How do you feel about this controversial topic?

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by Arya
There are a few national organizations that have specifically outlawed discrimination according to sexual orientations.

Count Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia as one such GLO. Our constitution prohibits discrimination on the basis of "race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, disability or religion."

[33girl]

Originally posted by zchi2
I think that some of you all are making the assumption that before people come to college or join an organization, they know that they are gay. Most people come to grips with their sexuality during college. There are a lot gay people who are in deep deep denial and they try to join greek organizations because they are trying to give an appearance of a "typical" straight person. I know a lot of gay people that joined a greek organization before they came out to others and to themselves and used to be some of the most homophobic people you would ever meet...

I agree. But the point I was trying to make was that just because this or that group is 10% of the general population, it is not 10% of every subset of that population.

[KillarneyRose]

If I like a person, I will continue to like him/her whether he/she is gay or straight. Conversely, if I can't stand the person his/her sexual orientation wouldn't change that either. Cool people are cool people, a$$holes are a$$holes.

I believe this is the only issue out there that I take a more liberal stance on. Shhh! Don't tell anyone...

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Not to mention the fact that many gays and lesbians don't join Greek organizations because of the "homophobic" label that's been attached to them, and they assume they won't feel comfortable there. So to assume that every organization should be ten percent gay is an oversimplification.

33 & S&S,

That's why it says potentially.

By the way, when did it become a "fact" that many gays and lesbians don't join Greek organizations? I think that's an assumption that might not hold up. (see zchi2 post above)

I found out many years after graduation that our pledge master and later chapter president was gay.

Just because many gay people in our society aren't "out" it doesn't mean they aren't there.

33, I think there's a difference in your thoughts and mine. Being Morman or Asian isn't the sort of "secret" thing that being gay has been in the past -- and to some extent continues to be. In fact, I wonder if it wouldn't prove correct that if, let's say 10% of people on a given campus are Asian, that about 10% of the Greek population would also be Asian? And that would probably be easier to prove.

I think (but can't prove it) that the percentage figures for gays would stand up to scrutiny on any campus, because that population is not as sectionalized (in terms of where they live) as Mormans or Asians who probably still tend to live together in identifiable areas (Utah, for instance).

[Opie25]

DeltAlum:

I can speak for the campus from which I am currently an advisor, and our cultural/ethinc breakdown actually mirrors that of the university at large...in fact we actually have a little bit more of visible minority groups in our fraternity and sorority community.

I would tend to believe (just from my own experience) that you would be correct deltalum and that the breakdown would be very similar (if not the same as) the campus averages for different groups...but there are always exceptions....and not every campus tracks that kind of information on its members.

Of course, we do not track based upon religion, beliefs, sexual identification, etc.

I can tell you that there are actually several fraternity and sorority members who are "out" on this campus, and most have never had any serious issues or problems with their chapters or others in the greek community (to my knowledge).

[sugar and spice]

From the articles I've read, the percentage of gay men in fraternities is lower than 10%, and the number of lesbian women in sororities is far lower than the number of gay men in fraternities. (This of course only applies to those who are "out," since we can't do studies on those who aren't . . . ) Nobody's sure why the number of gay women is lower than that of the men, but I have a feeling it might have something to do with IFC vs. NPC rush systems -- fraternity men are more likely to know a guy or be friends with him before he goes through rush (or he may not "rush" in a conventional sense at all) whereas, with NPC formal rush, you may not know much, or anything, about a woman before rush and would be more likely to judge on initial impressions. If the only thing you know about a woman before rush is that she's a lesbian, you're less likely to give her a bid than if you know she's a lesbian, the sweetest girl in the universe, an awesome soccer player, a loyal friend and a great singer.

I'm not trying to speak for every gay person -- I know there are many who don't come out until halfway through college, or after it. But I also think it's obvious that the ten percent figure doesn't apply to every situation in life. It's likely that if you walk into a guys' ballet class, you will find more "out" gay men than if you were looking for them on a football field. Reason #1 for that: gay men feel more comfortable coming out in a situation where it's more acceptable to be gay, and where there's a precedent of those who come out being accepted. Reason #2: many people are drawn to situations where they will feel more comfortable, and repelled by those where they would feel uncomfortable. If you're a gay men, you may LOVE playing football but quit the team because some of your teammates make homophobic comments that disturb you. Or you may love football but never join the team in the first place because you're afraid that they won't accept you. Unfortunately, GLOs fall into the category of "situations where many gay people are afraid they won't be accepted." There isn't much of a precedent of people coming out at all, let alone being accepted by their brothers and sisters after they do. (Fortunately this is changing.)

I am by no means trying to say that this applies to all gay people (and I'm sure there are some gay football players out there), I just think it's ridiculous to say that just because gay people make up ten percent of the population, they will make up ten percent of ANY population.

[FuzzieAlum]

I can speak for the campus from which I am currently an advisor, and our cultural/ethinc breakdown actually mirrors that of the university at large...in fact we actually have a little bit more of visible minority groups in our fraternity and sorority community.

On our campus, the percentages of minorities did not reflect the campus population. The percentage of Asians in GLOs, for example, was less than that of the school. Why? We had a large international student population, which was not involved in Greek life at all. The numbers of Asian Americans, however, was similar for both Greek life and the student body.

I do think, for sororities at least, it is rarer for an out lesbian to join than it is for a member to come out later. That's not to say it doesn't happen.

But as to the original question: If tolerance is important to you, I would think you're more likely to pick one of the more tolerant groups on your campus, and I would look for subtle clues during rush. (I can't really advise asking point-blank, "So how do you feel about gay rights?" or something - as the sororities are advised not to talk about politics, religion or controversial subjects during rush.) Because chapters do differ, as some of the examples other people have mentioned above show.

[Jill1228]

I would be cool with it! We are supposed to accept our brothers and sisters as they are, regardless of race, color, religion, creed AND sexual orientation! From talking to my gay and lesbian friends, coming out is hella difficult. I would stand by them no matter one.

They mess with my brother or sister, they mess with me!

[LXAAlum]

My view, as also posted in another thread somewhere in the forums:

I don't have any gay brothers. For that matter, I don't have any black brothers, asian brothers, or any "x" brothers for a label.

I only have brothers in the bonds of Lambda Chi Alpha. Period.

There is nothing now (times were different until the 1960's) in our ritual that specifies what "label" a brother can or cannot have.

[Opie25]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
From the articles I've read, the percentage of gay men in fraternities is lower than 10%, and the number of lesbian women in sororities is far lower than the number of gay men in fraternities. (This of course only applies to those who are "out," since we can't do studies on those who aren't . . . ) Nobody's sure why the number of gay women is lower than that of the men, but I have a feeling it might have something to do with IFC vs. NPC rush systems -- fraternity men are more likely to know a guy or be friends with him before he goes through rush (or he may not "rush" in a conventional sense at all) whereas, with NPC formal rush, you may not know much, or anything, about a woman before rush and would be more likely to judge on initial impressions. If the only thing you know about a woman before rush is that she's a lesbian, you're less likely to give her a bid than if you know she's a lesbian, the sweetest girl in the universe, an awesome soccer player, a loyal friend and a great singer.

I'm not trying to speak for every gay person -- I know there are many who don't come out until halfway through college, or after it. But I also think it's obvious that the ten percent figure doesn't apply to every situation in life. It's likely that if you walk into a guys' ballet class, you will find more "out" gay men than if you were looking for them on a football field. Reason #1 for that: gay men feel more comfortable coming out in a situation where it's more acceptable to be gay, and where there's a precedent of those who come out being accepted. Reason #2: many people are drawn to situations where they will feel more comfortable, and repelled by those where they would feel uncomfortable. If you're a gay men, you may LOVE playing football but quit the team because some of your teammates make homophobic comments that disturb you. Or you may love football but never join the team in the first place because you're afraid that they won't accept you. Unfortunately, GLOs fall into the category of "situations where many gay people are afraid they won't be accepted." There isn't much of a precedent of people coming out at all, let alone being accepted by their brothers and sisters after they do. (Fortunately this is changing.)

I am by no means trying to say that this applies to all gay people (and I'm sure there are some gay football players out there), I just think it's ridiculous to say that just because gay people make up ten percent of the population, they will make up ten percent of ANY population.

I think that another reasons for the smaller number of lesbian women in sororities could be due to the fact that most studies that I have seen the median age for "coming out" or acceptance of homosexual identity is at a older age for women, thus after the college (and greek) experience.....just a thought.

[fingerbang]

we have an openly gay brother, and it has never been a problem at all. hes a really cool guy, he lives with 5 really hot alpha phi's and is always trying to hook us up with them. i wouldnt be worried about it. i mean when i first found out as a pledge (he is 1 year older) i thought people in this house had a prob with it, but no one does and no one holds it against us. be proud of who you are and other people will be 2

[Tom Earp]

For those that may not know, JonoBN41 is a Gay LXA! I am not telling any secrets as he told it on LXA Thread. I knew it before then.

I met Jono 1 1/2 years ago bidding on ebay site and mailed him!

Since then, we have become vast Friends and Brothers, I went down to Melbourne ( FIT ) for His Founders Day and He came to mine (Pittsburg , Ks).

We dont talk every night, but at least 4-5 days a week!

He is Gay, But one of the Best Friends I have!!!

If I had a Gay member in the Chapter, I would treat him like the Asian, Black, and White Brothers as a Brother of LXA!

[zchi2]

If you're a gay men, you may LOVE playing football but quit the team because some of your teammates make homophobic comments that disturb you. Or you may love football but never join the team in the first place because you're afraid that they won't accept you.

This might be true in some cases, but a lot of times the person that feels the need to talk about gay people all the time is gay. Just like a lot of people who always talk about how beautiful and sexy they are usually are the people with the lowest self-esteem. Also if homophobic comments ran away all gay people, then there wouldn't be any gay people in churches. I have gone to some of the most conservative churches and seen more gay men singing in the choir than at the local gay club...

I think that another reasons for the smaller number of lesbian women in sororities could be due to the fact that most studies that I have seen the median age for "coming out" or acceptance of homosexual identity is at a older age for women, thus after the college (and greek) experience.....just a thought.

Also I think that there might be a lower number of lesbians in sororities is because women are more likely than men to still say they are straight even if they had many sexual relationships with women. They say it was just an emotional connection

[AZpinkkittie]

Thanks so much for posting all your thoughts!!!!! I really appreciate your honesty, and now that I know, your tolerance I'm not the type of person to judge a group by one member, so would probably listen to a lot of you and just go by my feelings on the group as a whole. But since I don't know anyone in a sorority, I didn't know what the overall feeling was. I'm happy to see it's a good one. I will check out that site and I will have my friends check it out too. It's nice to know that the whole brotherhood/sisterhood thing doesn't come with a disclaimer "Only if you're straight." Thanks again for easing my mind

[madmax]

I am against it.

If you are in favor of having members with a different sexual orientation are you also in favor of having members of the opposite sex?