Fake Pi Kappa Phi Chapter!?!

[swede]

I know that calling them "fake" was wrong. Obviously Pi Kappa Phi Country Club is not a fake organization and I am sure they have a lot of dedicated brothers and alumni.

I did not post this in the spirit of wanting to blow up their house or make them change their name or anything like that.

I like to think of myself as a student of fraternal history and more so Pi Kappa Phi history. I would more than anything like to hear back from the Country Club Brothers to see what they have to say.

As someone mentioned, I would imagine that I am not the fist Pi Kapp to notice this coincidence of names. I am thinking maybe there is some interesting story behind all this...

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by shadokat
You can go to www.uspto.gov and search to see if your group has your letters, crest, etc. trademarked. Pi Kappa Phi does not, and doesn't appear to have even dead trademarks that weren't renewed. So in reality, any group can call themselves Pi Kappa Phi and that's fine. As for the other Delta Phi Epsilon, they are an international service fraternity, and the reason it's ok for them to do that, is because we don't have our letters/name trademarked yet.

shadokat - awesome & very interesting link!

[33girl]

There's also a local fraternity (I forget where) called Alpha Sigma Tau...obviously no connection to the natl sorority Alpha Sigma Tau.

A lot of times when systems are all local they have no clue about what national fraternities are out there. That's not a slam, just a statement. Think about how many of us in nationals had not heard of this or that national GLO - and we often have a list of them in our pledge manuals.

[madmax]

This situation isn't much different than Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha Society sharing similar names.

Does anyone know if Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha Society ever have chapters on the same campus?

Does that cause any problems?

[damasa]

Originally posted by ktsnake
I'm no legal person but I do think that GLO's have trademarked/copyrighted our letters (well many of us have). Your HQ might see it fit to pursue the matter in court. I definitely wouldn't want someone who was NOT a Sigma Nu walking around representing us. These guys are representing your organization and that can be dangerous.

Eh? They are representing Pi Kappa Phi Country Club "a local fraternity in no way associated with Pi Kappa Phi National Fraternity." How is that representative of the national Pi Kappa Phi? Just because someone may not know the difference between the two doesn't mean that they are representing themselves as the natioanl fraternity. Unless they are claiming to be a chapter of the national but other than that I see no representation but a disclaimer stating they are not a chapter of the national.

About the whole name thing, even if Pi Kappa Phi had their name, letters and crest protected by a copyright or trademark doesn't guarantee them a win in court. It would depend on the legal name that is protected under the trademark/copyright. There are so many businesses that are operating under the same name, it's sick.

Not to mention what kind of case it might bring for such a group if they don't have an active chapter in the same state as the Pi Kappa Phi country club. Yadda yadda yadda......and so on and so fourth.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by madmax (in part)
Does anyone know if Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha Society ever have chapters on the same campus?

Kappa Alpha Society only has 11 active chapters. They are at:

Union College
Hobart College
Princeton University
University of Toronto
Lehigh University
McGill University
University of Pennsylvania
University of Western Ontario
Wesleyan University
University of Alberta
University of Calgary

Of these schools, Kappa Alpha Order only has a chapter at Princeton (unless I have missed one). Don't know if they have any confusion problem.

[wptw]

What's to be confused about?

There are only 13,824 unique combinations of three greek letters, and only 576 unique combinations of 2 greek letters. So it's not surprising that some groups share names, particularly with the incredible number of local fraternities that have existed over the years.

13,824 sounds like a big number, but it's not when you consider that the letters stand for greek mottoes which are all very similar and use the same greek words. So it's unlikely many of those 13,824 combinations would be chosen. Plus, you have to immediately discount Delta Upsilon Mu, Alpha Sigma Sigma, Phi Upsilon Kappa and the like as suitable combinations for obvious reasons.

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with this - ethically or legally. You can't put 10,000 people in a stadium and then act surprised when there's more than one guy in there named Bob.

And if your name is Bob, I'm sure when you meet another guy named Bob, you don't start getting up in his face and demanding to know what he's all about. And if this Bob guy does something stupid, you don't particularly worry how it reflects on you, or on "Bobdom" as a whole. And Bob probably doesn't go around telling all the other Bobs that he's the only REAL Bob because he was there first and has more chapters.

The word "Bob" has now lost all meaning for me and thi spost has given me a headache. Point is, it's no big deal.

wptw

[madmax]

Originally posted by wptw


Anyway, I see nothing wrong with this - ethically or legally. You can't put 10,000 people in a stadium and then act surprised when there's more than one guy in there named Bob.

And if your name is Bob, I'm sure when you meet another guy named Bob, you don't start getting up in his face and demanding to know what he's all about. And if this Bob guy does something stupid, you don't particularly worry how it reflects on you, or on "Bobdom" as a whole. And Bob probably doesn't go around telling all the other Bobs that he's the only REAL Bob because he was there first and has more chapters.

If it is legal then what's the point of a trademark?

Let's say someone wants to start a fraternity and they like the letters TKE. Is their anything to prevent them from using the name TKE Society or TKE Order?

[Kevlar281]

Part of it bothers me but then I look at their page and think “1908” that’s one hell of a long time to be maintaining a local. I don’t think I would be as forgiving if this was going on now with some upstart local.

[kappaloo]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
Kappa Alpha Society only has 11 active chapters. They are at:

Union College
Hobart College
Princeton University
University of Toronto
Lehigh University
McGill University
University of Pennsylvania
University of Western Ontario
Wesleyan University
University of Alberta
University of Calgary

Of these schools, Kappa Alpha Order only has a chapter at Princeton (unless I have missed one). Don't know if they have any confusion problem.

Just thought I would remark my surprise - Almost half of those chapters are Canadian!

[damasa]

Originally posted by Kevlar281
Part of it bothers me but then I look at their page and think “1908” that’s one hell of a long time to be maintaining a local. I don’t think I would be as forgiving if this was going on now with some upstart local.

Forgiving or not, from a legal standpoint, you still might not have a case.

[shadokat]

wptw,

The words Tau Kappa Epsilon are a registered trademark with the Patent and Trademark office. I don't know if you add society or order if you can use it. I would be willing to bet that SOME infringement would apply.

[Kevlar281]

Originally posted by damasa


Forgiving or not, from a legal standpoint, you still might not have a case.

Could you please direct me to the part of my post that made any comment towards legal action against this organization?

[damasa]

Originally posted by Kevlar281

Could you please direct me to the part of my post that made any comment towards legal action against this organization?

Basic assumption considering the fact that if you didn't think about taking legal action, wihat other way would you be "not as forgiving?"

[pikappdb522]

Hey Swede,
Here is what I know of this chapter and let me preface this entire email by saying I do not like it (HATE IT!), but it is there.
Now remember, all of this is what was told to me by another Brother so I am not 100% accurate.
This chapter is a rogue chapter from 1908 that was supposed to join Nationals, but for some reason did not (and I dont know why). If you notice, their colors are different (orange, not yellow) but everything else is the almost the same. Now that they have been around for almost 100 years, it may be a little late to change things. The Brother that told me about them had a hat made in their colors as a joke during Mid-Year, but no one even noticed that there was a difference.
That is all I know but I will try to get more info and keep you informed.
I hope you and ALL the PI KAPPS around the world have a wonderful and safe Christmas and that we are all blessed.

Peace to you my Brother,
Garrick Hill
DB 522