Delta Omega Chi of MTV fame loses recognition

[AYE FEE]

Originally posted by FuzzieAlum
Between this and the dorks who got a fish stuck in their head at Anchor Splash, I think the moral here is that fraternities are better off staying away from fish altogether.

Not saying too much for University of California Greeks either (hey I can say that, I'm a UCSB alum)

[AYE FEE]

June 14, 2003

UCSC boots frat after pet-koi barbecue
DAN WHITE
Sentinel staff writer
SANTA CRUZ — UC Santa Cruz’s administration has banished the fraternity that drew outrage and national headlines when two members stole, killed and allegedly cooked a pet koi.

The decision announced Friday came just days after MTV wrapped up filming a "reality" TV show featuring Delta Omega Chi members at a rented Lake Avenue house.

While the 30-member frat likely will become famous in September when MTV airs the show, the organization is now kaput at UCSC.

The decision to sever university ties with the frat does not mean DOC is dead. However, members said the expulsion puts a damper on the organization’s ability to attract students on campus and organize "rush" functions.

Campus spokesman Jim Burns said UCSC will no longer allow the group to use meeting spaces, post fliers or pass out leaflets on campus. The decision, he said, is permanent.

Burns said privacy rules prevent him from disclosing why the fraternity as a whole is being punished instead of just the two students.

"It was our determination that members of the fraternity were involved in concert with one another," is all he would say.

"That’s all I can really tell you."

He said a campus judiciary board investigation is ongoing. "We’re certainly looking to see if others were involved."

The reaction is the latest fallout after DOC members Casey Loop and Matthew Cox, both seniors, admittedly filched the 2-foot, 20-pound fish, reported to be worth more than $800, on May 20.

The fish, by several accounts, was killed and cooked.

Known by the names Midas, Goldie and Big Red, the koi was a 1995 gift to the campus from UCSC professor David Swanger.

Loop and Cox, who reportedly used rakes to scoop the fish from the pond, face misdemeanor charges filed last week by the District Attorney’s Office, for grand theft and malicious mischief.

It was Loop, according to MTV and the UCSC administration, who convinced the network to come to Santa Cruz and film the frat in the first place.

Frat members and UCSC alumni reacted angrily to the news Friday.

"We plan to fight this," said DOC member Joe Sanchis. "We are meeting with our lawyers. We have every right to be on this campus." Without campus privileges, he said, "we’d become an underground renegade fraternity like in that movie, ‘P.C.U.’ ’’

He contradicted an administrative statement that the frat had accepted the sanction.

"I don’t know where that came from," Sanchis said. "There has been no decision by the fraternity to agree to that."

He called the decision "political. They are discriminating against us. (Killing the fish) was not an organizational event. It was not a pledge event. We do not condone cruelty to animals."

Daniel Goldstein, a 1994 UCSC graduate and DOC member, insisted the fraternity would "go on the way we’ve always done. ... People will see our Web site. They will see us on TV. They can get in touch with us."

But students hanging out near the Porter College koi pond said they fully support the administration’s decision.

"I eat fish, but I don’t eat people’s goldfish, and I don’t eat people’s dogs," said student Susan St. John, 19.

Michael Madolny, 21, said the entire organization deserved punishment for a cruel "publicity stunt. What they did to that fish was completely disrespectful."

Doug Zuidema, director of the Student Judicial Affairs Office, has said the administration has not made a decision about the two students, who face potential suspension or expulsion.

Attempts at damage control, such as the placement of a large orange koi that reportedly cost $650 into the Porter pond, hasn’t done much to counter that resentment on campus. At the pond, someone has posted a message saying, "Pets aint for eating, you (expletives). ... Hannibal Lecter should fry up some frat boy for dinner."

The fraternity, which only exists locally, has never had a permanent house in Santa Cruz. Instead, over the years, "actives" have gotten together to rent homes in the area.

While many students on campus say MTV should be held accountable for the animal cruelty, an MTV spokeswoman insisted the show had no plans to use the fish situation as part of its storyline, an MTV spokeswoman said last week.

UCSC had blocked MTV from filming frat activities on campus this year.

[meridionaleDG]

Well, some might so oh well since they are underground now - they can still proceed with their greek life. That might be true, but as a potential new member, would you want to join that fraternity? I sure wouldn't.

[ucsc girlie]

I actually go to UCSC and used to party quite a lot with DOC. The majority of them are really nice guys, I would even say that Casey and Matt are good guys. What they did was stupid, but there is a story behind it that few people know. Two weeks before the fish incident happened, "The Fish Rap" newspaper drew and published a cartoon about DOC being filmed by MTV. One of the scenes of the cartoon showed them at Porter BBQing a fish. Hell I mean, they were already given crap about doing something they didnt do, so the two of them went out to do it. The fish incident isnt the only thing that got DOC in trouble. During a spring preview weekend, the guys were yelling "How much for your wife and daughter" and their shirts say "Freshman girls~get em while they're skinny" Both of these landed the guys in sexual harrassment charges which just started their punishment through the school. The guys are really good guys though, Paul for example does so much with the Special Olympics in Santa Cruz and is a writing tutor for freshmen. Chris, Russell, Nate, Chris, and a bunch of others are just having fun and shouldnt be totally punished for Casey and Matts stupid act.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by AYE FEE

"We plan to fight this," said DOC member Joe Sanchis. "We are meeting with our lawyers. We have every right to be on this campus." Without campus privileges, he said, "we’d become an underground renegade fraternity like in that movie, ‘P.C.U.’ ’’

...

"I don’t know where that came from," Sanchis said. "There has been no decision by the fraternity to agree to that."

He called the decision "political. They are discriminating against us. (Killing the fish) was not an organizational event. It was not a pledge event. We do not condone cruelty to animals."

My thoughts on the article...

1. Sounds like they already act like an "underground renegade fraternity"

2. Sanchis said the fraternity didn't agree to the university ruling? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but do the GLO's in question actually get to "agree" to it? I always thought if you did something bad enough to get kicked off campus, it was a campus decision, not the GLO.

3. Ok.. it wasn't an organizational event.. it wasn't a pledge event, and they do not condone cruelty to animals. Fair enough. But if they want to be a greek-lettered-organization that is recognized by the school, they should have to play by the same risk-management rules everyone else has to play by.

Bottom line is, it doesn't have to be an "organizational or pledge event".. GLO's can still get in trouble for things that happen on or off property... whether it's an organized event or not.

Originally posted by ucsc girlie
During a spring preview weekend, the guys were yelling "How much for your wife and daughter" and their shirts say "Freshman girls~get em while they're skinny" Both of these landed the guys in sexual harrassment charges which just started their punishment through the school.

The guys wore those shirts and made those comments during spring preview (like you mentioned and like mentioned by another GC'er), so if the sexual harrassment charges already started their punishment by the school, then they deserved it because they did that as a group.

It was bad enough they were actively petitioning for MTV to film them when the school obviously did not want the cameras there... and they made it worse for themselves by their actions.

I just feel they brought on their own fate. It all could have been avoided if they hadn't acted so immature.

[James]

Well, there are over 5000 active chapters across the nation . .. we are not doing bad percentage wise.

Originally posted by exlurker
. . . not to mention geese, pigs, and puppies. In the past year we've seen GC posts about suspensions, discipline, charters jeopardized because of mistreatment or killing involving those, too. Unfortunately.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

I agree that they acted immaturely. This all says a LOT for having a Nationals as a group -- how many of you guys have gone to do something, write something on a shirt, whatever -- until someone said, "If Nationals heard about this..." and that was the end of it?



heh heh. who else thought the Hannibal comment was funny?

[Cloud9]

This all says a LOT for having a Nationals as a group -- how many of you guys have gone to do something, write something on a shirt, whatever -- until someone said, "If Nationals heard about this..." and that was the end of it?

And yet there are many renegade national chapters in existence. And there are many local chapters that are very strict, in some cases more so than their national neighbors, in their risk management policies. One could say that a great thing about locals is that when they do things well(and they often do), it is entirely though their own merit and discretion - it's not just because "big brother" is watching.

Please don't make locals vs national comments, however vague or polite, based on one incident. I haven't ever seen local members on GC cheer or wag fingers when a national chapter is shut down.

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

My point was, actually, that GLOs with National offices find themselves held to a standard they can't compromise. If they do, there are consequences.

A local doesn't have these same restrictions on them. If they thrive, it's because of their own ingenuity and their own abilities as a group promoting brother/sisterhood. But when a group so dramatically misbehaves like this -- I can only say, this would never happen in my chapter. And I know this because (aside from the fact that cooking & eating a pet fish was ridiculous in the first place) what our Nationals thinks of us & our activities is in the forefront of every sister's mind at all times.

Hence what we tell every new member... "You're sharing these letters with 140,000 other women. Respect them."

As for your "big brother" comment -- I, for one, welcome the existance and oversight of Phi Mu Nationals. I think they do a great job of holding us to our own standards of love, honor, and truth -- which we need sometimes, as 20 years of life doesn't always afford the wisdom we need.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by texas*princess
My thoughts on the article...

1. Sounds like they already act like an "underground renegade fraternity"

This is how I felt too. I don't think that the university made a mistake in suspending these kids because it seems like they've already been breaking tons of rules (in short, they've already been acting the way an underground chapter would). You can say that the school is wrong to suspend them because now, as an underground chapter, they won't have ANY rules to follow, but in reality they weren't following the rules given to them in the first place.

Also, it seems that at a school like UCSC, a fraternity like this is going to have some trouble attracting numbers, especially while underground (which means they can't advertise on campus, can't be listed in the student organization listings). There aren't many UCSC students who want to go Greek, and those who do will join a legitimate fraternity. I think DOC ll die out within a year or two, if not sooner.

[Cloud9]

You just repeated the virtually the same sentiment again, I didn't really need to put words anywhere. My point was that your statement, "they can't compromise" is simply not true. There are plenty who do compromise and are not found out, except by, perhaps, those who promote stereotypes. And locals are often held to standards of their school. state, and panhellenic board(if it exists on campus). At any rate, it should not be my point either to bring out the equally bad actions that can occur in national groups, the point is that yes, policies can differ but really there are bad chapters on both sides of the spectrum, probably in equal proportion. Some people are just idiots, and there's really nothing that will stop them from doing stupid things. If they were a national chapter, they would be shut down or sanctioned by their headquarters. As a local, they HAVE been shut down by the school. So really I'm not sure what the point of your statement is, other than to make the issue a local GLO problem. I'm glad that your chapter lives up to the ideals and regulations of your org. And I know that many, many nationals do too. Just remember, there are also many, many locals who do as well.

[texas*princess]

Cloud9, I don't understand how you feel sugar&spice just "repeated the same sentiment"???

In summation, all she said was that she felt the fraternity got what they deserved since they don't know how to act, that losing the university recognition could help them [do whatever they want like they seem to like] more than hurt them, and that at a school like the one they are at, it will be very hard to attract new members if they are underground.

Any chapter, whether local, national, international, whatever, should be punished for acting the way the DOC guys did. It's wrong, immature, and doesn't hold up to any of the ideals on which most GLO's are formed upon.

The UCSC campus is already VERY anti-greek from what I've read, and on a campus like that, you can't expect to attract members or even "fans" if you act the way DOC did. Greeks on that campus have it hard enough as it is, and I would guess they have to work extra-hard to get new members compared to most other campuses that have 1000's of men and women already wanting to be part of Greek life... and I'm sure groups like DOC don't help that either.

And by saying "groups like DOC," I don't mean "locals" like many people automatically assume. By that I mean groups that act like DOC who will do anything and everything to get attention whether it is good or not... and in this case, it's not good.

[ucsc girlie]

screw all the national, local, or whatever people. this is how the story goes...........2 guys fucked up. end of story. DOC dealt with harrassment charges and had to send public apologies to the school. they did that. that should no longer be held against them. they have also made public that the fraternity as a whole was not in this prank. it was two guys. if casey and matt are on any other clubs (which i know they are), then those other clubs should be held accountable just as DOC is. the only reason DOC is being held accountable is because of the initial cartoon and the lack of support. I think people need to stop making these guys out to be some big bad bully people and understand that they are just having fun. isnt that what this whole greek thing is supposed to be about~~~having fun while making new friends?!?! let it go and just get on with the greek life at your school. since DOC wasnt national or part of any other greek chapter, it wont change any one else's sorority or fraternity so let DOC and its brothers deal with their own dilema. Thanks!

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by ucsc girlie
screw all the national, local, or whatever people. this is how the story goes...........2 guys fucked up. end of story. DOC dealt with harrassment charges and had to send public apologies to the school. they did that. that should no longer be held against them. they have also made public that the fraternity as a whole was not in this prank. it was two guys. if casey and matt are on any other clubs (which i know they are), then those other clubs should be held accountable just as DOC is. the only reason DOC is being held accountable is because of the initial cartoon and the lack of support. I think people need to stop making these guys out to be some big bad bully people and understand that they are just having fun. isnt that what this whole greek thing is supposed to be about~~~having fun while making new friends?!?! let it go and just get on with the greek life at your school. since DOC wasnt national or part of any other greek chapter, it wont change any one else's sorority or fraternity so let DOC and its brothers deal with their own dilema. Thanks!

Being Greek IS about having fun . . . but not at somebody else's expense. You don't just cook and eat somebody's pet, or a school's mascot, and claim it's all in good fun and you're not hurting anybody. Not only is that illegal but it's tacky as hell. Furthermore, if these boys were already on some sort of probation (for the "sexual harassment" stuff) then they should have known better than to pull something like this. If you've already gotten in trouble with the school, everybody else is going to be watching you extra-carefully to make sure you don't get into more trouble. Unfortunate as it may be, we as Greeks are held to higher standards than the rest of the school population, and if a couple members of our group do something stupid, the whole group is punished. That may not be fair, but it's what always happens and we have to put up with it anyway. Furthermore, just because the group is a local fraternity doesn't mean it doesn't affect anybody else. We've already had UCSC Greeks come on here and say they've been feeling the anti-Greek backlash because of this incident. And as for the rest of us on other campuses, it's just one more incident that adds to the anti-Greek sentiment. Negative Greek press affects all of us.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by ucsc girlie
screw all the national, local, or whatever people. this is how the story goes...........2 guys fucked up. end of story. DOC dealt with harrassment charges and had to send public apologies to the school. they did that. that should no longer be held against them. they have also made public that the fraternity as a whole was not in this prank. it was two guys. if casey and matt are on any other clubs (which i know they are), then those other clubs should be held accountable just as DOC is. the only reason DOC is being held accountable is because of the initial cartoon and the lack of support.

In the initial season of Fraternity Life, some of the Sigma Chi Omega pledges thought it would be fun to go to the public zoo and try to steal an animal. While they didn't succeed in stealing an animal, they did succeed in getting bad publicity for their fraternity... even though it was not a fraternity event, the fraternity name "sigma chi omega" was on pretty much every article about that incident. It wasn't "three males... " it will almost always be "three fraternity brothers of ABC.."

Whether or not they are members of the local Chess or Glee club doesn't matter. People like to pick on fraternities and sororities because of little pranks like this that were never 'OK-ed' by the actual organization, but instead just done by a couple of members for "fun".

In many risk-management incidents, it doesn't have to be an "official event" for potential consequences. It could be that just a few fraternity brothers or sorority sisters are hanging out and something bad happens, but the first thing you hear is that they were part of ABC fraternity or XYZ sorority even if it wasn't an "official" event.

Usually when you join a fraternity or sorority, there is some kind of understanding that you are now a representative of the said group. There have been lots of debates as to when you start representing your group and when you "aren't" but the bottom line is, if you do something pretty bad enough to make front page headlines, and it is pretty known that you are a member of a certain GLO, you should probably think twice about doing whatever it is...ESPECIALLY if the group had already been in trouble recently for something else.