Psychological Hazing

[emb021]

Originally posted by Nhfulmer
For those of you whose GLO's are part of FIPG, scavenger hunts are prohibited - I would assume for safety sake and, therefore, liability.

As I said before, most GLOs are pretty clear what is considered hazing and is prohibited. APO specificaly prohibits scavenger hunts, road trips, kidnapping, paddling, branding, forced activities, physical conditioning, personal services, limits on eating, sleeping, etc. This is all set down in our Membership & Risk Management policies available on our National website.

While I've not taken the time to study them, from similiar threads on this general topic, many GLOs and the various National GLO bodies all have very similiar policies. I recall someone from a social GLO posted their policy and it was pretty close to APO's.

The problem I've seen have been:
1) members/chapters who haven't gotten the message that such practices are now not allowed and still do them.
2) members (usually old guard alum) who disagree that particular practices should be banded and try to perpetuate them.

Educating the membership will help in hopefully eliminating these problems.

[trisigmaAtl]

I went to informal chapter as a pledge (without ritual) and had nm class meetings as well. I come from a chapter 0f about 40 and it wasn't shocking or disorienting at all, it was nice to already be accepted into the sisterhood. we had a meeting before chapter to discuss what went on, and it was good to learn by observation so that when my time came as an active I knew how things worked within our chapter, not just on paper. I also think it's fine to keep the newmembers seperate, and I think other just for new member activities are very important. I did a scavenger hunt, but some sisters came with each group...it was fun and harmless. Just wanted to mention that going to chapter as a pledge isn't so bad.

[Buttonz]

I know that we are strict about hazing...no scanvenger hunts, no kidnappings nothing. However ,we do have to plan a sisterhood event and get active gets a little favor from it3....it's up the the pledges how much they spend! Havign a small chapter (currently we have 10 actives, while I pledged it was 12) means that it dosent get to expensive...my pledge sis and myself spent about $50 each on our sisterhood event and it rocked! We are not allowed to attened sisters meetings while pledging and we have our own meetings once a week to help us learn the history!

[AlethiaSi]

hi- well basically I pledged a different sorority before joining nu sig- they shall remain nameless- and I have many friends in that sorority- but the hazing was too intense- i personally don't ever want anyone to go through that- it was military boot camp practically- the flip side is that it brought everyone together- and iknow that my friends woldn't trade it for the world- i wish i could have finished- but after three weeks and severe panic attacks 3 times a day- i was finsihed.... I took some time off and then pledged nu sig- i lvoed it and became very close with my sisters... after my experience- even though it was awful at the time- i think it is imperative to bring sisters together- i've been on both sides and I know that it is difficult for someone who has not been through it- to speak on it.... I think that pledging is necessary- they are not active sisters yet- they need to know their information- to know the sisters- they do not need to be intimidated or humiliated in any way, shape or form. Kidnapping activites are fun- we had our pledges go to another schools campus and find all kinds of crazy things- they loved it- my pledge class did too- they know our history- songs and yea they had to do stuff- but we all look back on it fondly- honestly- i find it hard to beleive that there can be true sisterhood and closeness if they meet with their sorority once a week or on special events- each person's experience is different and thats waht makes us all different-

[AXPGoBot]

Just putting my two cents in but...

I really feel like the first two on the list (scavenger hunts and kidnappings) can be some of the most events during pledging.

Personally, I look forward to those sort of things...

The key here, however (and this was touched upon earlier) is not to let it get out of hand. Our Chapter has made mistakes before w/ events like that, and we've learned from them. For instance, if car accidents are a problem or a danger during kidnappings (and let's face it... the car chase is sorta inevitable ), then simply not allow the use of cars during the games. For scavenger hunts, don't put things on the list which are just a bad idea, i.e. stop signs, girls' bras, and other things that could just really get you into trouble. Honestly, if you can plan these events responsibly, it makes all the difference between a "risky" event and a safe and fun one.

Oh, and having the class plan it's own service project or fundraiser is a good idea too. I like to think of all my pledge classes like a mini-fraternity. They are learning about Brotherhood and working together and orgainzing things, and at the same time, they are assimilating into the larger fraternity: our Chapter. By having them plan and organize things of that nature, they began to understand and are better prepared to deal w/ all the problems that can arise in the ACTUAL fraternity. Pledging is a lot like a "practice run" in that sense.

But hey, that's just my opinion... anyone else out there feel the same?

[Tom Earp]

Bryan, I agree to a degree!

Risk Management has changed many things! We cannot have Assoc. Paddles that arre BIG with the Assoc. Class on them Shows a Form Of Hazing), Cannot force them to study, they can have their own meetings but why? They meet with the Active Chapter!

They can be voted in as Officers as Assoc. whether they really know what is going on! Depending on the size of Chapter of Course.

Force of any kind physical or physciological is Hazing! This is in many eyes because of all of the things that I see daily with Chapters being kicked off campus or Charters taken!

It is sad when I see a LXA Chapter losing their Charter for stupidity, especially, since all of the People That I know do not condone this and neither will the Fraternity Intrnationsl!

[PSK480]

Originally posted by adpiucf

- Forced Silence

I agree to an extent that this act could be hazing. But, when done in other ways it is not. There is a period of time, supposed to be no less than 24 hours, that a Candidate must be silent reflect on his life and have no contact with the outside world with the exception of class and work interaction. They can only speak in class when spoken to. It's actually something that our national has us do. They can't speak to you, acknowledge you or anything. I'm sure you've seen this 33girl. During this time they are encouraged to reflect on their lives and studies. Reading is highly recommended, especially your school books and bible if you so choose to believe, you are kinda just supposed to go to class or work, meditate, and reflect. When administered properly this is not hazing.

[Little E]

Ok so 75% of the chapters in the world will behave and not ask for crude and demeaning items on their scavenger hunt lists. But not all chapters can handle that responsibility. A few have ruined it for the rest. Our insurance wont cover it, our pres is liable, why put our sisters on the line for something that? though innocent, it could really cause damage. We had a list from a fraternity that was the most repulsive thing i've ever seen. the word gentlemen, does not apply to this house anymore because a few perverts were in control of the chapter. I wish we could do the innocent types of scavenger hunts, but bad stuff happens and now we are all liable becuse some drunk ass decided to take it over the line. We need to find other ways to get people to bond, it is hard, but there has to be something, as effective, without the potential for harm and abuse.

It just disgusts me, what people will ask for on scavenger hunts, unless we can ban them from greek life completely we might as well just accept it.

[enlightenment06]

is just anything in the world today hazing?

[IvySpice]

Sure, hazing brings pledge classes together, but why? It's not the humiliation and fear. It's the fact that the members overcame a very tough challenge together.

So how to get the good without the bad? Give the chapter positive, uplifting, difficult challenges.

Challenge members to double the chapter's philanthropy fundraising in one semester; to build an entire house for Habitat for Humanity in a single week; to rehearse till all hours for weeks on end and put on the best step show the campus has ever seen; to work out and practice every single day until the intramural teams could beat the school's varsity squads. Demand that every single member put blood, sweat, and tears into the project. This will accomplish every purported goal of hazing -- weeding out the guys who are just there to party, bonding the pledge class together, building trust among the members -- without any of the cruelty and pain and humiliation and danger of hazing. There's nothing good that can come of hazing that can't come about through better, safer, kinder, more brotherly means.

Ivy

[adpiucf]

I honestly think that we as a Greek System have good intentions, but over the years, someone took their "good intentions" to a whole new level, and NPC has really cracked down on just what it is that separates a new member from an initiated one. Without regard to these rules, charters can be suspended, insurance rates inflate which causes substantial increases in dues and less social events, and more. I apologize to those who feel these measures to reduce the potential of hazing are unnecessary, but I'd rather come back and see my chapter still functioning and going strong in 20 years, and a chapter based on mutual respect and rapport, than coming into my old house, which is now marked with someone else's letters, all because my sisters defied the rules in the name of adolescent fun and rebellion. Those ends, in my mind, do not justify the means. There are other ways to have a good time and gain mutual respect and fraternal loyalty. I think all of our "traditions" that are now regarded as hazing can be modified to an extent where everyone wins.

[33girl]

Originally posted by adpiucf
I'd rather come back and see my chapter still functioning and going strong in 20 years, and a chapter based on mutual respect and rapport, than coming into my old house, which is now marked with someone else's letters, all because my sisters defied the rules in the name of adolescent fun and rebellion.

If you dilute your pledge program to the point that anyone with a pulse can become a sister without showing any real commitment, and continue in that manner, your chapter probably won't be there in 20 years anyway...

[enlightenment06]

Originally posted by 33girl
If you dilute your pledge program to the point that anyone with a pulse can become a sister without showing any real commitment, and continue in that manner, your chapter probably won't be there in 20 years anyway...

I was just thinking in my head, if there is no sort of rite of passage or test to get into a Greek organization, what's the point of joining a fraternity or sorority? What then separates fraternities and sororities from any other club on campus? Don't get me wrong, I'm not for the senseless beating or torture etc. etc. of anyone, but shouldn't there be some qualification besides a nice resume or flashy smile?

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by teke4life
i think a lot of the reasons these events are banned are not b/c of hazing problems, but accident problems. people tend to get hurt when they are running around doing kidnappings and scavenger hunts...

I agree, accidents are an important factor in considering whether or not these events should be banned. But I also think that they can be hazing.
My chapter doesn't do this so I have never participated in a scavenger hunt.kidnapping, etc, so I can't really say how I would feel if it were to happen. I'd like to think that if these activites were not considered hazing and my chapters was to have activites likes this that were would do it with the utmost respect for each other and make sure it was fun, and not force anyone to do anything that they were the slightest bit uncomfotable with.
I think the problem is that there are members/chapters of some orgs that cross the line. That where the hazing comes in. I think our orgaizations have banned these activites because of the certain members/chapters that have crossed the line between fun and hazing. If we can't all participate in these kinds of activites responsibly then we can't participate in them at all.