Is it wrong to.... - Page 2

OnePlus69Is70 · #16 09-30-2002, 01:06 PM

It has nothing to do with being strong or weak rushers- the demand simply isn't there. The newer groups are diluting the pool for everyone else- I have the numbers, and numbers don't lie. We've had three new chapters, and lost three old chapters, in three semesters. Honestly, I think 15 men's groups is WAY too many for this school- 7 or 8 is the reasonable max. We have 8 NPC groups, and they're all of an appropriate size.

Our men's groups are too small and too many, pure and simple. The number of Greek men has been constant for the last ten years- about 550-600. There's no reason to expect it to increase, and actually a number of reasons to expect it to decrease. I've heard that 'more chapters means more men' speech at three different expansion presentations. The actual result each time has been less men for everyone.

And the fact that TKE would come here anyway....once again, I wish the NIC was more like the NPC.

The1calledTKE · #17 09-30-2002, 01:12 PM

Well at least they contacted some locals first so the numbers of fraternties wouldn't have change if one was interested.

I doubt NIC will ever be like NPC because guys pride themselves not being as strict as the girls.

Kevin · #18 09-30-2002, 01:28 PM

I have to agree with zntke.

I'm thankful every time I look at a rush thread that we don't have to do it like that (sorry ladies).

And realistically that 550-600 number could easily grow if that's what fraternities in general tried to do. If more of us would focus on just promoting Greek life and THEN ourselves maybe more quality men would consider joining SOMETHING.

texas*princess · #19 09-30-2002, 01:42 PM

Oneplus, out of curiosity, which school are you attending (if you don't mind me asking)?

I wonder what would cause TKE to WANT to bring a chapter to the school at all odds? I am sure there are other expansion opporunities

I also have to give "props" to Oneplus for worrying about the entire greek system on his campus.

The first university I attended once had scores of NPC and IFC organizations on campus, even though the interest wasn't there. From what I understand, the organizations couldn't keep up.. there were just too few PNM's to go around for the many fraternities/ sororities, and that really killed the greek system for awhile. Only 2 IFC fraternities remained with another local fraternity and two local sororities. Now they are in the process of making the greek system there flourish because the desire to make it better, but the bottom line is if you have all NPC sororities and IFC fraternities there, it won't do much good unless the overall greek interest increases a lot

Rudey · #20 09-30-2002, 05:00 PM

Listen, just voice your opinion. If you don't want them there, then don't accept them into your IFC and if others agree with you, they won't be accepted. It's not about nice, but about being heard and being democratic.

In terms of a bunch of national houses appearing on your campus when greek life isn't expanding, that sucks. Unless they fill a niche, I don't see why a new house should come to a campus because they won't attract new people on top of what's been in the rush pool. For example, if the school doesn't have a black fraternity and there is a group of guys who want greek life but feel they can get much more from a black house, then I think that's filling a niche.

Ask FuzzieAlum and Opie about their thoughts on this if you want too. I think they might know more because they have done work at other chapter.

-Rudey

Tom Earp · #21 09-30-2002, 05:20 PM

One must understand the economics of the Situation! In Your words!

My school has 8 % Greek Men on campus! So does that suck! Yes!

I have many Freinds of TKE and they are doing the same thing that LXA is doing!

We are going back on Campuses that had Chapters that were closed and also looking to open New Ones!

Not every young New College Kid finds what they are looking for! I for one did not!

I wanted to start something new and I did and we are still there since 1965!

The stronger a Campus with Greeks the Better we will all be to do more why, We Do More on and for the campus!

Yes We Battle each other, but We all want the best for Greeks!

In Out get with it! We are a minority, but I am in Hopes we will grow!

FuzzieAlum · #22 09-30-2002, 05:36 PM

Ask me, huh?

Well, I've seen new chapters come to campus and have an adverse affect on other ones. It all depends on what the new group has to offer vs. the extant ones. If a new chapter can make itself "the" Jewish, ag, engineering, nerd, jock, WASP, whatever house where there wasn't one before, everyone benefits, because new people come to Greek life. If they just offer what other groups already do - and that's more likely the more chapters you have on campus - they will just suck away members from the others. Either someone will close or everyone will end up smaller. And that's a bad thing, unless of course the fraternities have been complaining about growing too fast or getting too big - which doesn't sound like the case here.

Not to knock nationals, because I'm a member of one, but they frequently do disregard the opinions/legitimacy of locals. Even if locals are a strong, respectable part of the college they are at, to many nationals they are just hazing nightmares waiting to happen, or members to be pilfered for their own org. I'm perhaps overstating it and some fraternities are more so than others, but the fact is, they might not care what OnePlus thinks. Heck, they might not care what other nationals think, because they know they'll do the same to them in turn.

We criticize fraternities for allowing unrestrained capitalistic growth, and sororities for their socialistic, restricted growth, but the best plan lies somewhere in the middle, in a Zen-like state none of us can get to.

But I think if:
- your org AND other orgs are suffering from a numbers shortage
- you sincerely think it's not due to poor practices on your part (like you're not beating your pledges)
-you don't see that this org offers something substantially different from what is there already
THEN you definitely have the right to protect your organization. You were there first, and, after all, your organization means the most to you.

Optimist Prime · #23 10-01-2002, 02:01 AM

ARe you staying local??

PSK480 · #24 10-02-2002, 10:49 AM

I think SuperSister and I go to the same school. Either that or it's a very strange coincidence that the same stuff happened at my College. I can tell you that TKE was forced on us here at clarion. We just recently lost a chapter of Sigma Tau Gamma, and the rest of us are having a hard time finding associates. The administration pressured the IFC advisor to pressure us, Those of us on IFC, to give them recognition. If the school starts pushing you to recognize them it will create alot of friction. Although I am biased from personal experiences.

The1calledTKE · #25 10-02-2002, 10:50 AM

All they are trying to do is restart a closed chapter. If you chapter has been close for several years would you try to restart it?

PSK480 · #26 10-02-2002, 10:57 AM

I would if the base was there. But if you want to talk fair it isn't fair to chapters who weren't booted for illegal acts to close b/c they can't get guys. If my chapter closed b/c we didn't have the numbers I would be quite mad. But, if we were closed for illegal acts I would understand. If you want to know what happened why don't you write Clarion our IFC and the police and ask what happened? Why should we let another colony in if the rest of us are struggling to get guys? That's just thinning out our numbers.

The1calledTKE · #27 10-02-2002, 11:02 AM

The guys that are in the colony were not booted for those acts so they deserve a chance. Obviously when TKE was on campus before you had more fraternity than you had before what did you do then?

33girl · #28 10-02-2002, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PSK480
I think SuperSister and I go to the same school. Either that or it's a very strange coincidence that the same stuff happened at my College. I can tell you that TKE was forced on us here at clarion. We just recently lost a chapter of Sigma Tau Gamma, and the rest of us are having a hard time finding associates. The administration pressured the IFC advisor to pressure us, Those of us on IFC, to give them recognition. If the school starts pushing you to recognize them it will create alot of friction. Although I am biased from personal experiences.

Either my computer screen is doing weird things, or someone put something in my Pepsi, but I could swear you just said that the administration at Clarion wanted to add a fraternity. Unless they have all been possessed by pod people, I can't imagine.

BTW, don't burn the pig this year, dudes.

Anyhoo - zntke - when TKE was on before I think we had the same amount of fraternities we have now (albeit different ones). But the interest in Greek life was much larger than it is now. Plus, this is the second time TKE has tried to recolonize. The first attempt to weed out some of the members who were causing trouble pretty much didn't work, so that's why a lot of people are wary.

The1calledTKE · #29 10-02-2002, 11:33 AM

Oh well at least IHQ is trying. If t doesn't workout maybe in another 5 years. If it does work out good for them. TKE IHQ has been pretty sucessful restarting closed ones lately.

PSK480 · #30 10-02-2002, 11:44 AM

33girl: our current IFC advisor was pressured by his superiors to push for us to let TKE in. Since his superiors pushed him that can only mean the adminstration wanted them here. Don't worry about the pig, we're keeping bob away from it. We're actually letting people who know what they're doing cook it this year.

zntke711: We are doing the exact same thing we've done for the past 10 years. People just aren't as interested in Greek Life as they used to be I guess. Why should I put my chapter on the line to let some group have a second chance? If you knew there was the possibility that your chapter could get closed b/c you couldn't get people since an organization only has you sign a paper to get in instead of a structured bid system would you risk your chapter?