Who pledges the Hardest?

Blue,

I don't think anyone here is saying that our respective brother/sisterhoods should accept any joe or jane into our organizations. But rather to employ other methods of evaluating potential memebers:

Do you want a brother who wears a his pledge pin because he's afraid of the consiquences he will receive if he doesn't or one who wears the pin out of pride for what the pin means to him?

Do you want a brother who understands what it means to be a brother because he can take a paddling like a man or a brother who understands what it means by standing next to brothers during service to the brotherhood and thru the brotherhood to the community?


I call them, sisters not because of what we have endured for the name of the sorority, but for our ideals which we uphold.

[BurningSands]

Hazing will never stop. I think "pledging" not hazing is a good thing. One respects the organization more. If you have a person haze in an organization, I think that the frat or soro should pull that ******* aside and tell he or she that this is not a gang "crips or bloods" this an organization for the people by the people...We should beat our intakes, we should teach our intakes. If a frat or soro really want to haze or pledge hard then don't beat the intake, you can hurt them mentally......see if the intake will break....words shouldn't hurt you if they are coming from people who really don't know, but is trying to get to know you....don't beat an intake physically, beat them mentally to make the strong and sharp...beat knowledge into their head not your fist..............

Mikki:

Oh just wanted to note. For the record, i was playing devils advocate. *smile* I can see why some would feel we need to idiot proof even the greek system. But I don't agree that we should all have to suffer because of it. But I'll shut up before i start jumping up and down on this soapbox and hurt myself.

jenn

[mgdzkm433]

I know that Jenn, I was just counteracting. I just find certain things that people call hazing or the reasons they call them hazing a bit funny sometimes. I know that you were just pointing out facts.

Ok, again I will ask. What is this "Paper" thing? What are papers?

As far as pledging goes, I am all for pledging. Entrance into a greek organization is by invitation or by bids. This is not a right, it's a priviledge. We don't accept just every person who walks in and says "I want to join." We have to deem them worthy of our letters. Are they going to be an asset? Are they going to bring something to our organization? Do they show respect? These are things that we look at when we decide who does and does not get a bid or invitation. Someone who has shown signs of the above things are the people who get bids or invitations. During their pledge period they need to further those aspects. They need to continue to prove that they are going to bring respect and further the ideals of our organizations. By pledging, they are doing this. I don't mean pledging as in hazing. I mean pledging by learning their info about the organization. By planning events (fundraisers, community service, socials, activities). They need to show that they have leadership skills. They need to show intrest in the organization, how it works, AND how it relates to the other organizations on campus. This is pledging. Pledging isn't supposed to be criminal activity, hazing, hurtful to yourself/friends/school work. It isn't all about parties and girls/boys. It isn't about who's the best. It isn't about who can take a beating.

If we all look back into the history of our organizations, what were we founded for? What did our founders want to accomplish? Did they want to degrade each other by physically abusing each other? Did they to deprive each other of sleep? Did they want their grades to suffer? Did they want each other to eat their own puke? Did they want to mentally abuse each other? I don't believe that our roots would have lasted this long if that was part of thier pledge process.



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Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[ZetaAce]

Mikki,

The term 'paper' means that a person did not go through a pledge process. It is considered a deragatory term. It's essentially saying that the person did not work to get into the organization, the just signed a piece of paper. Some people even go as far as to say a 'paper' person is not a 'true' member of their organization.

I personally feel that your process doesn't matter. As long as you:

A)Know your HISTORY!
B)Work hard in the name of your organization
C)Live up to the prinicples of your organization.

There are plenty of people out there that crossed the burning sands who haven't done any service in years, and don't live up to the principles that our orgs were founded on but are the first ones doing the call or in the stepshows! They are shirt wearers plain and simple. I could go on and on, but I won't.

CK

[This message has been edited by ZetaAce (edited April 06, 2000).]

[mgdzkm433]

Thank you zeta ace, I also think that you have a good answer! :P

------------------
Mikki Gates
Delta Zeta Alum
Kappa Mu Chapter
Sigma Alpha Iota Alum
Eta Tau Chapter

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."

--Julia Roberts
(Steel Magnolias)

Visit me at:
http://homepages.go.com/~dzkm433/index.html
and
http://www.calypso.com/dzkm433/welcomtomyworld.chtml

[dstbrat]

zeta ace is on point. how many folks who pledged are active and financial? how many pledgers do you know who have nightmares? or still harbor ill feeling towards their big brothers or sisters? i know of several who refuse to be active because of the abuse that inflicted upon them. not because of the bond between brothers but because that stuff was done to them(the big brother/sisters). certainly there is something to be said for working hard for a goal. but, endangering people's lives is not what any of our orgs are about. every other day we hear in the news about some org paying out millions of dollars to someone who 'pledged' and died or was seriously injured. many groups have discussed eliminating collegiate chapters all together because of the liability that they present for headquarters. none of us want to see that happen. so, discussion like these in such a public forum hurt, not help the situation.

[ToriAGD-GE]

Hello everyone! I read this whole disscussion thing and I thought I would jump in. I just went through this spring, so there are still things I do not know about the greek system as a whole. I do however know everything I need to know about my organization's history, traditions etc. As far as hazing is concerned. I think that many things that greeks do now can be considered hazing, I also agree that there are many things that are just stupid to call hazing. We had a scavenger hunt. I didnt feel like doing it, but I didnt' consider myself to have been hazed. At first I think alot of my pledge class members were scared as to what would "happen" to us. On our campus our sorority is very secretive and no one knows what we do, so they all assume HAZING. this is not true. if all the other sororities could only see what we did, they would probably laugh. It wasn't hazing at all. And now, after I have been initiated, I look back on everything, and I see the purpose of it. some things we did might have been considered hazing, who knows? But all in all, I feel everything we did, we did together. and if we didnt' want to do something, we would not, as a whole. Therefore, it all brought us together, whether it is considered hazing or not.
One more point I would like to add. we realized that hazing means something different from one person to the next. so that is why we collectively decided as a pledge class to do nothing, even if one girl felt uncomfortable, I think that was the base of our bond. we stood together side by side, and are all thankful of it now
Tori
High Point University
Cool Kids 2000!

[Bottom_Line]

Just a few issues that should be mentioned.....

First of all any beating or abuse is obviously hazing and inapropriate behavior. I am glad to see that this problem has become less and less common.

As to the mental "abuse" that some have referred to, I would like to raise a few ideas to the benifits of practices that have now fallen under the classification of hazing. Scavanger Hunts (now banned on my campus) where pledges are forced to find/ask for items that could be embarrassing do have merit. In the real or buisiness world, success depends on ones ability to be outward, never ashamed to ask a dumb question or feel intimidated by coworkers or bosses and executives. The Scavanger Hunt enhances ones ability to accomplish goals even though there may be tough challenges to conquer. In reality that is most of pledging was about, or at least it was in my case. Many of my brothers said that pledging was one of the toughest situtions they've been through, however they will be the first to tell you how much it has helped them. Pledging helps make everything you do in life comparably easier. It enhances time management skills. After pleging I would accomplish much more, since I was forced to use my time more efficiently during pledging to accomplish my goals. This is why so many extremely sucessful people are from Fraternities or Sororities.

Greek life certainly isn't for everyone. If it is not for you, please don't participate. I wish that people would stop trying to force their opinions on a successful institution that has been more than able to govern itself. When individuals are at fault, do not blame entire institutions. That shows that you are to lazy to come up with a viable solution to a given problem.

Greek life is for those who wish to push themselves and achive more. The opportunities that it opens up are endless. Those who participate in the Greek system have gained better teamwork and communications skills than you will ever learn in a classroom. Do you have to be part of a Fraternitiy or Sorority to gain these skills or opportunities? Of course not, however why would discourage an intitution that has provided so much for so long?

Bottom Line - Hazing is wrong, but true pledging is the root of the greek system and I woulde hate to see that vanish.

[AlphaChiGirl]

Okay...if XYZ Fraternity makes their pledges stay up all night, etc., and as a result their grades suffer, is that considered "pledging hard"? Does that make it a better group than ABC, whose actives realize that community service, brotherhood, and academics are far more important than who's "paper" and who got "wood"? If it does, something is seriously wrong with a Greek system that promotes this lack of prioritization.
I'm sure there are people out there, members of my sorority, and other NPC as well as NPHC and NIC groups, who would probably think I am "paper", that my pledging process, since it did not involve any sort of pain, humiliation, etc (in fact, we were constantly asked if we were comfortable doing ANYTHING that was a new member activity). I'm very happy to say that I maintained my grades during the semester I pledged. And if anyone, regardless of letter, has any sort of disrespect for my pledge process, so be it. I was not hazed, and I think it was the fact that I was not hazed, forced to eat or drink anything I didn't want to, beaten, forced to stay up till all hours, or learn meaningless chants that has given me such pride in my sorority.

[Bottom_Line]

I don't think that those Fraternities/Sororities who pledge the hardest are nessesarly the best to join. However if you do not have the opportunity to experience a complete pledging process you miss some of the most important parts of greek life. I am an engineering student and grades are definately my #1 priority. There is no reason you can't mix a well organized pledge program and maintain a respectable GPA. I wasn't beaten or humilliated (We learned many lessons in humility which is quite different, though often confused), however the process does increase one's 'mental stamina' which is one of the reasons that the members of greek organizations have consistantly been so successful. As long as everyone realizes the true goals that need to be achived during pledging, the outcome will be positive. Pledging should be challenging. Life is about overcoming challenges; just learning your houses's history and having good intentions are not enough. Many organizations have members with those qualities. Pledging is what sets us apart and makes us better. If staying up too late and being put into uncomfortable situations is considered hazing, then I garauntee that everyone will be 'hazed' for the rest of there life at your workplace and in society.
Who hasn't stayed up late to study or work? Who hasn't been put into an uncomfortable position by their Prof, Boss, friend, or coworker? Its an unfortunate reality that we all need to accept and prepare for.

I don't think less of those who may be considered 'paper'. I wish that everyone would realize that often times there is a difference between those who pledged and those who didn't. Take advantage of what the system has to offer, don't be quick degrade a system that has historically functioned very well.

[icytre]

I am a new member on here, and I must say that these are some interesting responses. Let me put my 06 cents in.

I am not ashamed to say that I was hazed physically and mentally. But, it never was in a manner to where I would question anyone's integrity or I felt like my life was at stake. I was drained mentally and physically, and I was very excited and relieved when I put on that Black and Old Gold.

I don't think the question should be who pledged the hardest because people's perceptions are different. Maybe "Who pledges hard?"

Personally, I think anybody can go get a physical beat down. I will not lie, there were times I felt like I was beat down, but there was so much more to my process.

My process consisted of getting to know my fraternity through learning tons of history(chapter & national), getting to know each other, working together with different personalities, teaching life lesssons, getting physically fit, mental challenges, and learning the true meaning of brotherhood through my experiences and challenges. My experiences always seemed to run well after the midnight hour. Being that I am a night person, I could deal with it. Everything I did had significance and reason, and that is how it should be.

I think that we really need to realize that these people we are pledging are our chapter's future. Realizing that, our chapter takes our intake process very seriously because we want our future to keep the chapter's traditions going and possibly add new traditions. Understanding that, it has to be more than just physical. Why settle for just inflicting bludgeonings and malicious attacks?

[pinkice9]

Originally posted by icytre:
I am a new member on here, and I must say that these are some interesting responses. Let me put my 06 cents in.

I am not ashamed to say that I was hazed physically and mentally. But, it never was in a manner to where I would question anyone's integrity or I felt like my life was at stake. I was drained mentally and physically, and I was very excited and relieved when I put on that Black and Old Gold.

I don't think the question should be who pledged the hardest because people's perceptions are different. Maybe "Who pledges hard?"

Personally, I think anybody can go get a physical beat down. I will not lie, there were times I felt like I was beat down, but there was so much more to my process.

My process consisted of getting to know my fraternity through learning tons of history(chapter & national), getting to know each other, working together with different personalities, teaching life lesssons, getting physically fit, mental challenges, and learning the true meaning of brotherhood through my experiences and challenges. My experiences always seemed to run well after the midnight hour. Being that I am a night person, I could deal with it. Everything I did had significance and reason, and that is how it should be.

I think that we really need to realize that these people we are pledging are our chapter's future. Realizing that, our chapter takes our intake process very seriously because we want our future to keep the chapter's traditions going and possibly add new traditions. Understanding that, it has to be more than just physical. Why settle for just inflicting bludgeonings and malicious attacks?

SKEE-PHI FRAT

Personally I think pledging is fine but beating is not. You want the individuals that are entering into your organization to have messed up grades because they wanted to be an Alpha. An Alpha man has always been noted for his character and high scholastic achievement. I can't really comment too much about A Phi but I can about AKA. We are to uphold high scholastics and to take the purpose of your organization away to see who is a true whatever is insignificant. I would want my future sorors to study on line. There information as well as their books. AKA must remain like our founders' and if that can't be maintained AKA will be no more. I would die before I let that happen. We need to really evaluate the principals and ethics of our organizations. Are we acting like our founders and are we welcoming people in our brother or sisterhood that are like our founders? Pledging is fine but, have substance with it. Don't let pledging be in vain. Make your line the tightest and the most educated in the organization and on the campus and I think that would make a true Ebony black and Old gold man. Just for the record No one makes a man like an Alpha Man.

Just my little .08 cents.

Much Love and SKee-Phi my frat Bruh.

[icytre]

Phi-Skee,

I totally agree with you soror. Believe me, academics are a priority when we are accepting someone. Our chapter had the highest g.p.a. in the Southwestern Region (Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklohoma) last year, and we could not have done that pledging people with low grades, especially with even lower grades after intake. We strive for excellence in everything we do. Why would we allow someone to go through intake and then they not be able to be active the next semester. Alpha would not be Alpha if we weren't excelling scholastically. That is an important aspect of the intake process as well. When I was going through, we had to be in the library from 7 p.m. - 10 p.m., and our chapter strongly stresses academics before, during, and after membership intake.

[pinkice9]

Originally posted by icytre:
Phi-Skee,

I totally agree with you soror. Believe me, academics are a priority when we are accepting someone. Our chapter had the highest g.p.a. in the Southwestern Region (Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklohoma) last year, and we could not have done that pledging people with low grades, especially with even lower grades after intake. We strive for excellence in everything we do. Why would we allow someone to go through intake and then they not be able to be active the next semester. Alpha would not be Alpha if we weren't excelling scholastically. That is an important aspect of the intake process as well. When I was going through, we had to be in the library from 7 p.m. - 10 p.m., and our chapter strongly stresses academics before, during, and after membership intake.

Skee-Phi Frat,

Now that's the A phi, I know. I am proud of your chapter and that is how everyone should think in greekdom. I think we as greeks tend to fall short on the individuals we bring into our greek family. I want to give you a big 00000008' from our Alpha Xi Chapter, and O6' from our Gamma Mu Chapter in Salisbury, North Carolina.

GOD bless,

Pinkice9