitment functions.
•If a chapter releases a legacy, an advisor for the chapter must
contact the ÁÃ∆ relative of the legacy to inform her of the legacy’s
release from membership consideration. All efforts must be taken
to contact the relative prior to the distribution of invitations to the
next round of recruitment events.
•If a chapter invites a legacy to Preference (final function), the
legacy must be placed on the chapter’s first bid list.

I don't know if the advisor has to give a reason. But I agree with everyone that it should be a really, really good reason if you are going to release a legacy. They might not be a perfect fit, or the normal type of girl that is invited to the group, but this can give the chapter some diversity. If it is truly a wrong fit hopefully the pnm will figure that out on their own without the group having to be the bad guys and hurt the alums, thus hurting the organization. Most schools don't have more legacy than bids, so I think except in those special cases, legacies should be invited back.