Anti-War Protesters.... - Page 2

CanadianTeke · #16 03-22-2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RUgreek
P.S. It just really tears me up inside that Canada is not supporting us; those 15 troops really would have been helpful. By the way, don't we own that part of North America??

I don't understand what the purpose of insulting Canada is. I'm glad you support the war, way to go here's your medal. Canada has been involved in every United Nations peacekeeping mission to date. We invented peacekeeping for fucks sake. We may not have a strong military, but we don't need one. WE DON"T PISS PEOPLE OFF! last time i checked there were 3 countries participating in the coalition of the willing, Australia, USA and The United Kingdom, there are more than 200 countries on the face of the planet. Perhaps, just maybe, there is a reason 197+ aren't participating. So know what i would suggest you pull your head out of your ass and stop being ignorant.

librasoul22 · #17 03-22-2003, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZZ-kai-
In response to any and all who may have found my choice of words harmful, distasteful, offending...etc., get over it. I do not believe that Anti-War protesters are Anti-American, in fact I do not remember typing this in this OPEN forum. lovelyivy84, that was meant for you. This is an OPEN forum, and quite frankly, this discussion is great. There has been more hostility on GreekChat when people bicker whether Phi Mu is "cooler" than Chi Omega, or if Phi Delt is "neater" than Sigma Chi.

DeltAlum, just because you are like 65 and I am not, does not make you any more "experienced" than me. I don't need to serve in a war to understand them, and if you have served in a war, may god bless you and I thank you personally. Why? Because your actions in that war have lead to the free society that we all live in today, and it allows me to walk hand in hand with my fiancé next to me, not behind me. Again, thank you. But, don't try to knock me down because of my opinions either, that would be hypocrisy.

Once again, we are AT war - not going to, or thinking about war. We need to support our troops, support the actions of our Government and all that they believe, and stand behind them as a nation to show Iraq (and all other evils) that we are united. George Bush would not lead us into something for shits-and-giggles.

This is a war, there will be body bags, there will be deaths and sadly that is how it is. Deal with it.

Lastly, George Dubya did not take that Marines life the other night. Yes, I feel sorrow for his family and his father, but that man CHOSE to join the military and fight for his country....And I thank him for it.

I am Pro- American

LOL. ZZkai ai aye whatever: Get over yourself. In a hurry.

You know, I think some of you are missing the point of the war protesters. While we are AT war and it may seem sort of obsolete to protest it, I think are most of them are there to show the world that not EVERY American thinks this is right. I doubt they really think their protests will HALT the war, it is more demonstration of dissent to show other nations that not every American blindly agrees with whatever Bush says just because he is the President.

Personally, I do not agree with this war. But since we are in it, I sincerely hope that our troops perform what they are asked, and do so swiftly so that it can be over. I am not un-patriotic, I just do not agree with BUSH or his lies. Guess what? The Constitution says I can do that! And you know what is REALLY unpatriotic? When people say "if you don't like it then leave!" To me, that is the most UN-American thing ever.

#18 03-22-2003, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by librasoul22
I am not un-patriotic, I just do not agree with BUSH or his lies.

your post lost all credibility with that ignorant statement right there.

Kitso
KS 361

sugar and spice · #19 03-22-2003, 06:43 PM

I am getting so sick of hearing the "if you don't like it, get out" rhetoric -- or here, the even better, "if you don't like it, why don't you go live under Saddam's rule." The only response that seems appropriate to that is, if you're so pro-war, why aren't you over there fighting? Is the logic in that ridiculous? Yes. So is the logic in the "don't like it? get out" threat. In case you don't remember, if nobody had ever protested against those in charge, America would not EXIST right now.

Quote:

Originally posted by ZZ-kai-

Once again, we are AT war - not going to, or thinking about war. We need to support our troops, support the actions of our Government and all that they believe, and stand behind them as a nation to show Iraq (and all other evils) that we are united. George Bush would not lead us into something for shits-and-giggles.

I support our troops . . . but I will not blindly support the government just for the simple reason that it's "our government." It's stuff like that that leads to situations like that currently in Iraq. We can't be afraid to question our government, to disagree with it, or to show our disapproval -- if nothing else, I support the protesters simply because they are exercising some of our greatest rights as Americans. And to me, that is way more patriotic than supporting the war. If you were truly pro-American, as you claim to be, then why does it upset you that these people are using their freedom of speech while you complain, at the same time, about those in Iraq not being able to have it? Why should Iraq be allowed to have free speech if you don't want people over here to be exercising theirs?

DZHBrown · #20 03-22-2003, 06:53 PM

I'm very bothered by the anti-war protesters that I have been seeing. While we haven't had a huge rally in Nashville like those that have been seen in NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc, I've been watching them on the news. Yes, I believe everyone has the right to their own opinion and has the right to voice it. However....
*Our military and our president deserve respect, whether you like the cause or not.
*Why should the opinion of others be shoved in my face and disrupt anyone's day?
*What is being acheived? The war has started and it won't stop because some people oppose it.
*A large number of protestors cannot come up with an intelligent argument against it.

I was really shocked to see such a huge turn-out in NYC. I know it's very liberal up there, but I would think NYC would understand better than anyone that terrorism needs to be stopped.
And like someone else said, saying that this is for oil is absurd. We get more oil from Canada and Mexico, and you don't see us bombing Toronto.

Yes, if we could have peace at all times, that would be fabulous. But when we have villians like Hussein and Bin Laden among our ranks, peace is not always an option. We don't need a bunch of wild protestors in the streets to pass along the fact that not everyone supports the war. Well duh. Anyone would know that.

Anyway, if someone is educated on the facts and opposes it, I have no problem with that at all. But to be uneducated and be so arrogant and forceful about it does bother me.

That's just my two cents, if it's worth that. Not meant to offend anyone, just something I feel strongly about.

FiReKraCkEr · #21 03-22-2003, 06:53 PM

I think the anti and pro war arguments show the healthy democracy of our country. Just to know that we are in a country where we are allowed to express our own opinions and views makes me love being an United States citizen more.

So, before any of you start name calling and flaming...let's come together and pray for the troops who are risking their lives out there. We can atleast do something that matters...

Sorry, I'll get off my Ivory Soap Box

Ivory

DZHBrown · #22 03-22-2003, 06:56 PM

Quote:

The only response that seems appropriate to that is, if you're so pro-war, why aren't you over there fighting? Is the logic in that ridiculous? Yes.

If you really think about it, that's not necessarily the most logical argument. I know that there are people out there who DO want to be involved and DO want to defend our country and cannot due to medical reasons and such. Sure, not everyone falls in that category, but I know many do.

Furthermore, I think that if a lot of people who do protest lived in a place like Iraq or Afghanistan - especially women - it's possible that they would not be as adamant about protesting it.

Again, not trying to offend, just stating my thoughts.

sugar and spice · #23 03-22-2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DZHBrown
If you really think about it, that's not necessarily the most logical argument. I know that there are people out there who DO want to be involved and DO want to defend our country and cannot due to medical reasons and such. Sure, not everyone falls in that category, but I know many do.

I agree with you. That's why I said that . . . I was comparing the faulty logic in that argument to the faulty logic in the "If you don't like it, leave!" argument that has been repeated here so often. Neither of them make much sense to me.

cash78mere · #24 03-22-2003, 07:08 PM

i think the protests are quite useless and just serve as the "cool" thing of the moment to do.

i wish we weren't at war, but we have to remember that our country was formed by people warring against each other. we won our freedom, we freed the slaves, etc...

although i am definitely NOT a bush fan, i will support his decision to be at war. i have to trust him, as our leader, to do what is best for our country. i know that he knows a lot more than they tell the public, and i have to have faith that he has more than enough evidence to support his stance.

i hate to say it, but i will. many of these protesters are ignorant. they are going with the flow and protesting war because it is war, not what it is actually about. we gave saddam more than enough FAIR chances over the years to disarm, and he refuses. where will these anti-war protesters be when he does something terrible on OUR soil?? when he blows up a building or sends his drones in to blow themselves up? they'll feel pretty stupid then.

sugar and spice · #25 03-22-2003, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DZHBrown

*Our military and our president deserve respect, whether you like the cause or not.
*Why should the opinion of others be shoved in my face and disrupt anyone's day?
*What is being acheived? The war has started and it won't stop because some people oppose it.
*A large number of protestors cannot come up with an intelligent argument against it.

1) Why should our military and president deserve respect if they don't earn it? Respect should not be inherent in the position. Should a military man who rapes and tortures be respected? Of course not. Depending on your political and moral views, Richard Nixon and/or Bill Clinton may not be deserving of your respect either, but they were both presidents. Both the military and the government, like everyone else, need to earn respect. To me, the military has my respect, but there are several reasons why George W. Bush does not.

2) Why should the opinion of others be shoved in MY face and disrupt my day? We are at war, and there are lots of people who are of the opinion that we should be . . . that is shoved in my face every time I turn on the TV or go to Greekchat or pick up a paper or whatever. I will agree with you that those protesters who are interrupting traffic seem to be sort of . . . anti-productive, but hey, not everybody who is anti-war is out there lying down in front of traffic. That's just a small amount of us.

Again, America has, fortunately, the freedom of speech. That's why we have to have other peoples' opinions shoved in our face no matter what. And honestly, when it comes down to having to listen to opinions I don't agree with (maybe annoying, but ultimately harmless) or not be allowed to express myself at all, I'll pick the former over the latter every time.

3) What is being achieved? People are being allowed to state their opinions, exercising the freedom of speech, one of the great things about America and other free countries. The world is being shown that not all of America agrees with war. And the president is being shown just how much of America disagrees with him. I read somewhere that this is the most protesting that has ever happened in America BEFORE a war actually started, and it will probably only increase as the war continues, if it continues for an extended period of time. And what kind of role models would we be for our kids if we just shut up every time we disagreed with the government's actions?

4) I will give you the fourth one, sort of. There are plenty of protesters who think it's all about oil. While oil is clearly a part of the issue here, it is by no means the only one or even the major one, and to claim that it is is overly simplistic when the real issue is far more complex than that. But at the same time, there are also plenty of protesters who are informed and DO know what they're talking about. And the same could be said for those who are pro-war -- there are plenty of them who aren't informed and don't have a legitimate reason for it either. (I don't consider "Because the president says so" a legitimate reason.) I don't think ignorance is ever limited to just one side of the argument.

AlphaGam1019 · #26 03-22-2003, 07:29 PM

Via Neil Boortz , this link: http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=...1-023627-5923r

Quote:

A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot to head.

DZHBrown · #27 03-22-2003, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Why should our military and president deserve respect if they don't earn it? Respect should not be inherent in the position. Should a military man who rapes and tortures be respected? Of course not. Depending on your political and moral views, Richard Nixon and/or Bill Clinton may not be deserving of your respect either, but they were both presidents

I do see a point here. Thinking about it further, I found Clinton to be an embarrassment to our country. So, I'll concede that point.

Quote:

Why should the opinion of others be shoved in MY face and disrupt my day? We are at war, and there are lots of people who are of the opinion that we should be . . . that is shoved in my face every time I turn on the TV or go to Greekchat or pick up a paper or whatever. I will agree with you that those protesters who are interrupting traffic seem to be sort of . . . anti-productive, but hey, not everybody who is anti-war is out there lying down in front of traffic. That's just a small amount of us.

Stating how one feels is always acceptable, but screaming and being disruptive is not. That's the "shoved in my face" reference. And the ones who are disrupting people's days by taking up the streets and such are the ones I'm referring to when I say they disrupt lives.

Quote:

What is being achieved? People are being allowed to state their opinions, exercising the freedom of speech, one of the great things about America and other free countries. The world is being shown that not all of America agrees with war. And the president is being shown just how much of America disagrees with him.

I would think that intelligent people around the world already know that not all of America agrees with the war. That's a given. And the President has to do what's right, not what's popular. If he wanted to do something with a political agenda, he wouldn't have ever gone to war.

DZHBrown · #28 03-22-2003, 07:37 PM

AlphaGam1019 - Thanks for posting that. It puts a lot in perspective...

librasoul22 · #29 03-22-2003, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AggieSigmaNu361
your post lost all credibility with that ignorant statement right there.

Kitso
KS 361

Oh darn. Because I was SO vying for your approval.

See, it is ignorant to YOU because you disagree. It is actually an OPINION. Pretty subjective. We start running into trouble when people call each other's views "ignorant" simply because they don't mesh with your own.

And who is anyone on this board to call "most" of the war protesters ignorant? I mean, has anyone been to the demonstartions and spoken to any of these people? Is there anything at all that you are basing that claim on? No no, I mean BESIDES the fact that their feelings are different from yours. That, in and of itself, does not an ignorant person make.

It kind of bothers me that just because people are dissenting to something that you agree with, it is automatically IGNORANT and USELESS.

And let me put this in caps:

NO, I DO NOT HAVE TO SUPPORT BUSH. I DO NOT.

And to the people who think that this makes me unpatriotic I would tell them to take a long hard look at themselves, and how they define patriotism.

You know what? None of us are rushing to Iraq to go fight Bush's war, so really we have no clue at all what it is like, or what we are really supporting/protesting.

#30 03-22-2003, 07:44 PM

I don't care if you support him or not.

The reason i feel that statement was ignorant had nothing to do with the first part of your lack of support.

It had EVERYTHING to do with the throwaway statement at the end "BUSH or HIS LIES".

Please, elaborate on these lies. what has he lied about? that Saddam has SCUDS? oh no wait, those must have been missles from Iran that Patriots shot down over Kuwait. That Saddam has committed atrocities for years? see above article and others posted that reference him gassing the Kurdish people of his own country.

So, please post all his "lies" and then refute them with the "truth" so you can educate me.

Kitso
KS 361