Raising Total

[shadokat]

While I feel for the smaller group, it is THEIR responsibility to meet the standards set forth by their international/national organization. I guess the thought process here, is do new women go through recruitment and drop out in the end b/c they don't want to go to this smaller group, or is it just that the smaller group isn't getting people back period? If the system works properly, and often it doesn't, then the smaller group should gain ground eventually.

[bruinaphi]

Like Aphigal said, the first thing that should happen is the chapter member should call her NPC delegate and talk to the area advisor.

Just as an annedote though, one of the campuses I work with came up with a creative solution to this problem. There were 3 chapters that were about 70 members over total, 4 chapters that were above total but about 10-15 members below average chapter size and 2 chapters that were at or right beneath total but about 70-100 members below the largest group in size. These two small chapters did not take quota every year, but that was also by choice.

No one could agree on raising total or expansion. What we could agree on was that we didn't want to lose any of the chapters that were there. Instead, we put a plan in place for all of the chapters to help the two groups who were smallest recruit well and improve their image on campus. Panhellenic actively advertised COB Rush and the collection of names for informal recruitment, the other sororities attended BBQ's and other non-alcoholic social events hosted by the two groups and we started an alcohol-free exchange rotation for the whole row. After a year, those two groups were a more competitive size and were willing to pass a resolution to raise total closer to average chapter size. Then those groups in the middle could COB as well. Then, after Total was raised, Panhellenic voted to expand.

It was a long and arduous process, but in the end the chapters are a lot more stable and anyone coming on to campus will be more comfortable with the status of the other groups.

Good luck!

[Firehouse]

You are right: boys don't understand that way of thinking. I knew better but I put my 2-cents in anyway. It's obvious that Panhellenic has a great system in place that ensures stability of the system.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Firehouse
You are right: boys don't understand that way of thinking. I knew better but I put my 2-cents in anyway. It's obvious that Panhellenic has a great system in place that ensures stability of the system.

OK, Mr. Sarcasm :P. Believe me, I don't think NPC is right in the way it does everything, in more than one matter I think it has its heads up its ass(es?). But the fact of the matter is: NPC was created to strengthen and support the sororities as a WHOLE - not to do things that may hurt one of them. Cooperation has to be the guiding factor in everything they do. NIC, on the other hand, was not founded to serve that purpose.

I agree with MoxieGrrl: keep waiting and miss out on Greek life, or get together with a few others and have the courage to make a positive change. If you can't do that, do you really want sisterhood, or the shallow popularity that will mean nothing the minute you graduate?

[Firehouse]

Honest. I meant it. You make a good point about NPC and NIC being founded on differing principles. The PanHellenic 'attitude' has always mystified me, and yet it's obvious across the country that the sorority system is very stable and prosperous. I have always believed in free, unregulated competition, and fraternities prosper under those conditions. I think men chafe under regulations and rules, but women seem to take comfort in and respond to (what?) - 'cooperative effort' (?). Would that be the right phrase? No one can argue with the success of the NPC system, and frankly I've change my mind, slowly. I have always felt that if sororities operated the same way as fraternities, the sororities would be more successful in keeping chapters from going under. I no longer believe that, but it's been hard for me to accept. It has taken me a long time to understand that men and women (young men and young women anyway) think differently and respond differently to circumstances.
I went to a southern school that had 19 NPC sororities, mostly old chapters. They were large chapters and beautifully housed. Five of those national NPC sororities have left campus since the 1960s when I was in college. Their beautiful homes are now gone altogether, or bought by fraternities. A sixth left campus and came back later, successfully. It was a very predictable, very disheartening process. Each time a sorority failed and left campus, another took its place at the bottom of the ladder. You could tell just by looking who the next one to leave would be. Each had exactly the same profile as the last one: the fewest members, the fewest prospects, the least hope. And yet - and this is what I didn't understand - the sorority system insisted that everyone participate in the same rush under the same rules at the same times every year. Every rushee got to see every sorority under the same conditions. The ones with few members never had a chance to compete. Of course, they were allowed to open rush in the spring, but no one taught them how to do it, and they lacked confidence in themselves. I thought it was a cruel system. Something else: the five sororities everyone regarded as having the highest status when I was a freshman in the mid-1960s are the same five that occupy the same status today. Yes, the NPC system provides stability, but no one seems to be able to move up from their assigned place; if they move at all it is only down and out. We lose another sorority at the rate of about one every five years.
No, 33Girl, I was not being sarcastic. I have seen your posts before on GreekChat and I respect your opinions and admire your involvement. My apology was sincere. You're right. I just don't see it the same way, and I don't think any of us guys do. There is much to criticize in the fraternity system, and I'm sure there are things about us that mystify women too. Maybe not. Women seem to understand us much better than we understand them.

[doubleblue&gold]

The smaller group should be supported and allowed to grow at their own speed----as long as the system as a whole remains healthy. There are just times that are better than others....don't punish them for having a bad semester/term.

So......
If you can't buy a Cadillac in town, you go to the next town to get it. If those women are determined they won't join the smaller group and want one of the others, they can wait and just go thru formal recruitment when those chapters can pledge quota----even if it puts them over total. If they don't want to wait, well then it didn't matter enough to them in the first place!

[carnation]

I would say that the problem there is that at larger Southern schools, it's difficult to get a bid unless you're a freshman. Not trying to start up something we've already discussed before--but that is a fact down here.Therefore, waiting til next fall isn't really an option for most women.

[aopinthesky]

I think that if you have to say over and over that you are sincere, not sarcastic and you really really mean it, but you go on to refute what the original poster said and make your point once again, perhaps you are not as sincere as you think or want others to think.
No one tried said that they think NPC recruitment and membership regulations are better than IFC's, and many people agree there is room for improvement, even NPC women. However, Firehouse, these are the rules under which NPC groups are obligated to operate. Change may come but change is slow. We (NPC members) have to make the best of what we have and sometimes that includes protecting small sororities from demolition, thereby protecting all sororities at a particular campus from demolition. Because one thing the I know FOR sure is this: if the underdog sorority folds, there is going to be another underdog to take their place. There are MANY other threads where members have posted the sad stories of the death of their sorority because the women's greek system at their school did not help them, but rushed to increase chapter totals or expand just to help the larger groups. Certainly there comes a time when, if a small group ceases to grow, (which sounds like it may be the case for Carnation's friend) and cannot overcome whatever is holding them back, that the campus should make a decision to do what is best for the system as a whole, but that is not the first plan of action for NPC.
For all it's faults, I doubt that you will convince many NPC women that the willy-nilly way that IFC fraternities recruit and retain members and start new chapters, is preferable, and yes (on this I agree with you) a lot of it is because women and men respond differently to rules and regulations. You give a lot of statistical information about the openings and closings of the sororities where you went to school, but I would also be interested to know how many fraternities have started up and folded in the same time period (I bet just as many).

[KappaKittyCat]

I think it's important to note that low numbers are never the problem itself; they're the most visible symptom of the problem. It was the same way with my chapter. We had horrible internal problems, which resulted in our shrinking as women left. Freshmen did not want to join a chapter that was obviously so small and weak, so we continued to shrink and the internal probelms grew. The first step is to halt the cycle in the only spot where the members have control: the internal mechanisms of the chapter. Panhellenic should not raise total-- yet. Panhellenic should give this chapter a few years' chance to get its act together. It could require some major restructuring. But I can tell you from experience that the moment the internal problems begin to be ironed out, PNMs can sense it. They'll automatically stop to give this chapter a second look.

[Firehouse]

Yes, you're right about the fraternities and their tunrover. In fact, even more fraternities have left than sororities. That's to be expected in the sort of 'wild west' arrangement the fraternities have. The fraternities do tend to come back and re-establish their chapters after the weather clears though.
At my alma mater, both the sorority and fraternity system is in splendid shape with bright futures. I was curious to hear that the freshman-pledge problem was a regional issue. I didn't know that, but you are absolutely right: here, if a young woman doesn't get in as a freshman, she'll never get into a high-status house. I wish just one sorority would specialize in junion transfer students. There are a great many outstanding women who would make terrific sorority members. They are never solicited.
Your signature indicates you are an AOPi. I was the AOPi Pledge Sweetheart when I was a fraternity pledge myself. But our AOPi chapter went under during the bad times in the early 1970s. They sold their beautiful house to a fraternity, and now I doubt that they'll ever re-establish themselves here.
I've been told that in life, whatever decision you make, you have to give up something in order to get something else. The sororities get stability and strength across the system, and give up chances for expansion and, as you say, whomever is close to the bottom automatically takes the place of the one that just left.
Fraternities get freedom to grow and experiment, and to be as large or as small as they want. Sometimes, that results in chaos, and so we give up the system-wide strength and stability that make sororities so consistently solid.

[aopinthesky]

Your points are well-taken, Firehouse. You are right when you say that NPC groups DO trade flexibility for security. Again, that may be another battle of the sexes.
You don't say where you are from, but I am in the South. It is true that recruitment is very competitive and even on smaller campuses (but especially on large ones) it is hard to compete with Freshmen for spots. I agree with you that sororities should consider the maturity of upperclassmen and all the things they can bring to a chapter that a freshman can't, but that often doesn't happen.
I do think that sororities know they have to work VERY hard to maintain their status-quo even, because if they leave campus, who knows if they will ever be able to come back. Every decision they make regarding membership has to be the right one. Sometimes not a good place to be.

[ZetaGirl22]

Maybe there could be a compromise. I know at my school we had a similar issue. There were several groups at total and wanted to participate in COB, so Panhel decided to comrpromise by allowing those already at total to take enough girls to go 5 over total. So with people dropping out over the summer (we had COB in the fall), that worked out to be around 10 girls for those chapters. (A considerably smaller number than those chapters who were actaully allowed to COB). So everyone got to participate and everyone was happy.

[pinkpixie]

I know that at my school, there are only 3 multicultural sororities, and 2 of these are local. The local groups are considerably smaller while the international NPC sorority continually has to turn away girls because they are at total. However, one of the reasons that I feel that total should be raised in some cases is because certain sororities have values, philanthropies, etc. that better fit some girls than the values, etc. of other sororities. Why make girls feel like they have to join a sorority that is not right for them in order to be a part of greek life simply because the other sororities did not make total.

[aopinthesky]

>>>Why make girls feel like they have to join a sorority that is not right for them in order to be a part of greek life simply because the other sororities did not make total<<<

You don't say whether you are a member of an NPC sorority, but it is not the "NPC way" to open campuses for expansion or encourage a campus to raise total (by much anyway) if there is a struggling NPC group there. Of course, if it is obvious that the struggling group can't move forward that is a different story, but the first plan of action would be to give them a chance to do so.
Women SHOULD join the group that they feel is right for them, but who is to say that the sorority of the moment would bid them anway? It is a mutual selection process. Just because you have a group of girls who say "we only want to be XYZ" doesn't mean XYZ feels the same way.
That being said, I am speaking strictly of NPC groups and the campus panhellenics that govern them. The situation at your school is a bit different, however, since only one of your sororities is NPC. Do those groups recruit together? Has anyone spoken to the greek affairs person at your campus about opening for NPC expansion? Perhaps one of the existing locals would be interested in going national, which would certainly expand the possibilities for everyone.

[carnation]

Originally posted by KappaKittyCat
I think it's important to note that low numbers are never the problem itself; they're the most visible symptom of the problem. It was the same way with my chapter. We had horrible internal problems, which resulted in our shrinking as women left. Freshmen did not want to join a chapter that was obviously so small and weak, so we continued to shrink and the internal probelms grew. The first step is to halt the cycle in the only spot where the members have control: the internal mechanisms of the chapter. Panhellenic should not raise total-- yet. Panhellenic should give this chapter a few years' chance to get its act together. It could require some major restructuring. But I can tell you from experience that the moment the internal problems begin to be ironed out, PNMs can sense it. They'll automatically stop to give this chapter a second look.

I was looking at old threads and this post really made me think. Any new opinions?