The US Armed Forces (Haliburton Workers (civillians)): Is it a viable option?

[Serenity]

My cousin (Army) is in Kuwait. My LSs husband (Marine) hasn't been sent overseas yet but he's stationed away from home here in the states waiting for orders.

So many others, but too to even think anymore about it tonight...

[straightBOS]

The money and benefits used to be better I believe. My dad came to this country and joined the Navy in his early 20s, and retired after 20 yrs to a great pension.

But, he was QUICK to talk my cousin out of joining. For some, especially those who may not be able -- or willing to go to college right out of high school, the Armed Forces might be a better alternative for them. Even w/o 9/11 Sevice will always be a great risk for young people. I think that some, if not all, of the people killed in the Cole bombing were quite young.

Seems like everyone in VA has been shipped out, though. Luckily a friend of mine (a Naval aviator) had just returned from overseas and is on shore duty, so he will not be going anywhere. (Hopefully)

Let's also not forget about our Reserves. They are over there in large numbers. Actually, I had thought about joining the Reserves a few years ago... I might still do it.

[RedefinedDiva]

Originally posted by AKA2D '91
Anyway, is signing up for the military a viable option for youngsters? Any thoughts?

My cousin left for basic training today. She graduated from high school last May and is just getting around to going. I am scared that she will get sent out as soon as she finishes basic. My wanna-be fiance (a friend that SWEARS we will marry even though we have never dated) is on stand-by in Florida. I have a buddy that was stationed in Germany, but I haven't talked to him in about two years. I don't know if he's still there or not. I just don't want to see his name rolling at the bottom of the TV screen. I wish that there was a way that I could locate people in the military.... Anybody got a hook-up?

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by straightBOS
The money and benefits used to be better I believe. My dad came to this country and joined the Navy in his early 20s, and retired after 20 yrs to a great pension.

But, he was QUICK to talk my cousin out of joining. For some, especially those who may not be able -- or willing to go to college right out of high school, the Armed Forces might be a better alternative for them. Even w/o 9/11 Sevice will always be a great risk for young people. I think that some, if not all, of the people killed in the Cole bombing were quite young.

Seems like everyone in VA has been shipped out, though. Luckily a friend of mine (a Naval aviator) had just returned from overseas and is on shore duty, so he will not be going anywhere. (Hopefully)

Let's also not forget about our Reserves. They are over there in large numbers. Actually, I had thought about joining the Reserves a few years ago... I might still do it.

I would agree with you about the benefits being better back in the days. My dad, as I mentioned before, enlisted in 1943. He retired in 1964 (my birth year) and had a solid pension that he combined with his income from the Postal Service. My mom outearned him, but that's because she has a bachelor's and was a supervisor at the hospital.
Sorry for the digression.

[GroovePhi62]

When I was 17 and a Senior in HS we had the armed service recruiters at the schools all of the time trying their best to get us to enlist the day after graduation. Fortunately I had the ways and means to attend college through an academic and a track scholarship. But for alot of my brothers and sisters they weren't so lucky. I came from a neighborhood where either you were an athlete or an soldier after H.S. and coming from a military family they weren't having the latter. My 3 Uncle's served in Vietnam and were all awarded prurple hearts. They continously informed me growing up that the military was no place for a black man and that I'd better go to college and make something of myself or if I did go into the military they would make sure I went in and went directly to OCS so I wouldn't be anyone's grunt for a long period of time. I had an ex-coworker whom just left to go to the service not for the love for his country, not for the tuition reimbursement, but to get rid rid of his $120,000 in Student loans he racked up. Homeboy graduated from Law school and had to do what he had to do. Last I heard he was possibly in South Korea on some kind of detail...For him it was a viable option at the time because it was peacetime but now I seriously think, like many of the GI's, I know they are counting the days when they can get out. Don't get me wrong, I back our soldiers 100% and I pray for the Brothers of GPHIG(whatup fayetteville) and SPHIS to come home safely...but as a people I hope we can find alternate means for our future generations to fund the collegiate educations besides enrolling in the military. If anyone is considering please reference someone whom was either a recruiter or a career serviceman whom knwe the in and outs of the military then make a thorough decision,. and money should not be deciding factor.

I hope this Occupation is over soon...in Gods name..

[CodeBlue_R3]

Okay, here's my say.

I love my military forces. I grew up in a military town and WAS supposed to marry an 101st soldier. But we recently parted . However, I am still in full support of my military services. I say-MAKE US PROUD SOLDIERS.

Also for those of you who don't know yellow ribbons mean they shall come home soon. Those of you with sons in the miltary there are flags (parents of sons in war symbol with a star for each son involved) available to hang outside your home this was started during the world war. If you have an older car-turn your headlights on as a sign of support. And burning candles and blinking flashlights from your windows on Thursday.

[1savvydiva]

Ya'll I had to bring this back up, I have a coupla questions!

I am in Nursing School, and my career goal is to become a Nurse Anesthetist. Recently, one of my friends and I were speaking about my career plans. She is in the Reserves, and she went in as an officer being that she has a degree. She had a recruiter call me Friday, and she told me that if I enlist as a Reservist upon graduation, I could enter the reserves as a Captain, and they would help me get my higher specialization to include my anesthesiology education. They not only would it be almost a given that I am accepted into the Anesthesiology program, they would pay for my tuition and reimburse for books, etc.

Now hopefully, by the time I graduate next year, this war will be resolved, and I wouldn't have to worry about 'activating' at least right now, but what do ya'll think about this opportunity? Do you know anyone who has done this?

[ClassyLady]

I think the question that you really have to ask yourself is would you ever be willing to serve if you were called to active duty. If the answer is no, then I don't think that this would be a viable option for you. I know that I would never, under any circumstances, be able to fight and serve this country, so I would not even consider the Armed Forces an option for me.

On the other hand, if you do not have any qualms about serving in the Armed Forces, then maybe this is something that you should look into a little futher. Talk to everyone you can who may have some useful knowledge, especially those who did enlist in order to pursue a degree. Then, make the decision that you think is best for.

I just hope that you really, really research this before you sign up for it. I know too many people who joined the Air Force, or the Reserves, or any other branch of the military for the sole purposes of getting their degrees. Many of them are extremely unhappy with their decision. Nothing is for nothing. If Uncle Sam is willing to pay over $50,000 to put you through school, please believe that he is getting more than his money's worth back from you.

[1savvydiva]

Originally posted by ClassyLady
If Uncle Sam is willing to pay over $50,000 to put you through school, please believe that he is getting more than his money's worth back from you.

So true! I was speaking with one of my friends whose boyfriend was deployed this past week. She said that he is in a reserve unit (of somewhat last possible to go) and he enlisted in order to furthur his education as well. Although he won't be directly fighting this war, he is having to go to Iraq. His is being compensated well, but the fact still remains is that he is/was an ACCOUNTING major who is being deployed overseas for the war! Think about if me, a nurse enlisted, I probably would be one of the first ones to go! I don't know, even though I was thinking that by that time, maybe the war would be resolved, I guess you never know when something is just gonna pop off.

I don't think that people who enlisted 3 years ago would have thought that by the end of their four years, they would be activated either. She said that one of his frat brothers who is serving with him (whose four years would be up in like 2 months), they told him that 'you can forget that'! I guess in wartime, if you are close to your time limit, or JUST finished your service time, if war ensues, they have the right to call you back I don't know, I might just need to bust my booty and try to get my hospital to pay for my schooling!

[Honeykiss1974]

Long read, but I thought it was interesting to see what various people though.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Should the Draft Be Reinstated?

With U.S. forces stretched thin and many reservists on full-time duty, some urge a draft for reasons of fairness and practicality. Opponents say it's unnecessary and dangerous

Posted Sunday, December 21, 2003; 7:45 a.m. EST

CHARLES RANGEL
Democratic Congressman from New York and Korean War vet

Staying the course in Iraq means increasing our troop strength, and, not surprisingly, recruitment and re-enlistment levels are down. But proposed enlistment bonuses and other economic incentives will not make the military any more attractive to upper-middle-class young people. Increasingly we will be a nation in which the poor fight our wars while the affluent stay home.

To correct the disparity among those who serve, South Carolina Senator Fritz Hollings and I have proposed a new draft. (Sidenote...does anyone know the current status of this proposal? With the support for our military being as high as it is (i.e. capturing Saddam, The American Soldier being Time's person of the Year), I wouldn't be surprised if this momentum is used to push this through) All men and women ages 18 to 26 would be eligible for induction once they have completed high school. Those not needed in the military would perform civilian service. Enacting our plan would democratize our armed forces and return to the "citizen soldier" ideal that has served our nation so well.

As a veteran, I strongly believe that fighting for our country must be fairly shared by all racial and economic groups. Nobody wants to go to war, but the burden of service cannot fall only on volunteers who, no matter how patriotic, are attracted to the military for financial reasons. We cannot continue to pretend it is fair that one segment of society makes all the sacrifices.

DOUG BANDOW
Former special assistant to President Reagan, now a senior fellow at the Cato Institute
America deploys the most powerful military on earth because its soldiers freely choose to serve. Today's military is picky. In 2003 more than 9 of 10 enlistees had a high school diploma. The military takes virtually no one who doesn't score in the top three of five categories of the Armed Forces Qualification Test. Equally important, the all-volunteer force (avf) is staffed by soldiers who want to be there. Draft advocates want "citizen soldiers." But 4 million young people turn 18 every year, while the military inducted 185,000 recruits in 2003. A system that took just 5% of those eligible would be highly arbitrary.

The worst lie told by conscription advocates about the avf is that it is an underclass military. Overrepresentation of blacks is modest; Hispanics are actually underrepresented. While there may be few sons and daughters of Wall Street in uniform, the military is an overwhelmingly middle-class force. The most obvious reason to maintain the avf is practical: it's the best way to raise the world's finest military. What sets American society apart from totalitarian hellholes like Saddam Hussein's Iraq is its dedication to individual liberty. Conscription sacrifices the very values we are supposed to be defending.

CHARLES MOSKOS
Professor of sociology at Northwestern University and a former draftee
Our country is facing new kinds of threats and needs a new kind of draft. Even before the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, our military was severely overstretched in fulfilling its missions. But more important, we have done nothing serious about homeland defense in the war against terrorism. We need guards for our nuclear power plants, dams and public facilities. We have done little to create the necessary border patrollers, customs agents and cargo-ship inspectors. Short-term draftees, under professional supervision, could perform these duties admirably. It takes less than four months to train a military police officer—precisely the kind of role most needed in peacekeeping missions and guard duties. This would free up professional soldiers, and it would stop the unprecedented activation of reservists. Their multiple tours have led to demoralization and impending recruitment shortfalls.

We must institute a three-tiered draft system in America, with 15-to-24-month tours of duty for citizens ages 18 to 26. In the new-style draft, conscripts could serve in the military, in homeland security or in a civilian-service program like AmeriCorps—and there is no reason women could not be drafted for the latter categories.

ROBERT SCALES JR.
Retired general, former commandant of the Army War College and historian
A return to the draft is a very bad idea whose time passed with the world wars, Korea and Vietnam. These wars were tragically wasteful because in large measure they were fought with drafted soldiers.

Drafted soldiers are far more likely to die in combat than long-service professionals. Military leaders know from painful experience that it takes years to produce a fully competent combat soldier. They also know that older soldiers live longer in combat. Drafting teenagers and committing them to combat within only a year of enlistment will create an Army of amateurs. Our Army in particular has a sad history of committing to battle men who are too young and inexperienced to have much hope of surviving against a hardened and skillful enemy.

Drafted units can be kept together for only a short time and invariably march to war as random collections of strangers. Our soldiers performed so superbly in Iraq because they were seasoned. Good soldiers, like good wine, can be produced only with careful cultivation and patient aging. Unfortunately, amateur armies learn to fight only by fighting. Inevitably, the cost of that education is too horrific for the American people to bear.

JAMES INHOFE
Republican Senator from Oklahoma
I think I'm the only member of the Senate Armed Services Committee who would reinstate the draft. There are huge social benefits that come from it. I can assure you I would not be in the U.S. Senate today if I had not gone through the draft. When I look at the problems of some of our kids in America nowadays and then I go visit the troops, I see what a great benefit it is to give people the opportunity to serve their country.

I was drafted into the Army in January 1957 and served two years as an enlisted man. I gained a new outlook on life through the rigors of basic training. The military can have a more intense influence on soldiers when they are drafted and have no choice. I developed a sense of patriotism through the experience of serving my country. I'm not on a crusade, but I think today's youth could use more of that type of discipline.

LOUIS CALDERA
Former Secretary of the Army, 1998-2001, now president of the University of New Mexico
Talk about reinstating the draft is more about nostalgia for a time when military service was perceived to be a near universal and often beneficial rite of passage for young men in our country than it is about keeping our military at full strength. Given the success of the all-volunteer force in manning today's smaller and more highly skilled military, a return to a large, general draft is neither necessary nor desirable for maintaining U.S. military effectiveness.

Worries about whether the military can attract enough recruits are unfounded. Unless the U.S. is going to prohibit anyone from volunteering or being recruited and only swear in draftees, the number of slots that would need to be filled by a draft would be very small indeed. How fair would any draft be that asked only a few thousand high school graduates out of the millions of eligible men and women to serve each year? Attempts to reinstate the draft could tear the nation apart for zero gain—and possibly a net degradation in military effectiveness.

Instead of honoring the diverse Americans serving in the ranks today, draft supporters devalue their patriotism and commitment. They fail to acknowledge that today's all-volunteer military recruits only motivated, trainable people who, by definition, have other options but who choose to stay in the military because they find satisfaction in serving their country. What draft supporters should be asking is, How can we challenge every young American to ask "Whose responsibility is it to serve if not mine?"

~~~~~

Thoughts, comments, opinions.....

[Exquisite5]

My boyfriend is a Surface Warfare Officer in the U.S. Navy and my line sister is about to join the Air Force as an engineer. She will be an officer after completing the officer training program for the air force since she did not go to an Academy and was not enrolled in a ROTC program in undergrad (like my boyfriend).

I think the military, though it can be dangerous and VERY time consuming (its New Years day and my boyfriend is at work on his ship where he must spend the night once a week) has a lot to offer to young peope, however, whats important is what each particular young person wants to do.

The benefits are very good and whether or not young people should join really just depends on the desires and mentality of that young person. For instance, my boyfriend has a friend who was in medical school on an Army scholarship (they were in the Corps together in undegrad) and after graduating from med school was obligated to go into the army for, I believe, 8 years (army paid for undergrad and med school). Well, this friend was only in med school because his parents said he should go because he was smart, but he really wanted to be in the Army, so he left med school after the first year where he was highly ranked to go straight to the Army. ITS WHAT HE WANTED TO DO.

His decision is making him happy, as my boyfriend's decision to be commissioned as an officer in the Navy makes him happy.

Also, I wanted to add that rich people do join the military, especially those that aspire to political careers. However, they generally attend either of the Academies (Westpoint, Naval, Air Force), get their free Ivy-quality education and then serve their required four years. They may or may not stay in, but please beleive that the U.S. Secretaries of the armed forces and other high ranking cabinet and appointed positions REQUIRE military service.

However, I must also say my boyfriend and I want to get married, but it was very hard for me to accept one day being a miliarty wife. I am in law school and don't see myself moving every 2-3 years AND establishing a career. Well, we've talked and we've worked out a plan for US. It will require sacrifice and adjustment, but we can make it work: the marriage between a Naval Officer and a determined, career-minded, soon-to-be successful attorney.

[Love_Spell_6]

I know I'll likely get slammed for my comments (like that's something new ) But I have a problem with folks that enlist in the military, gain all the benefits, then complain when they are called to go to war. I mean if you don't want to go to war, don't join the military! It is kinda a part of the job description. You can't get something in this world for nothing... I am VERY supportive of the United States military...whether I agree with everything this country does or not....but it just really makes my skin crawl when people are crying about the troops this and the troops that.....

Its simple...if You don't like what this country does...the wars we fight and our leadership...you really shouldn't be signing up to lay your life on the line for the good ol' US...

Thats why I am not in the military and I pay my student loans faithfully...yea that $50,000 would have been great...but I ain goin to war

[AXOVolley]

My boyfriend is in the Marine Corp and is currently deployed to Afghanistan. His unit is part of a six month rotation there. He has been gone for about 2 months now. In the 3 years that we have been together this is the first time we have been apart for more than about a month. It was really hard for me to deal with at first, but everyday things get a little easier. I have been lucky in that where they are currently located he has phone access, so I am able to talk to him about once a week. The mail system is slow, but I get letters from him every couple of weeks. I guess the hardest thing is that I feel like he is missing out on a lot going on back at home. He shipped out on Valentine's day, he'll be away for our anniversary, my birthday, and my college graduation. I'm sure I'll miss him a little bit more on those special occasions.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6

Thats why I am not in the military and I pay my student loans faithfully...yea that $50,000 would have been great...but I ain goin to war

You and me both.

I don't understand that either though. People who enlist should ALWAYS keep in mind that although things may be peaceful at the moment of enlistment, there is ALWAYS a possibility that a war may happen.

AXOVolley,
My prayers are with you and your boyfriend. I know it must be hard to not only be apart from him, but to know that his life is on the line every moment probably makes it worse (as opposed to him just being away on vacation or something like that). May God bless the both of you.

[ambición6]

My line sister's husband (who btw is also pledging our fraternity as we speak) was about to be done with his duty. he's in the marine reserves and was going to finish this summer. but now, they are sending him off for 8 months to iraq in august and what sucks even more is that my line sister is pregnant and due in july. at least he'll see the baby born.