Ritual and Pin collectors

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by wptw

Anyway, I fear the day is soon coming when all of our rituals will be open for examination. There has been and is still too much carelessness, too much malice against greeks, too much thirst for exposé among the general public, and too little value placed on honoring the vows GLO members make in their lives. It is best to start working your mindset around to that eventuality, and to start thinking how to evolve beyond it. Because it's coming.

wptw

I think the "thirst for expose (sorry not looking for that special accent) among the general public" has a lot to do with the fact that we ARE so secretive. When we all walk around going, "OMG no I can't tell you anything about my ritual because it's sacred and special and TOP SECRET INFO", people start imagining that it involves goat's blood and swallowing knives. And I certainly hope that no one actually DOES have a ritual like that!

I liked how someone else on GreekChat described their ritual, to a family member, as a wedding. Symbolic, special, and nice. If more people knew that we weren't secretly Satanic cult members doing all kinds of crazy things in KKK outfits, they might not want to know so badly.

On another note, I don't think that what wptw does is so horrible...
Wptw, do you share your findings with others or is it mainly for your own interest?

[GeekyPenguin]

Wptw, I'm just curious, and if you don't want to tell you don't have to, but how do you acquire these rituals?

I find the whole study of rituals fascinating, and I agree with what sugar and spice says. Whenever I walk home along row I look at crests and I wonder what it symbolizes, or I try and guess if similar words mean similar things...it's interesting.

As for our ritual becoming public, I'd like to keep it secret, but I'm not worried. Delta Upsilon has always been public and they seem to be thriving.

[wptw]

CarolinaCutie, here you go… é é …you can keep one and give the other to a friend.

I tend to agree with you. I’ve often said that secrecy purely for the sake of secrecy, or mystery purely for the sake of mystery, is vain and pointless. I do think it’s important to maintain our secrecy. Though non-greeks resent us for it, the experience of this secret bond is indeed one of the things that hold us tightly together. But we shouldn’t wield that secrecy or try to lord it over people, as I have seen a lot of particularly arrogant (or insecure, probably) GLO members do. That just pisses people off. That’s the breeding ground for a lot of the idiot secret-seeking trolls we deal with around here on a regular basis.

There are more graceful ways to deal with secrecy and explain ritual. The wedding analogy is one example. A Catholic mass would be another. I always say something simple like “GLO members share a detailed ritual that they keep secret, but they are expected to exemplify the teachings of those rituals in their everyday lives”. That’s why one of my favorite open mottoes is Alpha Sigma Phi’s: The cause is hidden, but the results are well known.

But you have to admit – we DO do some weird stuff in outfits not unlike KKK robes!

To answer your question, I don’t share specific ritual info with anyone except other researchers who I know to be trustworthy and who already have a great deal of ritual info of their own. This is really a very small handful of people, in case GLOdefender had you thinking it’s a mass conspiracy involving thousands. There are perhaps 10 serious researchers “out there”. Maybe another 10 who sort of dabble in it from time to time, though not seriously.

But I do talk a lot about ritual in general with people. A lot of people want to know if their ritual is similar to XYZ because they were founded by a member of XYZ, or they were founded on the same campus, etc. And I can easily answer their questions by saying, for example, the structure of the ceremony is similar, or the motto is similar, etc. Basically the same stuff you see me discussing on this and other public forums. For example, I can answer GeekyPenguin’s question by saying that, yes, in many cases a given greek letter means the same thing when used in several different groups’ names or mottoes. Same for symbols. And some are more common than others.

My rule of thumb with the “generally interested” is never to reveal any detail beyond what I would reveal of my own ritual. That seems to walk the fine line effectively.

GeekyPenguin, I’ll respectfully decline to answer your question since I don’t want to educate the general public on how to acquire rituals. You can contact me privately if you like (though I probably still won’t tell you ).

wptw

[HotDamnImAPhiMu]

You know what this seems like to me? Being naked.

I would never, ever walk around naked in public. But to let my doctor see me naked, that's OK. I think the dividing line is professionalism, and respect. Doctors see people naked for a living, so they're not getting a thrill out of it. And they, through years and years of study, have aquired a serious respect for the human body.

wptw (and his friends) have that professionalism in the way they acquire their knowledge. And they have respect in the way they choose to share it.

Meaning, I'm OK with a few people knowing our secrets -- if it's for scholarly purposes, and they respect our desire to keep things secret. It's a world away from telling your best friend, cousin, and boyfriend all about your ritual.

[Kevin]

I would almost favor what we (Sigma Nu) used to do in order to protect the Ritual. When a new chapter was founded, copies would be hand delivered. The ritual was then to be memorized and the papers destroyed.

At some point we started using books though.

[AlphaSigOU]

Like wptw, I also am a student of ritual and ceremony, and I also treat the rituals and secret work of other fraternities and sororities with the same respect as I would my own.

I am not as active in research as wptw is, but it's very interesting to know that out of the many rituals I've studied, the Masonic virtues of faith, hope and charity, as well as fraternal love for each other are centerpieces in the teachings and ceremonies of Greek-letter organizations, even though they may arrive at it in different ways through different interpretations.

We are NOT in the business of swaggering all over campus or boasting at the local bar, "hey, everybody... I know XYZ fraternity's secrets!" or "let's crash ABC sorority's initiation at a nearby college, 'cause I know their method of recognition!"

To become a serious student of ritual and ceremony is not easy, and takes a high degree of trust, as wptw already mentioned in his post. How these rituals are obtained are considered part of the 'intelligence sources and methods' and are carefully guarded against unauthorized disclosure. We've been burned before by people who at first appear sincere, whose true motives are to expose and denouce the fraternity and sorority system as evil, satanic and un-Christian.

I am also a Mason, and also a dedicated ritualist in my local lodge. Every year I take an examination on how proficient I am in the ritual of the three Masonic degrees, so that I can become certified in teaching the ritual work to newer members. It's not easy, since the ritual work is transmitted orally and very little of the work appears in print. The Texas Masonic ritual is probably unique in that it has changed very little in over 150 years, considering it has never been officially committed to writing and passed down from Brother to Brother from 'the instructive mouth to the attentive ear' and the secrets of the fraternity retained in 'the repository of sacred breasts'.

While a dedicated researcher might be able to find an expose on Masonic ritual and ceremonies on the Web or in your local library, almost all of the grand lodges in the United States have different interpretations of ritual. Simply stated, we get to the same point, but take a different road to get there. For a brief time, I lived in Oklahoma, and was active in the local Masonic lodge there. I had to learn the ritual as exemplified in Oklahoma, and that was difficult enough to keep straight after learning the Texas work. Eventually my proficiency improved until I was able to be examined in the Oklahoma work, and I passed it successfully. Some Masonic grand lodges have it a little easier by issuing ciphers of the work to their members, but Texas and Oklahoma are but two of the twenty-five Grand Lodges that do not have a printed ritual or cipher.

That's my take on the whole situation... your mileage may vary.

[wptw]

Originally posted by HotDamnImAPhiMu
You know what this seems like to me? Being naked. I would never, ever walk around naked in public. But to let my doctor see me naked, that's OK.

wptw
"the doctor is IN"

[The1calledTKE]

The way I see it is who cares. Just don't be the person to give out your org's secrets. People are going to find them out if they want to try hard enough. The less people that talk about them the harder it will be for them to collect. Even if people were trying to find out secrets to crash another org's meetings, there are ways to prevent that. For example, my chapter would never let a person into a meeting until we checked them out with IHQ first. We check their id's, get all personal info, including intiation date, and have IHQ compare it to see if they truely are a brother. I don't care if they know the ritual forwards and backwards, if IHQ can't confirm it then they are not getting in my chapter meeting. Just because a few non members might know my ritual doesn't change the meaning of it any less to me. I have no doubt there probably are a couple ritual books out there floating around. I have even seen a TKE one up on ebay at one time. All I can hope is that the true secrets parts that are left blank in the book were not filled in by a careless brother.

[AlphaSigOU]

I can relate to that... I remember one time back in my days as a newly-minted alumni hanging out at another chapter of my fraternity. At first, there were a few brothers in the chapter that were initially suspicious until my bona fides were verified with National Headquarters and I gave them the proper methods of recognition.

The same way goes with visiting a Masonic lodge in another state or country. Not only do you need to be proficient in the modes of recognition, but you must exhibit proof that you are a member in good standing in a lodge that is recognized by the Grand Lodge where you're visiting. Most Masonic lodges have a book listing all lodges in a particular jurisdiction, to verify that such lodge exists and is recognized. Still, it is the ultimate prerogative of the Worshipful Master of the lodge to ultimately allow or deny entry to a visiting brother, or to preserve the peace and harmony in the lodge room he is entrusted to keep.

[Greekgrrl]

This is an interesting subject nicely wrested away from a board troll

Personally, I wish that every Greek group would allow its secrets out. I love to study ritual and I'm a die hard comparativist -- it's hard to see all these similarities and not know if they're just incidental. (Which some of them must be.)

Moreover, the secret motto and meanings and symbolism of my organization are amazing and something that I'm so proud of I'd like to shout them to the hills -- "look! we stand for this!" I work my behind off to try to exemplify those attributes and it would be easier, for instance, if I were to be able to tell my mother, who unconsciously exemplifies those same attributes (but grew up in the anti-Greek 70s and is suspicious at best of my sorority), that she'd make a perfect sister.

BUT I took an oath -- a very serious oath to hold the trust of my founders and my sisters close to my heart. As much as I am tempted and as much as I may disagree with the practice, I'm responsible for my own actions and following up on my own promises -- which I do.

I wish that our inter/national organizations would view the doctor metaphor as positively as many of us do -- and those of us who are willing to put in the work and the effort and the respect for the rituals would be rewarded with a glimpse into another organization.

I like the wedding analogy as well -- even if you know the vows taken, even if you know where the couple lives and know what they wore and who they are, you'll never understand that marriage, because you're not living it.

Cheers to wptw and those who treat our rituals with respect they deserve.

But enough of my babbling. I think there's a point in here somewhere. Good luck finding it.

Greekgrrl.

[FuzzieAlum]

I think you make sense. To me, it's not any inherent secrecy in the ritual - it's respecting other GLOs and my own oath to Alpha Xi Delta.

I'm not even sure secrecy is a necessary feature of a GLO, but since I've agreed to follow by my organization's rules, I respect that oath and in turn treat other GLO's wishes with the same respect. If Beta doesn't care who collects their pins, I can't fault a collector who wants them, just like I wouldn't see a problem in someone writing a thesis on DU's ritual.

As long as we wish secrecy, the problem I see with such collections isn't someone like wptw doing research, even if it only benefits himself. It's that some nutcase will convince other researchers he's serious, and then blow the lid off the secrets for everyone. I think that's what makes me nervous. If the world ever knows the contents of AXD's rituals, I want it to us who tells them, not someone on a information-wants-to-be-free spree.

[Tom Earp]

As long as the world spins, the sun comes up and goes down, there will always be someone who will try to find a secret!!


I NEVER WANT MY RITUAL OPEN TO THE PUBLIC!

Is that plain and simple enuff? It is something that sets each and everyone of us apart!

Yes because of the beginings of secret organizations ( Masonic ) for one, will be similar in some ways.

But everytime I see a New Young associatiate go through, I swear an oth and promise that I will never reveal any Secrets of LXA. I never have and never will!

This is what keeps Us different from Clubs and Gangs!

The Human Mind is always looking for the hidden and will continue to do so! I for one will not ever help them concerning my Ritual whch is sacred to me and my Brothers!

If you think I am wrong, I am sorry for you not me!

[greeklawgirl]

Tom, I think you misunderstand. I don't believe anyone here is encouraging members to go around revealing their secrets or rituals. That goes against all the vows that we have taken, and against the very idea of brother/sisterhood!

As long as a ritual researcher treats my ritual with the respect and discretion that it deserves, I don't have a problem with him studying it. I'm not at all worried about the ritual researchers--its the fanatic kooks out to bring down Greek life that we need to watch out for.


Edited for spelling

[Kevin]

What's the difference really? A secret is a secret. An oath is an oath. If you swear to keep something secret, do it. You do not deserve to be a part of your organization if you betray it in such a way as to reveal its secrets.

[sugar and spice]

I don't think anybody is planning on telling any secrets about their sorority or fraternity. I know I wouldn't tell them to anyone, ritual researcher or not. The point is that they can probably find out on their own, and in that case there's nothing I can do about it. And if somebody is going to know my secrets, I would rather it be a ritual researcher than somebody who's going to run around screaming all the secrets to everyone.