Poor State of Black Men in Higher ED

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by Kimmie1913


I do agree with you on that. Our "leadership" is abysmal. Our successful role models are always quick to dispel any responsibility for those that come behind them. People who have some influence over how our young people think are unwilling to use their power for good instead of evil. (You know what I mean) It is disheartening and it does make the job that much more challenging for those of us who are successful and willing to go back to our communities and work and stand with them and try to make a difference.

I think that the biggest challenge for people who have "made it" is effectively working with people they are trying to help make it. Living and working in an urban environment like Baltimore, this is often a hurdle. In order to be effective you have to connect with people on some level. There have been a lot of pronouncements about the morals of this population. Have you found those sentiments to be a hindrance as you work to make a difference? I tend to find moralizing to be a great way to alienate your audience. Chapters here that have a nose in the air, "I made it out, why didn’t you attitude?", do far less community service and are less effective with it.

Soror, its obvious that your heart is in the right place, but that is the "liberal" conundrum. Because we feel others pain, we have a tendency to absolve them of their role in their failure. We allow them to continue to abuse our funds and trust because they know our heart is to big to allow them to suffer at their own hands. We all know women and mothers who let some no good man live off of her while she works, pays the rent and car note. Why, because their heart rules their head. The same with liberal social programs. We won't let people starve, go homeless, or uneducated, no matter what their part is in creating their situation. There is a law in business known as "perverse incentives". That is where the rules create the opposite effect of their intent. Women should not be rewarded for having multiple children out of wedlock, given preferential housing, food stamps, and free healthcare. By doing so, the law creates a dis-incentive to behave responsibly because there is no tangible downside to being irresposible since your "mistakes" will be rewarded. Kimmie, you decry "moralizing", but what good is instruction without a moral component. Without a sense of shame or delayed gratification (which is what morality imparts). Morality is an inherent component of responsibilty. Telling 13yr olds that it is okay to have sex as long as you use a condom is not teaching responsibilty because it lacks a moral component. We must do more than reduce disease and pregnancy for what ails our communities. We have lost our moral compass, that sense of "doing right". Instead we have descended into moral equivelency, amorality, and secular humanism.

The biggest problem with social programs is that there is no parallell impetus for personal self-improvement, character development or a sense that the recipient must earn the assistance other than just being in the condition of need. We can no longer administer these programs as they were done one or two generations ago. Everything that effects our communities must be re-thought.

[Kimmie1913]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82



Soror, its obvious that your heart is in the right place, but that is the "liberal" conundrum. Because we feel others pain, we have a tendency to absolve them of their role in their failure. We allow them to continue to abuse our funds and trust because they know our heart is to big to allow them to suffer at their own hands. We all know women and mothers who let some no good man live off of her while she works, pays the rent and car note. Why, because their heart rules their head. The same with liberal social programs. We won't let people starve, go homeless, or uneducated, no matter what their part is in creating their situation. There is a law in business known as "perverse incentives". That is where the rules create the opposite effect of their intent. Women should not be rewarded for having multiple children out of wedlock, given preferential housing, food stamps, and free healthcare. By doing so, the law creates a dis-incentive to behave responsibly because there is no tangible downside to being irresposible since your "mistakes" will be rewarded. Kimmie, you decry "moralizing", but what good is instruction without a moral component. Without a sense of shame or delayed gratification (which is what morality imparts). Morality is an inherent component of responsibilty. Telling 13yr olds that it is okay to have sex as long as you use a condom is not teaching responsibilty because it lacks a moral component. We must do more than reduce disease and pregnancy for what ails our communities. We have lost our moral compass, that sense of "doing right". Instead we have descended into moral equivelency, amorality, and secular humanism.

The biggest problem with social programs is that there is no parallell impetus for personal self-improvement, character development or a sense that the recipient must earn the assistance other than just being in the condition of need. We can no longer administer these programs as they were done one or two generations ago. Everything that effects our communities must be re-thought.

I absolutely agree with that assessment, Doggystyle. I do think that there are people who should be allowed to fail at their own hands without a safety net or a rescue. At the same time, unless we are ready to create true ghettos separating the haves and have nots by gates and walls, there is a self interest in keeping the gap between the haves and have nots to a certain level. While there are many social constructs that differ between the US and other countries around the world, I do think the ability to keep the numbers of the poorest of the poor under control or appeased has been the key factor in preventing a civil war in this country. If you look throughout history, the impetus for many instances of civil unrest has been poverty. I think there are many reasons to have social programs other than it makes me warm and fuzzy inside and I do think there is a way to infuse a program with incentives to work and improve a situation.

Second, I think looking out for the children who are victimized by these situations is different than looking out for the parents. I know that in some ways that lets the parents off the hook but I am not convinced that by letting these children suffer with no hope it is inspiring the parents to better behavior. As the number of children in these circumstances grows, you are left again in a situation when all of society is likely to feel the repercussions. I think that is something to consider as decisions about programs are made. I also believe that programs that take a more holistic approach may be warranted provided they teach people how to do better, see a different reality and require that the put in substantial effort of their own.

Our welfare system I terribly flawed. I agree with Reki that it should be a temporary help not a life style. I think that Black pop culture glamorizes it far too much ( I mean we have a song out there called it’s the first of the month for heaven’s sake) but I think that much of the flaws that exist were intentionally created and have succeeded in doing exactly what they were supposed to do to certain communities.

[Eclipse]

Yet another article on this subject. This really fits with some of the conversation on AKA Ave about the decline of black (male) greeks today...


http://www.ajc.com/sunday/content/ep...6512300d6.html

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by Eclipse
Yet another article on this subject. This really fits with some of the conversation on AKA Ave about the decline of black (male) greeks today...


http://www.ajc.com/sunday/content/ep...6512300d6.html

That's a good article. I like the writing style. Thanks for posting it.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by Steeltrap
That's a good article. I like the writing style. Thanks for posting it.

I thought it was a really good article too, although it really made me sad. I have a nephew in college, and talking to him and some of his friends is the personification of this article. They are bring kids, but they are more concerned about the right shoes, clothes and cars than any thing else. Delaying gratification.....what's that??

BTW...Holsendolph is African American. Since his name is not "typical" some folks my want to discount what he says.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by Eclipse
I thought it was a really good article too, although it really made me sad. I have a nephew in college, and talking to him and some of his friends is the personification of this article. They are bring kids, but they are more concerned about the right shoes, clothes and cars than any thing else. Delaying gratification.....what's that??

BTW...Holsendolph is African American. Since his name is not "typical" some folks my want to discount what he says.

I'm familiar w/Holsendolph and know he's AfAm. I first heard first heard of him when I was a member of NABJ (I haven't been a member in 7 years, I need to rejoin)

Bling-bling is pervasive. And at its worst, it leads to the "gangsta/thug" image and behavior which has caused the erosion of moral capital that's occurred when it comes to us and our continuing struggle for civil rights (see Blackwatch's thread in Alpha Phi Alpha).

[DoggyStyle82]

I think that the one point that was missing in this article was the lack of positive role models for young men.. By this, I mean educated fathers and uncles who will stay in their azz til they succeed academically. There is such a problem ingrained in our culture about getting by and getting over and living for the immediate. Without steady jobs and homeownership by educated bethroted couples, there can be no "community". Without men to guide, provide, protect, and instruct, these boys are sucked into a vacuum of misplaced masculinity and a defiance of anything that demands study, detail, and mental labor. The absence of men is killing our race and culture. I thank God everyday for the strong examples of men that showed me how to be a man. Sometimes I feel as if our situation is hopeless. The fight gets harder everyday.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
I think that the one point that was missing in this article was the lack of positive role models for young men..

There was actually a companion piece about a black male teacher and some of his mentees--all who are doing very well. The teacher wrote the article to encourage others to mentor and to extol the benefits of mentoring. I couldn't find the article when I posted the other one, however.

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
I think that the one point that was missing in this article was the lack of positive role models for young men.. By this, I mean educated fathers and uncles who will stay in their azz til they succeed academically. There is such a problem ingrained in our culture about getting by and getting over and living for the immediate. Without steady jobs and homeownership by educated bethroted couples, there can be no "community". Without men to guide, provide, protect, and instruct, these boys are sucked into a vacuum of misplaced masculinity and a defiance of anything that demands study, detail, and mental labor. The absence of men is killing our race and culture. I thank God everyday for the strong examples of men that showed me how to be a man. Sometimes I feel as if our situation is hopeless. The fight gets harder everyday.

What he said. I trust that you're the example for your son.
There's just something about a man raising a boy.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
I think that the one point that was missing in this article was the lack of positive role models for young men.. By this, I mean educated fathers and uncles who will stay in their azz til they succeed academically. There is such a problem ingrained in our culture about getting by and getting over and living for the immediate. Without steady jobs and homeownership by educated bethroted couples, there can be no "community". Without men to guide, provide, protect, and instruct, these boys are sucked into a vacuum of misplaced masculinity and a defiance of anything that demands study, detail, and mental labor. The absence of men is killing our race and culture. I thank God everyday for the strong examples of men that showed me how to be a man. Sometimes I feel as if our situation is hopeless. The fight gets harder everyday.

I agree with what you are saying, but many of these boys (my nephew included) are not from single parent families and are not lacking in positive black male role models. Sure, many of them are concerned about career and good grade in college, but so much of their conversation is about cars, clothes and and girls. That "misplaced masculinity" that you mentioned is still there.

[DoggyStyle82]

Originally posted by Eclipse
I agree with what you are saying, but many of these boys (my nephew included) are not from single parent families and are not lacking in positive black male role models. Sure, many of them are concerned about career and good grade in college, but so much of their conversation is about cars, clothes and and girls. That "misplaced masculinity" that you mentioned is still there.

That is unfortunately true about some two parent households, but effective parenting should keep that in check. Unfortunately, we are so easy with our children and let the media and mass culture decide their values rather than us. BET which is geared toward teens shows commercials to encourage kids to "wrap it" rather than "keep it in their pants". Everyone shirks their responsibilities and these young, impressionable minds inevitably gravitate toward the flash rather than the substance of a truly rewarding life.

[AKA2D '91]

The book (I am currently reading) College Boy by The Urban Griot is a great read for young males and men, in general.

[DoggyStyle82]

What is wrong with our people? After 50 years of civil rights, this is what we have come to. Who are our Sistas to marry and create future generations with?



COLLEGE CRISIS AMONG BLACK MALES
Basically, it's the same song different year.

*It's looking grim for black males and
higher education. Here's the bottom line:
nationally, a mere quarter of the 1.9 million
black men between 18 and 24 attended college
in 2000, the last year the American Council on
Education reported such statistics. By contrast,
35 percent of black women in the same age group
and 36 percent of all 18 to 24-year-olds were
attending college.
A grimmer statistic, according to the American
Council on Education, is that the graduation rate
of black men is the lowest of any population.
Only 35 percent of the black men who enrolled
in NCAA Division I schools in 1996 graduated within
six years. White men, on the other hand, graduated
at a rate of 59 percent; Hispanic men, 46 percent;
American Indian men, 41 percent; and black
women, 45 percent.
Where are the black men, why are so few
on our college campuses and why are so few
graduating?
"In 1999 there were 757,000 black men
in federal, state and local prisons," according
to the Autumn 2003 issue of the Journal of
Blacks in Higher Education. "In 1999 ... there
were 604,200 African-American men enrolled in
higher education in the United States. Therefore,
there were 25 percent more black men in prison
in the United States than were enrolled in institutions
of higher education. Today, black men make up 41
percent of the inmates in federal state, and local
prison, but black men are only 4 percent of all
students in American institutions of higher
education."

[mulattogyrl]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
Today, black men make up 41
percent of the inmates in federal state, and local
prison, but black men are only 4 percent of all
students in American institutions of higher
education."

This is overhwelming to me. I don't even know what to say. Your question was a good one - how can we develop future generations as a people if our brothers make up 41% of the prison population? (No wonder I'm single!) Thank you for bringing this to our attention.