BadJocks has officially declared it the "Capitol of College Hazing."

[bellauwood2]

This is a pretty serious accusation. Considering the source is appropriate.


__________________
DFE
Delta Phi Epsilon
Dedication Pride Excellence

Doh! If you learned to read, the sources are Channel 8 news, The Houston Chronicle, and The Associated Press...all of which sound fairly legitimate to me.

[kddani]

I'm gonna have to stick up for my own org.

Not only am I a Kappa Delta, I am a member (not to mention PRESIDENT) of Phi Alpha Delta LAW fraternity.

Phi Alpha Delta is the preeminent law fraternity in the country with chapters at 183 law schools (which is the VERY vast majority... i think there's only somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 or so total).

Why did you feel the need to attack an org who did nothing to you and who had nothing to do with the post? What does Phi Alpha Delta have to do with anything here?

And like several people have said, with a serious accusation such as this, considering the source is pretty important. Also, it's not a GLO implicated in any way, so why is it even on this site? Last time I checked this was GREEKchat.com

[hoosier]

Richard/Decadance has more time than I do.

If your web page or profile lists a GLO, I would assume you to be a member, but that's not the case here for Richard/Decadance.

I frequently post GLO news items I find with "Google News". I throw them up against the wall, and see what sticks or attracts responses.

I just found a new signature, which pretty much sumarizes the chapters mentioned in some of my posts.

Have fun and enjoy.

[Rudey]

Listen this section is about risk management, so obviously articles on hazing that shed a negative light on fraternities will appear here.

To claim that these articles are public and need not be here is stupid. In the same light, much positive news that is public should not be displayed here. The fact is that this site has been compiling posts/news/advice for several years now and has some information on it from other sources. There is nothing wrong with that.

If you have a problem with a post, why not find detail how the poster is violating Greekchat rules and PM the mod?

Those that did not enjoy the source, can say so but the thread is not about the source. One post would have been sufficient to inform people (if they were unable to determine something so blatant).

-Rudey
--Mature

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Rudey
Listen this section is about risk management, so obviously articles on hazing that shed a negative light on fraternities will appear here.

To claim that these articles are public and need not be here is stupid. In the same light, much positive news that is public should not be displayed here. The fact is that this site has been compiling posts/news/advice for several years now and has some information on it from other sources. There is nothing wrong with that.

If you have a problem with a post, why not find detail how the poster is violating Greekchat rules and PM the mod?

Those that did not enjoy the source, can say so but the thread is not about the source. One post would have been sufficient to inform people (if they were unable to determine something so blatant).

-Rudey
--Mature

quoted for the "stick to the subject at hand" crew - seriously, why the hell did this become a thead about a Law School fraternity?

Stay on topic - and guess what? HAZING IS THE TOPIC (read the topline boss)

[decadence]

RIGHT. As some posters here namely Hoosier have a problem understanding certain things I'll try to explain try to explain clearly.

Originally posted by "Hoosier" : If your web page or profile lists a GLO, I would assume you to be a member, but that's not the case here for Richard/Decadance. I frequently post GLO news items I find with "Google News". I throw them up against the wall, and see what sticks or attracts responses.

My username for the record is spelt DecadEnce. Unsurprising you erred though, as I see from the rest of your comments that you have a problem reading. As for my profile/web page "listing a GLO" as you put it, neither my GC profile nor a sig. for my posts has contained the name of ANY fraternity EVER. As for the web page I created, it clearly indicates [in large pretty colours] the words "interest group”, plus text like: "XYZ is the fraternity we hope to affiliate to", "unable to declare any affiliation until granted a charter" etc etc. Bar adding a streaming audio file to the site with my voice on it shouting "WE ARE AN INTEREST GROUP NOT YET CHARTERED TO ANY FRATERNITY" I don’t see what more I could do!! I would have thought those words would make it clear it was NOT a chapter of a fraternity... to all but the least sentient of people?
As for me "having more time than you", Hoosier; while I'm not quite sure how you arrive at that conclusion, it's hard to see how anyone could period, when such a large proportion of your time is clearly devoted to filling up this board with your relentless dirge.

Originally posted by bellauwood2: "Doh! If you learned to read, the sources are Channel 8 news, The Houston Chronicle, and The Associated Press...all of which sound fairly legitimate to me."

In reference to the rest of the posters here defending his contemptible acts, leaving aside the fact "bellauwood2" is a new member with only one post ever - causing me to wonder how close that poster's logged IP address might be to certain others in this thread... (the text by the way of the post is a cut and paste of the one made by 'Cream' earlier)... I CAN read, I have learnt thank you. Conversely, it seems Hoosier either cannot or will not. The veracity of a news story is in no way related to how many papers in happens to be syndicated through. This is leaving aside exactly how irrelevant the story was to this forum which I'll spell out a little more later for 'certain people'.

Originally posted by "Hoosier": I frequently post GLO news items I find with "Google News". I throw them up against the wall, and see what sticks or attracts responses.

Do you now... GLO stands for "Greek Letter Organisation" those are fraternities or sororities named with Greek Letters - the clue is in the name. Contrary to what you seem to think, "Corps of Cadets" is NOT a fraternity, NOT a sorority, is NOT named with Greek letters, has NOTHING to do with greek life, is therefore WHOLLY inappropriate for Greekchat and therefore (in my opinion and clearly others’ too) should NOT be here. As for your "throwing them up against the wall" drivel, to paraphrase that, would be to say "I inflame, stir up and cause trouble, incite contention". Sad. Pretty much ALL you do is post these news items.

Originally posted by Rudey: Listen this section is about risk management, so obviously articles on hazing that shed a negative light on fraternities will appear here.

Thanks, I know what the section is for Rudey. I utterly fail to see how a news article which has nothing to do with any fraternity whatsoever could possibly manage to 'shed negative light on fraternities'?

Originally posted by KSig RC: quoted for the "stick to the subject at hand" crew - seriously, why the hell did this become a thread about a Law School fraternity? Stay on topic - and guess what? HAZING IS THE TOPIC (read the topline boss)

Re HAZING being the topic, Hazing is the subtopic, the topic of the entire BOARD is Greek Letter ORG's. On the thread mentioning a Law fraternity, I'll try to explain KsigRC. I'm pretty much incandescent with rage about this. "Hoosier", in lieu of any actual justification for his behaviour went off in search of something - anything - to say. After looking at my GC profile (it contains a link to a site I created for the interest group I’m part of – you probably heard me talk about it in other posts unlike Hoosier who no doubt generally doesn’t read much of GC (?) having apparent little interest in promoting, enjoying or furthering Greek Life) Hoosier desparately attempted to bring a fraternity into this thread and suggest I claimed membership of it, in a laughable attempt to attack me and somehow justify something, succeeding only in embarrassing himself by ignoring the words interest group, not a member of XYZ etc etc which are all in nice big letters on the pages. In any case, Hoosier doesn’t only post this stuff in the Risk Management forum, the Greek Life forum is OFTEN subjected to it as well. Despite complaints made.

Originally posted by "Hoosier": Not every site is... Some are just for fun.

And so we finally reach the crux of your nasty persistent discrediting-attempt greek smear campaign do we? "FUN"? Is this why you subject us to all this?? Posting in excess of 450 items over time since only Jan 2002 all to subvert Greek life (!!!), ignoring the wishes of the vast majority here. Get a kick out of it huh?
Still, I don't expect a reply; feel free to "dismiss me as a hyper liberal - whatever you said" I'm a big boy and can take it. Perhaps if and when you emotionally mature you might cease to get malicious enjoyment from trying to fill a forum dedicated TO and FOR greeks with information negative to greek life - much of which as has been said isn't even Greek info in the first place.

Originally posted by Tom Earp: That is why in the middle of the 10:00 news I got out of bed and emailed the biggest TV station in K. C. Metro about a Item on another Fraternity other than mine and took them to task!

Tom Earp, your passion and admiration for greek life is not in question. Your devotion and hard work to the Greek community is nothing but admired. Despite how you may disagree with my calling Hoosier up on all of this, I still have a lot of respect for you and have no venom or bad feeling toward you. Conversely, Hoosier sadly, does not follow fraternity news and fraternity life with the same noble ideals and genuine interest in them as you so clearly do. My opinion of you Tom, is that you are a shining example of what a lifelong member of a fraternity should be - your passion for LXA not diminished by time, and a credit to your organisation now, as before. Hoosier meanwhile just seems to be a pustule on the face of this messageboard.
His entire demeanour toward fraternities it seems is animosity - evidenced BY an utter inability to explain why (without sidetracking into details about how I’m a member of a GLO (complete drivel, no webpage said anything of the sort) and, incoherent rambling about how that GLO to which he incorrectly ascribes me has an alumni lawyer he doesn't like... yawn) he posts this stuff over and over and over. In failing to respond, perhaps Hoosier feels it’s better for people to assume him an idiot than to open his mouth and remove all doubt? Perhaps that’s why he pretty much never actually comes out with a view on a fraternity beyond parasitically scanning the net for dirt in an attempt to "contribute". Then again maybe he thinks it is better not to participate in arguments in which he is ill equipped to defend himself?

Originally posted by Rudey: Those that did not enjoy the source, can say so but the thread is not about the source. One post would have been sufficient to inform people (if they were unable to determine something so blatant).

Rudey, the thread is not about the source per se. The reason people mentioned the source at all is because it is so 'trashy' and so, questionable. Moreover, the thread diversified into discussion on how the post was not remotely anything to do with Greek life anyway. Hoosier attempted to bring a 100% unrelated fraternity into this, but the fundamental topic the thread IS centring around is not simply one isolated post of an article (however irrelevant) but a discussion on exactly WHY Hoosier is choosing to do this generally – in other words his posts in general not this one thread. As yet no real response from him.

We all know why **I'm** here on GC. A clear passion for the ideals of greek life, trying to start my own interest group which will hopefully petition for a chapter of an international, I ask for help with some issues, debate other issues, I enthusiastically offer help whenever I can to other GC'ers on any subjects which I am qualified to do so, et cetera. In other words I have a genuine and honest interest in what the messageboard is about. Sadly it seems to be all too clear why Hoosier is here too .

Originally posted by Rudey: If you have a problem with a post, why not find detail how the poster is violating Greekchat rules and PM the mod?

IT IS THE PATTERN not a single example which we are talking about. All "Hoosier" does is post this. It's no surprise there is discussion about this.
Again, the rules of GC are not many. GC is considered a forum for adults not children and thus I imagine it is hoped posters use the forum in good faith and respect others... as opposed to coming on purely to cause trouble and never managing to say anything positive about GLOs in the space of sixteen months. I mean, if you intrinsically don't LIKE fraternities or sororities why be a member of a group (online or otherwise) where you will end up hanging around people who're in them? Difficult to believe you do like them if this is how you communicate about them.

There’s a world of difference between say James or Ilovemyglo (first two GC’ers I just thought of ) posting, with a tinge of sadness, a negative story they have come across about a fraternity, and someone else who solely does that without ever doing anything else. In light, of that not being their (James'/ IlovemyGLO'/random member's) raison d etre. Posting story after story without ever doing anything else and doing it all with a smile on your lips and a song in your heart, in a wholescale directed effort to discredit greek life is just not the same ballpark.

As for your suggestion of PM'ing the mods or administrators, that I guess is an option open to me yes. Thank you. As a mere member, it is up to the moderators what they do with my opinion, everything is at their discretion. I wanted to give Hoosier a chance to respond, in seek of an explanation for his reprehensible conduct. To date he has failed to give one. It’s my opinion that Hoosier threatens the integrity of this online community, deliberately tries to cause trouble and offence, albeit in a more insidious and less obvious way than others upon whom the moderators and administrators have taken action upon in the past. I may act on your suggestion.

Feedback welcome.

-- Decadence.

[hoosier]

So far, this non-GLO-member and reputedly future lawyer has racked up about 14 hours of billable time, attacking this lovable Hoosier teddy bear.

I think the 14 hours - probably at $150 - $200 per hour - are because:

1 - he doesn't think TX A&M is the capital of hazing

or

2 - he doesn't think this forum of geniuses should be soiled by mentioning www.badjocks.com

or

3 - that law fraternity is not receptive to him or his weeney A&T teachers junior college and welding school.

or

4 - he doesn't like any Hoosiers
(he probably didn't like Bobby Knight either)

or

5 - he feels bad Sadaam lost

I think an upcoming post will include his Pay Pal account number, asking his GC Friends to donate to help him recover part of his billable hours.

Hoosier does love GLOs, especially the neighbor Chi O's in Bloomington, who were immortalized by Hoagy Carmichael in this snappy ditty: "We love the Chi O's, we always will,
'cause a Chi O always will"

Hoosier is uncertain about a certain law fraternity, especially considering their choice in alumni.

[decadence]

Hmm. No response to my actual points then?

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by decadence


Feedback welcome.

-- Decadence.

Hi boss -

I'm not going to go through point-by-point, as I have a limited amount of time to complete an inordinate number of tasks today - however, I'll make three easy-to-quote comments that you can respond to in like:

1- You completely strawmanned Hoosier's purpose here with your incessent attacking and counterattacking back and forth (and, yes, Hoosier has weakened his stance by doing the same) - can you not see this?

2 - If your reason for being on the board is your interest group, and you seem to be asserting that to be a goal of the highest order (which I won't argue with), why would you cut on Hoosier for having a similarly singular reason for posting?

Personally, I find Hoosier to be a valuable member of this board - the things he posts are far more valuable to the greek community (generally social greeks, but again they comprise a large portion of greek life) than almost any other posts in this forum, greek life, and etc.

3 - Finally . . . you again strawman the argument with your semantic argument about "topic/subtopic" - being a pedantic ass doesn't get anyone anywhere; our discussion here is quickly falling off the cliff into fallacious logic and faulty argument.

Bottom line: this is a forum set up to discuss Risk Management issues - and hazing is one of the two biggest issues facing greek life today, in my opinion (the other being drug/alcohol use/abuse). If you don't desire discussion, or don't like the way Hoosier presents things, fine - but don't resort to ad hominem attacks and then claim the moral highground. That's ridiculous - if you desire, take the high road and discuss the topic in a mature fashion, just like you're asking everyone else to.

[decadence]

1- You completely strawmanned Hoosier's purpose here with your incessent attacking and counterattacking back and forth (and, yes, Hoosier has weakened his stance by doing the same) - can you not see this?
2 - If your reason for being on the board is your interest group, and you seem to be asserting that to be a goal of the highest order (which I won't argue with), why would you cut on Hoosier for having a similarly singular reason for posting?

Hmm, I wasn't trying to say 'look at me I'm so great'. What I meant, was I merely have a legitimate reason for being here, an interest in chatting about Greek life (GreekChat). That's all. Someone who posts in the Rush forum 'there are x sororities on my campus, what do you think of them etc etc' also has a similarly valid reason (though different) for being here. Someone with a nickname like ilovemyglo (sorry to keep picking on the same person but that screenname illustrates things so well!) is clearly here because they love the Greek group they're a part of - so naturally they wanna chat about it and what better place than GreekChat?! Likewise, the words KSig are in your screen-name so I'd guess you're part of a GLO with the words Kappa Sigma in it... talking about something you are involved in is normal... hence you're here in Greekchat too.

Hoosier though seems to have no reason for being here other than to shout "Greeks suck. Look, I've brought evidence!" Nothing CONSTRUCTIVE is ever said by him. There's no debate, nothing damnit. .

Personally, I find Hoosier to be a valuable member of this board - the things he posts are far more valuable to the greek community (generally social greeks, but again they comprise a large portion of greek life) than almost any other posts in this forum, greek life, and etc.

I disagree with him being a valuable member of this board and respectfully and gently state I feel you misunderstand his motives. Yes, Hazing IS one of the most important topics facing greeks. I'm reminded of this every time I have an interest meeting and the new people ask me if they're gonna be made to eat goldfish/run around topless/if it's true what their friend said or what they heard, etc. (and yes those questions were asked).

But Hoosier's motive seem to me not to be to "highlight an issue close to his heart in the hope a community will seek new ways to combat the problem". It seems to be merely a wish to *rub our noses in the fact* there are some idiots out there who like to bully people trying to join their orgs. Ksig, he doesn't seem to be saddened by the fact some more negative publicity has come along... he seems to REVEL IN IT.

I'm not trying to hide away from the Hazing issue, damn no. But it CAN be discussed constructively, across this entire buletin board. I've read posts in the HBGLO forums analysing hazing - with ideas put forward such as alumni and people important in their community coming along on an afternoon to the dining areas; explaining this is hazing and what to do about it here's a tel # on which to report it. I've seen people tackling head on *why* hazing has been prevalent and considering what ways to accomplish the same positive end-results (if any) those who indulged in it deemed it had. I've seen sadness expressed at what's been done in the name of brotherhood and sisterhood.
And then... there's the impression I get from Hoosier's posts.

Maybe I'm flogging a dead horse, maybe I should shut the hell up . Maybe I'm oh-so-confused. Maybe all I'm doing is pissing people off. There certainly isn't a flood of responses in the same vein of mine (as an aside: heartfelt thanks for those who did comment in support).

As for my 'personal remarks' aka insults, yeah maybe they weaken my stance a bit but they were made impetuously, in the course of making other considered points. ALL I've seen from Hoosier is attacks without any actual points made; without responses to issues raised or answers to questions. So yeah there was some name calling on my part in the course of debating - but s'all there was from him, ever. I HAVE asked what his motives are, whether he even likes/supports fraternities and sororities. The only (IMO not particularly humorous) response he seemed to make was some crap suggesting how members of a certain sorority were 'easy'.

I'm not trying to suggest I'm superior or better than the next guy - I'm not. I dunno maybe I should go away if I don't like it. Hell, I don't like his actions, I don't support his apparent agenda. No way do I get the impression he's nobly making heartfelt attempts to improve the community his beloved fraternity (if he is in one) is a part of. I just can't help thinking of that quote, went something like "all that's needed for evil to triumph is for good 'men' to do nothing". That's why this thread has me in it giving my views. Often the stuff he regurgitates has a tenuous or non existent connection with GLOs anyway.
Look at the Hazing forum itself, even the first page of threads is filled with threads started by him - let alone the rest of the pages, over time. There are other thread starters, sure. But they're always posted with comments like 'when will we ever learn'. Those GC members intentions are not under debate. They're not appearing to take <if I could remember that German word which means 'to take a malicious pleasure in someone else's misfortune' it'd be put here> in all of this.

And yep, Hazing is kinda the topic for this sub-forum/forum/whatever but it's not provided so Hoosier can simply say 'here's yet another article, I hope all you people out there know what 'you' spend your time doing - you sickos'. Risk Management is about managing risks, addressing the issues.
Christ he's been here a year and a half almost, not once has he seemed to debate how the problems can be addressed, given any views on how to combat the evils of hazing yet still people commend him??? All he does is post this anti greek information over and over and over. Does the word Troll mean nothing to GC'ers ? This link explains it. Seems to sum things up .

There is one HELL of a difference between bravely highlighting the spectre of hazing in an effort to improve greek life as a whole and waving examples around like trophies, in an effort to weaken it.

That's all I have to say about that now. Sorry if I'm boring, I don't wanna sound like a broken record.

... Richard

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by decadence
***TRIMMED***

I feel everything you just said - it seemed to be from the heart, and I can appreciate that. But here's my point, in three sentences:

-I don't find your style of argumentation particularly appealing, and if you'd like to argue a particular point, feel free to stray from logical fallacies and attacking the person (just like Hoosier should, but doesn't always) - then we're having an intellectual discussion, and maybe then you'll be justified in what often seems to be an 'ivory tower' reaction

-Regardless of his intentions, Hoosier provides a valuable resource - REGARDLESS! - as his posts highlight things many (esp on here) would rather sweep under the rug . . . take a look at what happens when some of our more highly represented organizations were accused for examples (the magical "search" feature)

-Sir, we're more than familiar with trolls around here - we get them like no other message board you've ever seen.

Richard - you seem like a level guy, I'm glad you're here, and I hope you understand where I'm coming from a little better

[Rudey]

Yeah, ummm I'm creating a collection of rather large posts and this thread qualifies for half that collection.

-Rudey
--Look for it in the "Big Book of Crap Nobody Cares About"

[hoosier]

To quote the LINK Richard posted:

"The noun form, troll, ... frequently this is used to discredit one position in an argument. By asserting that one's opponents are trolls, one is asserting that they are only maintaining their position in order to feed the flames, and that their position is actually indefensible."

Yes, all of my advisors agree that Richard falsely accuses Hoosier of being a Troll, in an attempt to discredit Hoosier personally.

What is that Pay Pal account number?

PS: I've always admired the Kappa Sigs, and have visited their mansion/hdqtrs. in Charlottesville. Their members - especially KSig RC - seem to post very intelligent thoughts, often summarizing in a few words what others take multi-paragraphs and pages to say.

[hoosier]

My mistake. I'm sorry I wasted the GC's time and cyberspace by posting something which caught the attention of hyper-user Richard/Decadence.

When I looked up some of his recent posts, I learned that he mostly lives in ChitChat, so Hazing/Risk Management is way over his head.

Here's a few examples of his level of competence, and I hope he stays in ChitChat:


"Does anyone use the shampoo (blue) and conditioner (yellow) from the Olsen twins range?
Smell really nice and claim to be really good for your hair. So I, uh, heard..."



"I don't think I have a regional accent myself.
But I've been told lots of times 'Ooh you sound like Hugh Grant'. Or that I sound 'posh'. Can't see it myself oh well."

... Decadence

[FuzzieAlum]

SHUP UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!

Geez, ya'll are making Greeks look like a bunch of petty, whining complainers. I don't care if you two, Hoosier and DecadEnce, don't like each other. Take it to PM so the rest of us don't have to hear about it. ("Don't read the thread if you don't like it?" I was trying to read a thread about hazing at A&M, not about whose balls are bigger.) I don't care who has how much free time, what your credentials are, or what your motivations are in posting.

Now, back to the topic ... we can conclude several things. 1) Hazing happens. 2) Hazing isn't just a GLO problem. 3) The media, whether reputable or not, always reports more negative news than positive news, whether the subject is GLOs or anything else. And what is our positive news anyway? Usually, it's something like your GLO raised $300 for a charity. I bet that charity's average individual donation is at least that anyway. That's not news. If your GLO cancels its formal and donates the money toward helping a homeless teen go to college, then you can complain the press doesn't cover it. Just going about your day and being a decent organization is NOT newsworthy.