Part II of the discussion on Enna's thread, discussing Rush in general

[newsun]

The problem -- one size does not fit all!

We need to recognize the fact that the present NPC formal recruitment process does not fit all campuses. Although the process works and is needed on many campuses due to the number of PMN and groups, the process also hurts many other campuses. For example, the process generally does work when being Greek is a positive element on a campus.

Then, we need to have at least one or two types of alternative formal recruitment processes based on campus characteristics. Or at least recommend how to modify the present process based on the type of campus. There have seen so many good ideas on GC that improvements can be made if we only first admit that one process will not work on all campuses.

My favorite post idea was the one suggesting that juniors should not count against quota. Wow, such an easy change that would encourage and not discourage, and overall benefit recruitment. Unfortunately, the need for improvement has to be recognized by the NPC leadership or everything will stay status quo.

[aephi alum]

I was shocked to learn that round 1 parties at some schools last all of 20 minutes, and sororities and PNMs are expected to make decisions based on that. PNMs and sororities really need more time together before cuts start being made, unless the only cuts made after round 1 are for grades.

If I could restructure formal recruitment, I would do this:

1. Require all Panhellenics to enforce release numbers.

2. Create a "no invite with interest" category so that a sorority can let a PNM know that the only reason she wasn't invited back was due to release numbers. I'm not sure how valuable this would be, since it might really break a PNM's heart when she gets only straight no's and doesn't get a "no invite with interest" from any sorority... but it also indicates to PNMs where they might get snapped up or where they should concentrate their COB efforts, and if someone is cut across the board it may be a little less devastating if she knows that in at least one or two cases it was only because of release numbers, not because of her personality or other factors.

3. A PNM should not be allowed to sign up for recruitment if she doesn't meet Panhel's or any sorority's minimum GPA, so that she doesn't get her hopes up during round 1 only to be cut across the board. PNM's should also be informed, before rush starts, of each sorority's minimum GPA; that way, a PNM with a 2.4 won't allow herself to fall in love with a house that requires a 2.5 (obviously she might still be taken as a grade risk, but if she is cut, she will know that it's because of her grades).

4. Lengthen round 1 parties. If that means that round 1 has to be stretched out over 2-3 days, so be it. Actually, what I'd really like to do with round 1 is similar to what my school does: You visit each house for 15-20 minutes. Then, you have an afternoon and evening, or a full day, or more, depending on how many sororities there are, to go back to whichever houses you choose. The open house should include enough time for a PNM to spend at least half an hour or 45 minutes at each house if she wants, and the PNMs should be encouraged to do so. This structure also means that if there are a couple of sororities you really don't like, you don't have to go back to them and can spend more time with sororities that you do like.

5. Don't count juniors and seniors against quota. They would still, of course, count against total. This allows smaller chapters to get up to size more quickly and gives more women the chance to go greek.

6. Allow PNMs to decline invitations even if that means they'd be going back to fewer than the maximum number of parties for that round. It should be discouraged, and PNMs who do it would not be allowed to use the "decline with interest" option, but it should be allowed. A PNM who cuts down to one sorority should be treated as if she ISP'd. This way, a situation doesn't arise where a PNM has been trying to cut a sorority all throughout rush, but they keep inviting her back, she is forced to keep going back, she ends up at their pref party, and either has to ISP or ends up getting a bid from a sorority she doesn't like and is now bound to for a year.

(whew... I wrote a novel, didn't I? )

[Angels&Arrows]

You know... I think sometimes we forget...

anniesigkap, wrote something similar in another thread: In most cases we have not meet the PNMs on GC. However, each chapter has meet them (even if for a short time), reviewed their resumes/recruitment applications, recommendations and in some cases there are girls in the chapter that know the PNMs. If the chapter drops the PNM then they must have decided that maybe she was not the best fit. Or vice versa... if the PNM drops a chapter, she must have decided that they were not a best fit for her. ***This does not include the small percentage that falls through the cracks.***

I have seen lots of PNMs go through rush, not receive a bid, get snapped, COB, or even participate in formal recruitment a second time... ending successfully and happily!!!

I think while we should be supportive/sympathetic/helpful... we should not say things like: "You should COB; I know they'd LOVE to have you!" (Yes, that is written in another thread).

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I think that being informative, encouraging, and sympathetic is appropriate. Saying a group would LOVE to have you crosses the line.

We never saw letters of recommendation when I was active so they were never taken into consideration. Groups did give extra consideration to legacies of course, but there were never more than a handful each year. I'm not even sure what snapped means.

As a sister, I would see about freshman go through rush with their hearts set on one of two or three sororities. Quota was 30ish. These sororities would easily get quota while the remaining would not. Dozens of women would be disappointed. They had decided before rush that they wanted ABC or DE or nothing. They contributed to their own disappointment by not having an open mind. How do you deal with that?

[aopirose]

Originally posted by localsororities


That system is the Hogwart's Sorting Hat.

bwah hahaahaa


Seriously though, Alabama is trying something new this year with a seperate "upperclassman quota". http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v...9?in_archive=1

New quota system looks to attract sophomores and upperclassmen
by Amanda Dawkins
Senior Staff Reporter
August 29, 2002

Upperclassmen may get a better shot at experiencing sorority life this fall due to a new quota system within the Panhellenic Association.

"The Panhellenic Association adopted a new quota system to make it easier for sophomore and upperclassmen to join," said Panhellenic spokeswoman Lydia Seabol. "We're trying to make recruitment more enjoyable."

During the past years of Rush, sophomores and other upperclassmen often found it difficult to obtain a bid from a sorority because sororities have typically tried to fill their quotas with freshmen. In an effort to make the process fair and less stressful, Panhellenic adopted a new quota in addition to the usual quota of new members that can be invited.

This year, houses can accept a certain number of non-freshmen in addition to their traditional quota, based on the number of sophomores, juniors and seniors participating in fall Rush.

Seabol said some of the criteria houses will look for in sophomores and upperclassmen are college grade point average, leadership and involvement.

Associate Dean of Students Rick Funk proposed the new system after witnessing how well it worked at Penn State. One representative of each sorority voted last spring, and the delegates decided they wanted to adopt the system for this fall's Rush.

Panhellenic President Kathryn Rutledge said some sororities were concerned about how the new quota would impact the smaller houses.

"They thought it would help the bigger houses get bigger," Rutledge said.

After a discussion, all opposition was dropped.

Seabol also said that if having more upperclassmen join sororities dramatically affects the houses, the new plan would be dropped.

"We're going to have a two-year trial period," Seabol said. "If it works out well and hasn't hurt any of the smaller houses, I think we'll continue using this system."

Seabol said the new system cuts down on competition between freshmen and upperclassmen recruits.

"If a chapter had to choose between two girls they liked equally and one was a freshman and the other an upperclassman, they would probably go for the freshman because they would be a part of the organization for four years," Seabol said. "The reason is partly financial. It's wrong, but that's the way it was and we're trying to change that. This [the quota system] takes them out of the freshmen competition."

Seabol said the new system is beneficial to houses, as well.

"They are able to get the girls they really want, but hadn't been able to take in the past because of quota," she said. "Some houses thrive on sophomores and upperclassmen. It'll be a good thing, because they'll be able to bring their own University experiences into the sorority since they've been here before."

Rutledge agreed that adding more veterans of the University would benefit sororities.

"They'll be good role models within the pledge class," she said. "We have about 50 sophomores and upperclassmen going through recruitment."

The exact number of upperclassmen that can be admitted into each sorority will not be determined until after the sixth Rush party. After that, a computer program will be used to figure out how many students each house will be allowed to accept.

Rutledge said Panhellenic will do more advertising for the system next fall.

Because of the significant number of transfer students entering the University, Panhellenic representatives will go to transfer sessions to encourage girls to go through Rush.

Anyone interested in learning more about the new quota system can call 348-6077. Applications for fall Rush are available in the greek life office in the Ferguson Center Room 343 or online at www.sa.ua.edu/dos.

Applications are due today, and Rush begins with an opening convocation tonight at 7 in the Ferguson Ballroom.

[SoCalGirl]

The only way I can think of it being fair is having a freshman quota and then an all other quota. But in the end the total amount of quota doesn't seem to make sense to me.

In fact the way I'm seeing it, it would actually hurt a freshman's chances of getting into a larger house.

100 rushees
25 are not freshman
5 houses
-
traditional quota = 20
this system (if it works the way I think) = 15 freshman plus 5 others

So you'd have to have two seperate bid lists. Your freshman list and your others list. Well what if there's 5 freshman that you really like more that the others. Can't have 20 freshman, only 15. So five freshman get screwed!

That's not fair at all so I'm really hoping I'm wrong!

And you can't do quota is 20 plus x# others because they're already included in quota. This again leads to the big getting bigger!

[carnation]

Originally posted by localsororities


That system is the Hogwart's Sorting Hat.

I WANT the Hogwart's Sorting Hat for rush.

[GPhiSweetiePie]

On the topic of how many upperclassmen are accepted during rush, I thought this was interesting:

I believe quota here is about 35 or so? I'm not entirely sure. But regardless, my pledge class of 31 people didn't quite make it. However, more than half of the girls in my pledge class were sophomores when we were initiated. I thought this was great, and assumed it was fairly normal, that all chapters should take about half and half each year, to keep it fair and minimize cliques and separations between pledge classes. But I guess it's not all like that. I was talking to a girl from another house recently, one that made quota (and probably a few extra) and I told her how many sophomores (now juniors) were in my pledge class, and her jaw dropped as she said, "Really?! We only have 2!". I was amazed by this, it just seems so elitist to me. I find it very hard to believe that one house just happened to find 35 freshman girls that were so much better than any of the sophomores who were rushing last year (and there were quite a few!). It sucks that chapters still seem to pay more attention to getting a lot of freshmen instead of slightly older girls...it's just not fair sometimes.

[aopirose]

Originally posted by SoCalGirl
The only way I can think of it being fair is having a freshman quota and then an all other quota.

I think that's how it is going to work which is what I gleaned from the latest article. http://www.cw.ua.edu/vnews/display.v.../3d7c204416762

I agree with you though in that there is great potential for the biggest to get even bigger. I hope that maybe Bama_Alum or someone else in the know could tell us how it all plays out.

BTW - I am sorry to hear about the damage to the Delta Sigma Theta house.

Rush 2002 nears completion
by Amanda Dawkins
Senior Staff Reporter
September 09, 2002

The Panhellenic Association's fall Rush will come to a close Tuesday afternoon when sororities offer bids to potential new members in Bryant-Denny Stadium.

After a week of Rush activities, the rushees will be able to develop sisterly bonds with the sorority of their choice through pledging.

The first round of Rush consisted of ice water teas on Sept. 1. During the teas, potential new members visited 15 houses for 15 minutes each.

The second round of recruitment began Sept. 2. Philanthropy Day, implemented in 1998, was a day where potential new members made hands-on creative projects with sorority members to donate to different charities. Each sorority commits itself to a philanthropy or charity by raising money and working one-on-one with the organization. On Philanthropy Day, potential new members visited 10 houses for 30 minutes each.

The rushees participated in skit parties on Sunday. Skit parties consisted of songs and skits revolving around a theme of the sorority's choosing. Potential new members went to six houses for 45 minutes each.

Tonight is Serious Night, marking the final night of Rush, and the night's parties are by invitation only. An invitation to a preference event means a sorority is very interested in a potential new member. Each sorority presents a ceremony on what it means to be a sister and what the group offers to new members.

At the conclusion of Serious Night, the rushees walk to the Ferguson Center to fill out their formal membership recruitment acceptance cards.

Bids will be distributed Tuesday.

No black students signed up for Panhellenic Rush this year. The newly instituted upperclassman quota has not yet been determined, Panhellenic President Kathryn Rutledge said.

"All quota is determined after skit party. We have 73 out of 76 upperclassmen left. More upperclassmen went through Rush this year than last year," Rutledge said. "As far as upperclassmen quota, some houses didn't understand beforehand how it was going to work out. When they got more involved with voting, they understood it more."

Holly Morris, president of Kappa Alpha Theta sorority, said recruitment is going well for the sorority and the greek system as a whole.

"Rush went a lot smoother this year than last year," said Kay Tidwell, president of Alpha Gamma Delta sorority. "The new upperclassman quota has made things a lot easier. It's working very well. All the sororities have really been coming together and are really helping each other out."

Tidwell said Panhellenic is planning a cookout this week, after Rush is complete, to raise money for Delta Sigma Theta sorority, whose house was damaged in an early-morning arson last month.

[DWAlphaGam]

Originally posted by Cream
As a sister, I would see about freshman go through rush with their hearts set on one of two or three sororities. Quota was 30ish. These sororities would easily get quota while the remaining would not. Dozens of women would be disappointed. They had decided before rush that they wanted ABC or DE or nothing. They contributed to their own disappointment by not having an open mind. How do you deal with that?

This is a problem my campus faces due to rush being deferred to sophomore year. We had 26 women unmatched this year (many of whom were offered snap bids to the sororities who did not receive quota, and they declined because they weren't the ones that they had their hearts set upon) and 54 women dropped out of recruitment completely because they were released by their top choices. It's one of the downfalls of deferred recruitment. Also, sorry to be blunt, but I have no sympathy for the women who don't go through recruitment with an open mind and then complain because they didn't get bids from the places they wanted.

[FuzzieAlum]

I would have to disagree with the criticisms I've seen here of deferred recruitment, but I have to admit my feeling is based only on my experience. My campus used to have deferred recruitment (second semster). Four years ago, they switched to first semester rush.

Rush numbers dropped precipitously. Quota was too low to enable any house to reach ceiling without COBing. Morever, total membership dropped. Numbers used to be something like 50, 50, 45, 30, 30 for the five houses. Today, they are 50, 50, 40, 20, and closed. I wouldn't attribute it to "low interest in Greek life," since the men did not see a similar decline. The school is now going back to deferred recruitment.

Perhaps my school is an anomoly, but deferred rush certainly helped our campus out.

It's interesting to see what the different sorts of problems are on different campuses. At mine, for example, perhaps because of the low numbers, a woman going through rush as a sophomore had no trouble getting a bid whatsoever. If she was a junior or senior, she'd be able to get a bid through COB certainly.

I think part of the problem is that the Greek climate truly is very different from school to school, and schools have limited flexibility in adapting it to their campus. And when it is "adapted" it is usually in a harmful way that drives away rushees.

I do have to agree with A&A that we truly don't know the rushee on the other end of the posting, though. We operate on trust here, so we assume MsRushee is really a college woman rushing and not an 80-year-old man, but we aren't getting the same perspective someone rushing her gets. We've probably all known psycho rushees, and we can never be sure that isn't who we're talking to. We ought to be careful about what exactly we say to them, although this doesn't rule out being comforting. Otherwise, someday an aggravated sorority member is going to come on here and say, "LOOK! MsRushee had terrible BO and was cursing the entire party! You would cut her, too!"

[KappaKittyCat]

FuzzieAlum, I strongly believe that our numbers would go up if we switched from deferred to autumn recruitment. The most popular excuses that women give for not going through our current, deferred recruitment are:[list=1][*]I'm too busy.[*]I don't need to meet people; I already have friends.[/list=1]
If we had recruitment before women got all busy and involved on campus, then our numbers would certainly go up. We could tout it as a good way to get to know not only upperclassmen, but other freshmen you might not otherwise meet. We'd still have a very strong COB push in the winter, but I think our formal recruitment numbers would go up.

However, our administration wants to keep the Greek system under its heel, and they'd never ever let us move to fall recruitment. I wonder what they'd do if IFC/Panhel just up and decided that we were going to switch recruitment times. If we all agreed to it and just did it on our own, what could they really do?

[33girl]

I think whether deferred works depends on the campus culture. FuzzieAlum's alma mater is, from what I've heard, a very academically intense school - hell, I'd be afraid to get involved with the library club before I knew for sure what my classes would be like.

I think deferred is the greatest thing since sliced bread, just because I've seen too many people quit/transfer their first semester. However, keep in mind when I say deferred, I'm NOT referring to any of this silliness where the freshmen can't talk to Greeks for a semester, can't attend parties, can't talk to them in dorms, etc. Just let everyone interact normally and it will probably do a lot to help the freshmen get past the stereotypes.

And I completely agree with DWAlphaGam, if you go through rush with a completely closed mind and think that it would be "beneath" you to look at certain groups, sorry, but I'm not going to shed any tears for you.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by DWAlphaGam

This is a problem my campus faces due to rush being deferred to sophomore year. We had 26 women unmatched this year (many of whom were offered snap bids to the sororities who did not receive quota, and they declined because they weren't the ones that they had their hearts set upon) and 54 women dropped out of recruitment completely because they were released by their top choices. It's one of the downfalls of deferred recruitment. Also, sorry to be blunt, but I have no sympathy for the women who don't go through recruitment with an open mind and then complain because they didn't get bids from the places they wanted.

Originally posted by 33girl

And I completely agree with DWAlphaGam, if you go through rush with a completely closed mind and think that it would be "beneath" you to look at certain groups, sorry, but I'm not going to shed any tears for you.

I tried to respond to this, but it was lost in cyberspace.

My question is how can panhel and individual, smaller sororities combat this single-minded (close minded) attitude that many of the PNMs have?
54 women dropping out of rush! My sorority didn't even have 54 sisters when we would return in the fall semester.

[FuzzieAlum]

33girl, you are sooooooooooo right about my campus. Let's just say it's an engineering school ... not the most socially ept group of women or men. And we did have the sort of deferred rush where you can talk to freshmen and whatnot. You just couldn't a) have them over to your house b) sell them on your chapter or c) buy them things unless you know them before school. I am sure there are schools where deferred rush would not work as well. I just don't think the option should be taken away for schools where it works.

I think there are a lot of reasons why women won't looking at chapter X. If chapter X is having membership retention problems recruitment problems, I wouldn't fault a girl who decided they weren't for her. (I personally applaud women who take a chance on a smaller chapter, but if a woman doesn't want to put as much work into building her sorority, I think that's a legitimate choice.) but if the girl won't consider X because it doesn't have the biggest house, the prettiest girls, and the most awards ... maybe she's just shallow and wouldn't make the best member anyway. Then again, esp. in a small Greek system, a woman can rush and really not feel at home anywhere. She shouldn't join somewhere just to get the letters if she's not feeling it.

But there are things chapters can do. A couple of the major mistakes I've seen smaller/struggling chapters make:
1) "We're small, so we won't cut anyone, and we'll bid anyone." Rushees know if X is inviting back everyone, and they can smell desperation. Cut early and cut often.
2) "She will never join us, so let's not even bother rushing her." Unless she comes out and rudely says, "I'll only be a Mu, so screw you," you still have a chance.
3) Rush 24-7. Yes, in a sense rush is year-round. But rush events shouldn't be. Members need a break to enjoy just being sisters and build up their sisterhood.
4) "The other sororities are just bigger because they're full of snobby, conformist suck-ups. Let's do things differently." Way to bite the hand that feeds you! Rushees can see this for what it is - bitterness. And they want to be part of the system. "Yeah, maybe they're snobs," thinks a rushee, "but at least they have mixers and fun!" And the other chapters generally wish the best for your chapter and would like to help you out - until you start trashing them. If it turns into a war, guess who wins.