help! stay in local or go to national

[Tom Earp]

R.E.D,

I am sure taht you will make the right decision for you and your other members who are undecided.

I thought it was in poor taste from some GCers that you were betraying your pledge. You are not bound to a local, and if the situation has become unberable, you must come to a decision. If your local does not want to associate with a Natonal, that is thier right.

If they were realistic and looked at why the Local was started, there should be no problem. They broke the oath and the beleif, not you!

Good Luck, let us know what is going on!

[archangel689]

My view of this situation is that:

In the instance a group as a whole decides to change direction and you disagree with that change and quit, your quiting is not justified (_IF_ thats the only reason). SACRIFICE is what makes greek organizations work. The will of the chapter comes before the will of any individual.



Thats my take on it and I'll keep it at that.

[MysticCat]

I'll agree with Archangel to a point. But if the change is one that fundamentally changes the nature of the group or that undermines the basis upon which you pledged to begin with (as in making the decision to pledge because of assurances that the local would be actively seeking national affiliation) to the point that the group really is no longer the same organization you pledged, then I think you haven't left the group. The group has left you.

Of course, none of us (including Archangel) knows anything about the pledge that rayray took when she joined the local in question. Only rayray does, so only she is in a position to decide whether quitting the local and pledging an NPC group would compromise or violate the pledge she made to the local, or whether such action would be justified.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
But if the change is one that fundamentally changes the nature of the group or that undermines the basis upon which you pledged to begin with (as in making the decision to pledge because of assurances that the local would be actively seeking national affiliation) to the point that the group really is no longer the same organization you pledged, then I think you haven't left the group. The group has left you.

Exactly.

Saying you won't pledge somebody who left another organization under ANY circumstances is ridiculous. Sometimes we make vows that we mean at the time, but people change. And if this change was something as large as wanting to pursue national affiliation vs. giving up on it, and rayray pledged this group in part because she wanted to be in a national group and this group "promised" that to her -- they broke their promise.

[archangel689]

I agree with you sugar and spice.

If a group promised something to someone, and they joined on the basis of that promise, I believe that promise should be fulfilled. However, In this case, we don't know if a promise to go national was made to her, or if it was even a condition in her decision to join.

[White_Chocolate]

Originally posted by archangel689
To "quit" a local and disown your sisters, then join a national chapter on campus is to break a life long oath you made to them. It's dishonorable to even consider the option.

if that's the case, i would not be a phi sig right now
our sorority was a local but they saw that being national held more opportunities
and phi sigma sigma was the only sorority that allowed for all of their alumnae to consider themselves phi sigma sigma sisters as well
it introduced the members of theta chi omega to a world that they weren't apart of. . .because due to monetary circumstances, they couldn't afford a big college and the costs that come along with being in a big college sorority. . .

be reasonable. . .there's nothing wrong with a local going national


hypothetical: that's like saying you would disown your sister because she divorced her husband and married another guy
she took a vow to the first husband. . .and that vow is lifelong. . .

[archangel689]

White_Chocolate, I think you totally missunderstood me. I am not claiming that a local taking on a national affiliation is wrong in any way or form.

I am stating my opinion that a fully initiated member of a local organization who decides to "quit" then join another organization, simply because the group decided to make a change they didn't like, is unjustified in doing so. Dual membership (actively participating in two organizations) would be different in my eyes. Again, this is my opinion.

[aopinthesky]

>>>I am stating my opinion that a fully initiated member of a local organization who decides to "quit" then join another organization, simply because the group decided to make a change they didn't like<<<

Someone else said it, but I don't think that what is stated above is RayRay's situation. What I read in her post leads me to believe that when she first joined her present group there were plans in the works for her group to join a national organization. I think this goes a little beyond the group making a decision she doesn't like. She is not getting what she signed up for.

[archangel689]

Reading her posts leaves me at that same conclusion. It is my opinion, that if the group going national was a deciding factor in her joining and they promised her that they would, she'd be justified in quitting. I'd agree with you 100%, they broke a promise to her.

If this didn't happen, then It's my opinion that quitting is unjustified and that she was quitting based on the fact the group made a decision she didn't like.

The bottom line is however, that this is not by any means our decision to make. The decision is rayray's and I wish her best of luck in making that decision, because it is a damn hard one to make.

[White_Chocolate]

Originally posted by aopinthesky
What I read in her post leads me to believe that when she first joined her present group there were plans in the works for her group to join a national organization. I think this goes a little beyond the group making a decision she doesn't like. She is not getting what she signed up for.

see, this is what i thought too

[rayray]

Ok just a little background 411
My sorority was founded 3 years ago, i know we are still young but we have worked our butts off to get where we are.
3 out of the 8 founders were actually from a national organization on campus. Due to some problems( if you really want the details i'll give them to you on PM...and it wasnt hazing..) They disaffiliated with the organization and created my sorority with the intention of not having any of the problems that they had in the previous sorority as well as the goal to one day become affiliated with a national sorority. They knew that when and if this day did come they would not be able to initiate but getting us to that point and creating something from scratch and have the great honor and accomplishment was what they dreamnt for. Hope this helps a little

[archangel689]

rayray, I understand the complications of starting a greek organization, and I really feel for you.

I too had to suffer through these complications, as I am a founder of my group. We had 3 presidents resign and quit, we also expelled one president and an advisor during the five year period we were an interest group.

Prior to colonization, our president and vice-president debased the entire fraternity, said we didn't have what it took, that we would never chapterize... and quit. They walked out the door...

Brothers were disheartened, and the question of whether or not we even wanted to be a fraternity anymore was brought up on the table..... the alumni brought up a question to us that I bring to you now:

Your group has worked too long and too hard to stop now, how can you let anyone stop you from reaching the goal?

I don't know if your sorority is an "interest group" or not, or if you do pledging, or not, if you don't this might be the problem but I know its impossible to impliment such a program at this stage. younger sisters are like children and think they know everything...
they need every thing explained 55 million times and its extremely fustrating.

Perhaps a session in which the entire history of the sorority was recited to the entire group would instill some understanding in the younger sisters as to why they should uphold the desires of the founders. We did this, and it seemed to help the younger brothers understand.

The opinion that it is no longer the "founders' sorority" any more, and it is now their sorority may come up. You might have to remind them that it is not just theirs, and that all greek organizations have alumni boards, and the alumni can dissolve the chapter if they so choose.

It's one thing if the undergraduate group decides to change things, it's another if there are undergraduate members that have chosen to spit on the mission and goals set by their founders.

If this situation is really out of control and you want the best advice there is you might want to email David Stolman, he's saved entire greek systems and travels the country giving seminars. He'll talk to you over email, but he travels A LOT, so don't expect a super quick response. It's Stollman@campuspeak.com

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Ray Ray - I think that there is some internal business that your sorority must do. Primarily, debate and vote whether or not to go national. You pledged your sorority with the intention of going national as that was one of the goals from its founding. I think that your sorority ought to clarify its goals soon so that you and your sisters know where the sorority stands. Do you have a mission statement? If not the sorority needs to write one.

I think that if the majority of the sisters decide to go national, then you are set. You can't allow a few sisters to dominate the debate. If the majority of sisters do not want to go national then you have that answer and bigger questions. Should you continue with this sorority or persue membership in another established NPC sorority on campus? What are the local panhellenic rules regarding this? Are you allowed to drop your sorority and rush?

I don't think anyone has been disloyal or a backstabber. I think that you are permitted to see what your options are. You want to join a national sorority. That's great! I think that your sorority should decide what it wants to do as a whole. If the majority wants to do national, that is your answer.