John Walsh Show: Prisoner's Rights, should they have any?

[DeltaSigStan]

Well, then there is the fact that, while you do get all those benefits, you do still have to sleep with one eye open, and watch your shoulder every waking minute, for you never know when that big guy in the next cell wants to cornhole you.

[James]

Well . . . being part of the mainstream culture of the United States, not having grown up among an element that automatically has a greater acquaintance with crime, and having a bit of money as well as an education I am pretty much guarenteed that I won't have to do time or as at least as much time in prison if I commit the same crime as someone that didn't grow up as lucky as I am. Or at least most likely.

Which means I can afford to be hard nosed about prison accomodations lol, because I won't be faced with a lot of choices that will lead to one. At least hopefully.

However, I think most of us pull our opinions out of our asses lol. Myself included.

I mean, how many people in this room have been to prison? How many have even done a thorough visit? At least Valkyrie can say she knows and defends clients that probably tell her what prison is like.

How many of us can say the same?

So, we have never done in depth studies. We have never visited these places or stayed there. In fact the vast majority of us don't even know someone that has been in jail well enough to have asked them in detail what the experience was like.

And yet, we will perrenially comment on posts like this how terrible it is that Prisoners live lives of luxury and all the advantages we wish we could have. Although some people have the decency to qualify their opinion by saying "if prisoners live lives of luxury".

It just makes me chuckle.

[James]

Oh wait. I wasn't finished

I actually know some people that have spent time in jail. Some are even friends. Not being a snob. Oops shock on GC since a lot of you come across kind of spoiled.

They were pretty matter of fact about the way jail is, and it sounds pretty bad.

I don't know where your inmates go, the Jail Hilton, but the ones I spoke to didn't have the option of college classes. Or a trade. They certainly didn't have TV's in their cells. Internet access? Please!

Now there are some jails where you can have more stuff . . if you pay for it. And buy it through the prison system. No Discount Store prices for you lol.

And there are both different jails and different levels of jails. Some are 23 hour lock down people. That means you only leave your cell 1 hour a day for some excercise and your meals are slid into the cell for you.

If that is luxury to you, well you grew up poorer than I did.

Generally prison rights people will show you a montage of the worst prisons, and the Big Stick Justice people will show you a montage of the best perks.

This is just good politics. I hope all of you are at least educated enough by now to know that what people say is rarely the whole truth?

Or are some of you still so naive you believe government press releases as gospel?

[Timber]

The prisons aren't luxurious enough. Prisoners should have more rights, therefore WE can commit more crimes and get pampered in the prisons.

[Blue Violet]

Ok, I too know people who have been in jail AND prison. I did community service (voluntary I assure you!)in one teaching inmates to read. It is NOT comfortable. It is NOT nice, It is NOT friendly, It is NOT enjoyable.

One lady I was teaching had to wait THREE days to get a SINGLE aspirin for her MIGRAIN. For those of you whoo have suffered a migrain you know what I mean I say I'd rather be dead than have one for three days.

Another was having severe stomach pains and couldn't get out of bed for a week. They just gave her alaxitive about a week later. Three months after she got out the same thing happend and it turned out to be an ovarian cyst rupture.



The food, not decent at all. The reason why candy bars and cokes and chips and stuff are for SALE ( the family of the inmate puts money in an account for them) is because the meals they are served are slightly less then minimal. A grown man could not honestly live on the three SMALL meals they are provided. They bargain with their people. One of the guys I taught had moremoney in his account and pretty much ate one meal a day from jail and had snack the other two because the food actually made him sick. So he auctioned off his food to other inmates who did not have money in their account and were really hungry. This was not a bad jail either. it was a fairly decent county jail as far as jails go.

And the guards. Ever met one. They are one step away from being inmates. They are not educated hardly at all (hello they are prison guards-you don't even need a highschool diploma to be one and they GIVE YOU A GUN) These guards are nasty, about as uneducated as the inmated from how I hear them talk, sadistic (whi says i want to be a prison guard when I grow up?) Most of the guards i encountered were so nasty-and i was there to help! Most were military basic training failures/ drop outs or people who tried to get into the police acadamy and were rejected. ANYONE can get a job as a prison guard. It pays less than a teacher, less than a policeman. Anyone heard of "power tripping?"

The reason Many (not all) are in jail is because they can;t read, a life of crime is what they LEARNED from there parents and they honestly didn;t know much better.

Now they do need to pay their time. Agreed. but it is so much cheaper to educate than incarcerate. if they are not educated they will be a burden on society forever. The majority of people incarcerated (FACT-not a made up statistic) have below a 4th grade reading level. Crime is all they are qualified to do. Teach them to read and you solve half (not all) your problem.

What they really ought to do is make all people on welfare get a shot of depo prevera before they can have their monthly check. that would eliminate a lot of the slime out there.

Remember that drinking a beer was once a jailable offense in our country. you can't jusdge everyone by the same standards. A person in jail for getting in a bar fight doesn;t exactly desearve the same punishment as a serial killer.

Also, the reason why people in jail don't revolt is because they do have something to do. You have to keep people busy in order to keep them behaved.

And they do work. That food ain;t catered that's for sure. they clean it, fix all the meals, do all the landscape, wash all the clothes, work in the library, go out on work detail picking up garbage etc. They do not lounge around in the sun all day playing vollyball. And as far as the mens jails go-try not being able to sleep at night because people want to kick your ass. You think racism is bad in the real world? Try going to jail. Blacks HATE whites and the whites gotta stick together to stay alive and vice versa.

Yes they belong there. But you have to make it livable. NOT enjoyable, but livable.

And if you are in JAIL (not prison) the cost of your meals is added on each day to your court fees and fines so when you get out jail gives you a bill and you have to pay it on time or you go back to jail as a violation of probation.

Now the child molesters and stuff like they-rest assured, jail has it's own form of justice if you know what I mean. Jeffrey Dahmer didn;t last long. The inmates killed him.

[KSigkid]

I've talked to a great deal of former prisoners over the years, as I've been unfortunate enough to have known people pretty well who ended up there.

It isn't a picnic - it isn't luxury, it isn't a walk in the park, at least not for those I've had contact with.

I don't think that prisoners are getting off easy; but that's just me.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by Blue Violet
And the guards. Ever met one. They are one step away from being inmates. They are not educated hardly at all (sic) (hello they are prison guards-you don't even need a highschool diploma to be one and they GIVE YOU A GUN)

Are you sure about the gun thing? When I tutored prisoners at Western Penitentiary back in college, the guards didn't carry guns because of the chance of a massacre if an inmate got hold of it.

[XOMichelle]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
I think prisoners are entitled to the bare minimum: meals, a comfortable place to sleep, health care, rehabilitation. I think they should have the opportunity to earn their GED, but not to take college classes. Prison is not supposed to be enjoyable.

Funny you say that they should be entitled to health care when no one in the US has that as a right. We are so backwards!!!

For the record: Prison is not enjoyable for anyone. Things like college classes, books and gyms are provided so the people there can build a future for themselves when they get out. We want to make people who commit crimes not commit them in the future, right? Treating them like shit and not giving them any rights is not the way to do that.
-M

ps- Amen Blue Violet!
edited to add... all the "luxries" we hear of are not normal at all. The guy who said prision was better than the outside is probably 200% mentally ill.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by XOMichelle
Funny you say that they should be entitled to health care when no one in the US has that as a right. We are so backwards!!!

Well, you really have to give them healthcare. To do otherwise could be construed as "cruel and unusual punishment"

Don't get me started on the health care crisis! lol

[damasa]

Originally posted by Blue Violet


The reason Many (not all) are in jail is because they can;t read, a life of crime is what they LEARNED from there parents and they honestly didn;t know much better.

Did you really just say this? That the reason that may but not all are in jail is because they can't read? And that they learned a life of crime from their parents? OMG I have seen it all.

That has got to be one of the, you know I won't even say it, but what a generalization.

[Honeykiss1974]

True dat on teh health care issue (and that is from someone who works within the financial aspect of healthcare).

My post was just to point out the irony of it all. How we as a country need to decide if prision is going to be a place of rehabilitation or just a place to keep criminals way from society in general.

I also wanted to ^5 the person that posted about any of us becoming a prisoner. It can happen. All it takes is something like a someone unexpectedly darting out in traffic and before you can react it, you hit him/her....now you are on trial for murder facing prison. Yes, you...with your clean record and all. Granted, it was a total accident and you did nothing wrong, but there you in an orange jumpsuit are standing in a court of law.

[Munchkin03]

Dude, you rock my world. The stuff you say makes mad sense. It's very easy to be tough on crime when no one you know has ever gone to jail, and you're sitting pretty because even if you do get arrested for a crime you commit, chances are your race/class/family connections (pick one) are going to prevent you from doing hard time.

Prison is not a pretty thing. Those horror stories you hear of cable TV and boob jobs? Those (and someone with more legal experience have more insight) are the rare rare exception, not the rule. For all we know, the prisoner in question was diagnosed with gender dysphoria before he went into prison--and that the sex change was simply part of the treatment (it is, you know).

Since when do most criminals learn a life of crime from their parents? Since when are they illiterate? Also, for being a prison guard, you must have AT LEAST a high school diploma or its equivalent. Some even have certificates in criminology. See what falsehoods circulate about the penal system?

To prevent recidivism (which the American prison system doesn't really do), prison must be a place of rehabilitation. And, to rehabilitate prisoners to become productive members of society, there are some things we have to offer, such as a high school diploma and vocational education.

And to the person who suggested a shot o' Depo for welfare recipients? Please don't make me go on about forced sterilization for poor women...a not so sunny side of American women's history...just because someone is born to a parent in poverty doesn't make them "slime".

[damasa]

Originally posted by James
I hope all of you are at least educated enough by now to know that what people say is rarely the whole truth?

Ah and how we can ever relate this to an internet chat site, hrm, let's see, GREEKCHAT maybe?!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by texas*princess
The 'special priviliages discussed on the show varied from small things like candy bars, sodas, and tv watching time to bigger things like being able to earn college credits, to even bigger things.

One example of the "bigger things" that Mr. Walsh talked about was an example of a man in the state of Illinois who murdered 7 nurses. While he was in prison, he decided he wanted a sex change, and the state of Illinois paid for his breast implants.

The same man also made the comment that his life in prison was way better than it was on the 'outside'.

For me personally, I could see both sides - on one hand, you have a human being in prison, so it's only right to treat them like a human being so I wouldn't think small things would hurt.. but on the other hand, some of these inmates are recieving much bigger things like college education for free while we have to pay for ours.

I guess there's two sides to every story. But I do really feel bad for the families of the victims that were on the show. I normally don't watch these types of shows, but since it was on and I had nothing better to do I figured why not

You're talking about Richard Speck who murdered eight young student nurses in Chicago. Speck died in prison in the 1990's from a heart attack. After his death, videotapes were found of him using drugs, showing off his breasts, and having sex. He said of his time in Statesville Prison, "If they knew how much fun I was having in here, they would turn me loose." There was a national call for prison reform at the time.

[Lady Pi Phi]

I agree that when one has been convicted of a crime and is sentenced, they have not lost their humanity. Their basic needs must definitly be met. Food, clothing, proper healthcare, whether it be physical or mental.
I feel that those that have smaller sentences should be rehabilitated. I think they should have the opportunity to earn their GED if they need to. However, they should not be able to get a college education on the backs of the tax payers. If they want to go to college after they are released they should work hard and apply like everyone else. I feel they should work while in prison. They should have the opportunity to gain skills that will help them once they are released.
Now for those that are serving life sentences should not have those same kind of privileges. I'm sorry, but if you're not EVER getting out, you don't need a college education. If you really want it, you can pay for it yourself! You don't have any money?! We'll find you a job you can do in prison and you can save up to pay tuition.
The fact of the matter is, prision or jail should never be better than the life you had on the outside. Once released, I would like to hear them say that prison was hell, and that they never want to go back. I don't ever want to hear any prisioner, whether it's 1 or 100 say that they had a better life in prison than they did on the outside.