Hazing Dogma/SigChiO MTV Fraternity Life - Page 2

kddani · #16 03-16-2003, 10:04 PM

they're listed under IFC organizations on the U Buffalo greek homepages

phisigduchesscv · #17 03-17-2003, 02:53 AM

Besides the NY laws I do believe that there are federal laws defining hazing that may be stronger then NYs

sugar and spice · #18 03-17-2003, 03:14 AM

I don't believe there are any federal anti-hazing laws, though I could be wrong.

kddani is right when she says that Sigma Chi Omega has to follow university anti-hazing rules. However, since they're a local fraternity, what happens if the university does deny their recognition? They'll probably simply go sub-rosa and continue to haze as much as they like, and then the university will have NO control over their actions whatsoever.

RUgreek · #19 03-17-2003, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kddani
Perhaps it's because they haze the crap out of their pledges, for starters. Which has an effect on the entire greek population.

Have you read the threads??? Have you seen the show?

Also judging from that official statement from UofB, i'd also be very surprised if they were still there next year.

Yea, i've read the threads, seen the show; walked the walk, talked the talk....

I think people are confused about hazing here. Trust me, what these kids are going through (on t.v.) is not hazing. Push-ups and line-ups are hardly something I would call hazing.

Maybe the argument shouldn't be if they are or are not hazing... I think the whole hazing guidelines is a bunch of malarky. In my opinion, a more reasonable, rational, logical (or whatever pc word you use for "common sense") definition of hazing should be activities that wouldn't be considered o.k. under any situation (greek or non-greek). For instance, forced drinking, not o.k. under any situation. Physical violence/abuse - not o.k. under any situation. Now doing push-ups as part of a pledge program you voluntary accepted and can quit at any time? Or being yelled at for screwing up, please, take off your diapers and grow up. Hazing is causing harm to someone in my book, a little excercise and non-alcoholic fun never hurt anyone.

But enough about my views, overall I can't say these guys are breaking any real guidelines or rules, and if they are then everyone is. Throwing them out would be nothing more than a publicity stunt. Next thing you know you'll be telling me that giving them tests and grading them is hazing. This crap always gets way too out of hand, but honestly and seriously I don't think anything yet amounts to hazing or a reason to get pissed off at these guys.

- RUgreek

Zephyr · #20 03-17-2003, 12:36 PM

RUGreek may I kindly say...I think you need to update your views on hazing! Your book is wrong! Doing pushups and standing in a line up with a blinding spot light on your face being yelled questions at by brothers...I consider that hazing. And being forced to do pushups... if they brothers are going to haze their NMs they should at least try to be a bit more creative.

Anything that can cause emotional distress, humiliation, and physical discomfort--is hazing!

Zephyr · #21 03-17-2003, 12:38 PM

RUGreek may I kindly say...I think you need to update your views on hazing! Your book is wrong! Doing pushups and standing in a line up with a blinding spot light on your face being yelled questions at by brothers...I consider that hazing. And being forced to do pushups... if they brothers are going to haze their NMs they should at least try to be a bit more creative.

Anything that can cause emotional distress, humiliation, and physical discomfort--is hazing!

While some organizations do require a test for initiation, D Phi E also considers giving the NMs tests and evaluating them to be hazing. Though it doesn't really seem like a big deal, the approach to having an anti hazing sorority/fraternity truly must be all or nothing.

RUgreek · #22 03-17-2003, 12:56 PM

It's not my book, just my opinion. I know what the definitions of hazing are, I just don't agree with them. They go too far in some areas and too small in another.

I'm not going to convince you i'm right, but at the same time don't call me wrong. Hazing occurs all the time; unless it's dangerous I don't see a problem with it. Sorry

- RUgreek

DeltAlum · #23 03-17-2003, 01:12 PM

RU,

I don't think you would find very many of us who don't believe that, if nothing else, the laws regarding hazing probably go too far, and are too ambiguous.

However, they are what they are, and whether you agree with them or not, we have to live by them or take the very real chance of doing grievous harm to our organizations.

Also, I believe S&S is correct that there currently aren't any Federeal anti-hazing laws -- but one has been recently introduced by a number of members of Congress.

To wit:

HR 1207 IH
108th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 1207

To amend the Higher Education Act of 1965 to withhold Federal student
financial assistance from students who have engaged in hazing, and
for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

March 11, 2003

Ms. WATSON (for herself, Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of Texas, Ms.
MILLENDER-MCDONALD, Mr. OWENS, and Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas)
introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on
Education and the Workforce

------------------------------------------------------------------------

A BILL

To amend the Higher Education Act of 1965 to withhold Federal student
financial assistance from students who have engaged in hazing, and
for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Hazing Prohibition Act of 2003'.

SEC. 2. LOSS OF STUDENT FINANCIAL AID ELIGIBILITY FOR HAZING.

Section 484 of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (51 U.S.C. 20 U.S.C.
1091) is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

`(s) LOSS OF STUDENT FINANCIAL AID ELIGIBILITY FOR HAZING-

`(1) SUSPENSION OF ELIGIBILITY REQUIRED- A student who has been
subjected to an official sanction for hazing, or for being an
accessory to hazing, shall not be eligible to receive any grant,
loan, or work assistance under this title during the period beginning
on the date of such sanction and ending after an interval of one year.

`(2) DEFINITIONS- For purposes of this subsection:

`(A) The term `hazing' means any assumption of authority by a student
whereby another student suffers or is exposed to any cruelty,
intimidation, humiliation, embarrassment, hardship, or oppression, or
is required to perform exercises to excess, to become sleep deprived,
to commit dangerous activities, to curry favor from those in power,
to submit to physical assaults, to consume offensive foods or
alcohol, or the threat of bodily harm or death, or the deprivation or
abridgement of any right.

`(B) The term `official sanction'--

`(i) means expulsion, suspension, probation, censure, condemnation,
reprimand, or any other disciplinary, coercive, or adverse action
taken by an institution of higher education or administrative unit of
the institution; and

`(ii) includes an oral or written warning made by an official of an
institution of higher education acting in the official capacity of
the official.'.

SEC. 3. REPORTING OF HAZING CRIMES TO STUDENTS.

(a) AMENDMENT- Section 485(f)(1)(E) of the Higher Education Act of
1965 (20 U.S.C. 1092(f)(1)(E)) is amended--

(1) by striking `and' at the end of clause (vii);

(2) by inserting `and' after the semicolon at the end of clause (viii); and

(3) by inserting after clause (viii) the following new clause:

`(ix) hazing;'.

(b) DEFINITION- Section 485(f) of such Act is further amended by
adding at the end the following new paragraph:

`(7) For purposes of this subsection, the term `hazing' has the
meaning provided in section 484(s)(2).'.

Looks like this was submitted just last week.

GeekyPenguin · #24 03-17-2003, 01:16 PM

I think that bill looks like a great idea. Thanks for sharing it, DeltAlum! Federal fin. aid is withheld from those who commit other serious offenses, and I certainly think hazing is one, and I am SO sick of seeing it rewarded. This would actually impact my campus' hazing locals too, since they can still be found guilty.

Zephyr · #25 03-17-2003, 01:27 PM

RUGreek...

I need to mention I am not a collegian, I am a Membership Development Advisor for my sorority. Therefore...I do feel that your views on hazing are wrong because part of my job is to ensure that my Chapters are not hazing, and following D Phi E's Anti Hazing policy to the letter.

Maybe in some areas the law's are stringent, but there is a reason for all the rules and regulations.

Ultimately...my beef wtih Sigma Chi Omega is that they just make fraternities look like the negative stereotype. I sometimes, admittedly enjoy watching acts of blatant human stupidity (I'm a huge fan of MTV's Jackass...)--but not when MTV is claiming that what we are seeing is "Fraternity Life."

Kristen

RUgreek · #26 03-17-2003, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr
RUGreek...

I need to mention I am not a collegian, I am a Membership Development Advisor for my sorority. Therefore...I do feel that your views on hazing are wrong because part of my job is to ensure that my Chapters are not hazing, and following D Phi E's Anti Hazing policy to the letter.

Maybe in some areas the law's are stringent, but there is a reason for all the rules and regulations.

Ultimately...my beef wtih Sigma Chi Omega is that they just make fraternities look like the negative stereotype. I sometimes, admittedly enjoy watching acts of blatant human stupidity (I'm a huge fan of MTV's Jackass...)--but not when MTV is claiming that what we are seeing is "Fraternity Life."

Kristen

Kristen,

I agree, MTV is just exploiting what everyone wants to see, the classic fraternity stereotype still going on in 2003. I know the rules say it's wrong to do these things, and I understand your position must be a strict one since you deal with many chapters, but some of the overbearing rules and wording for these hazing laws don't appear to work very successfully.

DeltAlum,

I've read the Hazing Prohibition Law, I also have reservations about giving that much power to a university (withdraw a person's financial aid based on accusations of accessory to hazing seems unreasonable), but it is a step in the right direction.

As confusing as my position appear to some of you, I am against hazing. When I finished pledging, I made a promise with my pledge brothers not to let what happened to us continue on. Was my life in danger, probably, but I made the choice to go through with it.

Anyone that uses alcohol or physical harm against another is wrong. Going further down the list, some activities are questionable as to being hazing or member-building activities. Serenading is humilating, but I don't think it's hazing. We could go on and on and on with this stuff and never accomplish anything.

Simple put, I understand why everyone believes the way they do, but some rules are made for political correctness and other are for enforcement. As long as it's safe & fun, then it shouldn't be an issue. However, MTV is just in it for the shock value and money, so there really is no debate on that side, it should never been done on camera or t.v.

- RUgreek