Another Black Face Incident, This Time at UVA

[Munchkin03]

Nothing about this surprises me. Everything about it makes me appalled, but NOT ONE BIT surprises or shocks me. Do these college-educated men need to be told that blackface is wrong? Apparently so, or the people of Virginia are wasting taxpayer money on the education of these MORONS.

I laugh at the allegation that the Omegas would allow the Betas to use their shirts. HA! I don't care HOW tight they are...

[BookishBabe]

Originally posted by adduncan


"Old South" is a cotillion at EP chapter. (Purdue U--way to the north of the Mason-Dixon line.) It had **nothing** to do with slavery, or African-Americans, or the mockery thereof.

Adrienne (KA wife)

Trust me when I say that it had everything to do with glamorizing slavery and life in the pre-Civil War South in my neck of the woods. It's sad, really: I'm sure there are some wonderful KAs out there (including your husband), but whenever I meet a KA these days I always view him kind of warily until I get to know him better. I know it's not fair, and I know it's prejudicial, but I'm working to get over it.

[adduncan]

Food for thought.....

There were TWO fraternity chapters busted for their stupidity this time.

Is there some reason why everyone is ONLY focusing on KA Order and not scandalizing the other fraternity, which is equally guilty?

Just wondering.

Adrienne

[LeslieAGD]

This is disgrace. Seem like we hear about one incident and twenty more pop up right after it.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by adduncan

Is there some reason why everyone is ONLY focusing on KA Order and not scandalizing the other fraternity, which is equally guilty?

Because KA is known on A LOT OF campuses (not all!) for their Old South stance. To a lot of people, glamourising the Old South means glamourising slavery and white supremacy. Counting Robert E. Lee as its spiritual founder...

Because almost everyone on this board has a story about seeing KA members wearing very proudly their letters with Confederate Flags. I have never seen a KA shirt without a Confederate Flag on it.

Because KA has been kicked off of at least 5 campuses I know of for doing things which have antagonized members of the minority and enlightened white community.

It's kinda like this...if a fraternity and a math club were both accused of doing the exact same kind of hazing, who would get the most attention from it? You make your own PR. And, for better and for worse, KA has made its own. That said, I have never met a member of KA who has not proven himself a gentleman. I have nothing but good things to say about the individuals I HAVE MET. Zeta Psi is a much less known fraternity, which if I'm not mistaken, is primarily in the North. It was at my school until the membership decided it wanted to go co-ed.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally posted by BookishBabe


Trust me when I say that it had everything to do with glamorizing slavery and life in the pre-Civil War South in my neck of the woods. It's sad, really: I'm sure there are some wonderful KAs out there (including your husband), but whenever I meet a KA these days I always view him kind of warily until I get to know him better. I know it's not fair, and I know it's prejudicial, but I'm working to get over it.

Originally posted by Munchkin03

Because KA is known on A LOT OF campuses (not all!) for their Old South stance. To a lot of people, glamourising the Old South means glamourising slavery and white supremacy. Counting Robert E. Lee as its spiritual founder...

Because almost everyone on this board has a story about seeing KA members wearing very proudly their letters with Confederate Flags. I have never seen a KA shirt without a Confederate Flag on it.

Because KA has been kicked off of at least 5 campuses I know of for doing things which have antagonized members of the minority and enlightened white community.

It's kinda like this...if a fraternity and a math club were both accused of doing the exact same kind of hazing, who would get the most attention from it? You make your own PR. And, for better and for worse, KA has made its own. That said, I have never met a member of KA who has not proven himself a gentleman. I have nothing but good things to say about the individuals I HAVE MET. Zeta Psi is a much less known fraternity, which if I'm not mistaken, is primarily in the North. It was at my school until the membership decided it wanted to go co-ed.

Let me be completely honest. I go to Washington and Lee, the burial place and namesake of Robert E. Lee. And the home of the Alpha chapter of KA. And that chapter has some major, major, major, major, major issues. I don't want to cause any trouble, but I will say that those issues involve things such as hazing, risk management, and a general perception (by other Greeks and the rest of the campus) as very southern and oh-so-imperceptibly-racist. Just as one example, about 4 years ago the chapter was caught using cattle prods on their new members. YES. And they were brought back on campus after a year, maybe two years. As another, a brother who writes a weekly column for the paper wrote that unfortunate as it is his chapter would not consider minority members (!!!). That was about 2-3 weeks ago. KA has a LOT of power and influence here at Washington and Lee and I would think that carries across our region of Virginia (UVA is about an hour and 15 minutes away). I have a very good guess that KA chapters may be similar across Virginia. I sincerely hope that this is not the case across the United States. There are some great aspects of KA here, too. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I'm just trying to provide a realistic picture of how I see things here in Virginia...

Edited to add: That said, I by no means am accusing ALL Virginia KA chapters of this behavior, not even the UVA chapter. They obviously need to rethink at least a few of the members' ideas of inclusivity and decorum...

[adduncan]

Let's ratchet it down a notch, folks.

My last post was a question, not a declaration of war.

I know as well as you do that KA Order nationally has it's share of problems. Heck, one of the men from my husband's pledge class transferred from Purdue to TX A&M and told horror stories about being discriminated against himself. (He is Jewish, and that allegedly didn't go over too well w/ the Aggie chapter at the time. HOWEVER--national reorganized the chapter in an attempt to *solve* the problem.)

<soapbox>

My last point on the topic is this: you can't fight prejudice by *being* prejudiced. The minute you hold one group more accountable than others for the very same unacceptable behaviour is the minute you lose the battle and perpetuate the problem.

</soapbox>

Adrienne

[Betarulz!]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974


To Betarulz......

Within NPHC culture(and rules for some orgs), NO ONE WEARS ANOTHER ORGANIZATIONS LETTERS!!! That is unheard off!!

Not even an Omega Psi Phi's wife/sweetheart would wear the letters of her significant other. That is why I do not believe that story about the two orgs "exchanging jerseys".......

Okay, you may not believe it, however I know that everyone can say that campus culture varies from place to place. I'm sure that the most often line in all of GC is "It varies from chapter to chapter". I can think of a hundred different things that another chapter of Beta does that we don't do in my chapter. It could range from drinking in the chapter house to having a sleeping dorm, to something as miniscule as calling it a pledge sneak vs pledge skip.

My point is that unless you are a member of that chapter, or have specifically visted that chapter within the last year you can't for certain tell me that exchanging jerseys is an absolute impossibility. The way I found out about the exchanging of jerseys was through the minutes of one of the commitee's at Beta's 163rd Annual Convention this past summer. Unlike many org's Beta Theta Pi is run by the undergraduates and all final say must be given by the delegates at the annual convention. Given that set of circumstances and knowing that this the word of a commitee of my fellow undergrads from throughout the nation, I feel within my bounds of believing it.

With this feeling of trust I presented this to those on GC, so that they can see the similarities, and see that things aren't always what they seem.

Does this mean that I am a racist...absolutely not. I still think that the Auburn Beta's should have thought out the possible consequences as the world has changed. It was stupid for them, just as it was stupid for the those guys at UVA.

[The1calledTKE]

In this article I am about to post, it mentions Kappa Kappa Gamma and Kappa Alpha Theta sororities also are being investigated by the Inter-sorority Council because soem of their members attened the party. I wonder if the would get in trouble just for attending. They probably didn't know they guys would show up like that.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local...lines-virginia

[sigtau305]

it's a damn shame. you think people would learn by now on what to do and what not to do on something like this. oh, well

[Tom Earp]

Being Related to Robert E. Lee, He was not fighting for Slavery, He was fighting for States Rights. This did not mean Slavery!

I am also Related to Andrew Johnson.

Who in the hell is Andrew Johnson one may ask. Well, he is the one who took the Pres. after A Lincoln was killed! Where is He from?

Tennessee!

The whole Civial War was NOT about Slavery, but Economics.

Gawd, I wish People would get this straight.

European Countrys and the Churches were doing this for EONS!

This is the one thing that people remember and misconstrue.

Slavery, yes it is and was bad, but that were the times.

Do we have slaves now?

There is a battle going on in Kansas City right now about what colleation will govern about rebuilding Old Quindaro Ruins, On the Underground Rail Way!

This is Economics and who will control the money! What will ahppen to the Ruins, it will get lost in the shuffle for the $$$$$$!

I see nothing about guys dressing up in Uniforms and acting elegant, it does bother me taht they do really stupid things as they are doing!

[breathesgelatin]

Personally, I don't have problems with Robert E. Lee. He gave a lot to my school besides just his name, including electives, student government/autonomy, the honor system, the journalism department, the foreign languages department... He was a great man who believed that education could help heal and remake the South. Unfortunately, he was also subject to a lot of the pervasive racism of his time. I don't want to get into historical arguments, but I definately think that we should always strive to rid ourselves of the scourge or racism.

[Swamp Thang]

Just as a point of clarification... The Blackface Fraternities in QUEStion at Auburn didn't 'exchange' jerseys with any members of the Sigma Delta Chapter of Omega Psi Phi.

The Bruhs were at the University of Alabama for UA Homecoming the weekend after that Halloween. When they got back to the Plains, they heard about the photos that were posted on a party pics dot com website that showed members of said Fraternities in Omega para.

The Bruhs, after viewing the offending photos, wanted to get physical with both said Fraternities... But the Bruhs calmed down enough to call the Alpha Phi Grad House in Birmingham (Omega Grad Chapter of which I'm a member) to contact Bro. George Smith (Founding member of Sigma Delta Chapter [1972] and Basilus of Alpha Phi Grad Chapter at the time). I happened to be at the Frat House at the time of the call.

We, after calling our National Officers about the incident, advised the Bruhs to NOT ENGAGE IN A BRAWL with said Fraternities but to immediately get our Frat shirts from those said Frats.

The Bruhs then went to both houses to retrieve the Omega Para and upon getting the jerseys, the members of both Frats said, when inquired about how they acquired the jerseys, that they purchased them from the AU campus bookstore.

Swamp Thang
Initiated Undergrad at the K/_\ chapter of Omega Psi Phi (1993)
Currently Graduate Advisor for the K/_\ chapter of Omega Psi Phi
Current Member of the Alpha Phi Grad Chapter of Omega Psi Phi

[IotaNet]

Originally posted by Betarulz!


My point is that unless you are a member of that chapter, or have specifically visted that chapter within the last year you can't for certain tell me that exchanging jerseys is an absolute impossibility.

Betarulz -

Sorry but I can guarantee you that Omegas (Or any other NPHC Fraternity/Sorority) would NEVER "exchange jerseys" with another Fraternity. It's simply not done.

I don't want to go into the "Its a Black Thing ..." mode but trust me on this. NPHC members would no sooner let a non-member wear their letters than they would let a non-member view their ritual. It's that serious.

[sigmagrrl]

QUote from the article:

"Does it mean something?" asked Lawren McChesney, 18, of Atlanta, who attended the fraternity party. McChesney said she simply thought they were coming in drag, "like Aunt Jemima."


WHAT THE FUKK???? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? AUNT JEMIMA IS DRAG?? WHAT????????? I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THIS!!!!!!

OK, it is pretty obvious to me that people think ignorance regarding race relations and racial tensions are over and obsolete! THIS IS PROOF IT ISN'T!

This is proof of:
* a lack of education regarding tolerance
* basic civil rights history
* the history of racism in this country

ACK!!!!! I DON'T BELIEVE THIS GIRL! PLEASE SHUT YOUR MOUTH BEFORE ANY MORE BRAIN CELLS LEAK OUT!