Death Penalty-Change your mind yet?

[Rudey]

I love the death penalty. You should all promote it. Seriously below is a list of men I wish I had killed. And let's not forget that there have been cases of people screwing with DNA evidence just to put those damn bastards away!

-Rudey
--Kill them all. It's our responsibility as educated leaders of the world.

No.* /Name/ State /Year of Conviction/ Year of Exoneration /Years between Conviction and Exoneration/ Race of Defendant /DNA**
1. David Keaton FL 1971 1973 2 B
2. Samuel A. Poole NC 1973 1974 1 B
3. Wilbert Lee FL 1963 1975 12 B
4. Freddie Pitts FL 1963 1975 12 B
5. James Creamer GA 1973 1975 2 W
6. Thomas Gladish NM 1974 1976 2 W
7. Richard Greer NM 1974 1976 2 W
8. Ronald Keine NM 1974 1976 2 W
9. Clarence Smith NM 1974 1976 2 W
10. Delbert Tibbs FL 1974 1977 3 B
11. Earl Charles GA 1975 1978 3 B
12. Jonathan Treadway AZ 1975 1978 3 W
13. Gary Beeman OH 1976 1979 3 W
14. Jerry Banks GA 1975 1980 5 B
15. Larry Hicks IN 1978 1980 2 B
16. Charles Ray Giddens OK 1978 1981 3 B
17. Michael Linder SC 1979 1981 2 W
18. Johnny Ross LA 1975 1981 6 B
19. Annibal Jaramillo FL 1981 1982 1 L
20. Lawyer Johnson MA 1971 1982 11 B
21. Anthony Brown FL 1983 1986 3 B
22. Neil Ferber PA 1982 1986 4 W
23. Clifford Henry Bowen OK 1981 1986 5 W
24. Joseph Green Brown FL 1974 1987 13 B
25. Perry Cobb IL 1979 1987 8 B
26. Darby (Williams) Tillis IL 1979 1987 8 B
27. Henry Drake GA 1977 1987 10 W
28. John Henry Knapp AZ 1974 1987 13 W
29. Vernon McManus TX 1977 1987 10 W
30. Anthony Ray Peek FL 1978 1987 9 B
31. Juan Ramos FL 1983 1987 4 L
32. Robert Wallace GA 1980 1987 7 B
33. Richard Neal Jones OK 1983 1987 4 W
34. Jerry Bigelow CA 1980 1988 8 W
35. Willie Brown FL 1983 1988 5 B
36. Larry Troy FL 1983 1988 5 B
37. William Jent FL 1980 1988 8 W
38. Earnest Miller FL 1980 1988 8 W
39. Randall Dale Adams TX 1977 1989 12 W
40. Jesse Keith Brown SC 1983 1989 6 W
41. Robert Cox FL 1988 1989 1 W
42. Timothy Hennis NC 1986 1989 3 W
43. James Richardson FL 1968 1989 21 B
44. Clarence Brandley TX 1981 1990 9 B
45. Patrick Croy CA 1979 1990 11 N
46. John C. Skelton TX 1983 1990 7 W
47. Dale Johnston OH 1984 1990 6 W
48. Jimmy Lee Mathers AZ 1987 1990 3 W
49. Gary Nelson GA 1980 1991 11 B
50. Bradley P. Scott FL 1988 1991 3 W
51. Charles Smith IN 1983 1991 8 B
52. Jay C. Smith PA 1986 1992 6 W
53. Kirk Bloodsworth MD 1984 1993 9 W Yes
54. Federico M. Macias TX 1984 1993 9 L
55. Walter McMillian AL 1988 1993 5 B
56. Gregory R. Wilhoit OK 1987 1993 6 W
57. James Robison AZ 1977 1993 16 W
58. Muneer Deeb TX 1985 1993 8 O
59. Andrew Golden FL 1991 1994 3 W
60. Joseph Burrows IL 1989 1994 5 W
61. Adolph Munson OK 1985 1995 10 B
62. Robert Charles Cruz AZ 1981 1995 14 L
63. Rolando Cruz IL 1985 1995 10 L Yes
64. Alejandro Hernandez IL 1985 1995 10 L Yes
65. Sabrina Butler MS 1990 1995 5 B
66. Verneal Jimerson IL 1985 1996 11 B Yes
67. Dennis Williams IL 1979 1996 17 B Yes
68. Roberto Miranda NV 1982 1996 14 L
69. Gary Gauger IL 1993 1996 3 W
70. Troy Lee Jones CA 1982 1996 14 B
71. Carl Lawson IL 1990 1996 6 B
72. Ricardo Aldape Guerra TX 1982 1997 15 L
73. Benjamin Harris WA 1985 1997 12 B
74. Robert Hayes FL 1991 1997 6 B
75. Randall Padgett AL 1992 1997 5 W
76. Robert Lee Miller, Jr. OK 1988 1998 10 B Yes
77. Curtis Kyles LA 1984 1998 14 B
78. Shareef Cousin LA 1996 1999 3 B
79. Anthony Porter IL 1983 1999 16 B
80. Steven Smith IL 1985 1999 14 B
81. Ronald Williamson OK 1988 1999 11 W Yes
82. Ronald Jones IL 1989 1999 10 B Yes
83. Clarence Dexter, Jr. MO 1991 1999 8 W
84. Warren Douglas Manning SC 1989 1999 10 B
85. Alfred Rivera NC 1997 1999 2 L
86. Steve Manning IL 1993 2000 7 W
87. Eric Clemmons MO 1987 2000 13 B
88. Joseph Nahume Green FL 1993 2000 7 B
89. Earl Washington VA 1984 2000 16 B Yes
90. William Nieves PA 1994 2000 6 L
91. Frank Lee Smith -died prior to exoneration FL 1986 2000 14 B Yes
92. Michael Graham LA 1987 2000 13 W
93. Albert Burrell LA 1987 2000 13 W
94. Peter Limone MA 1968 2001 33 W
95. Gary Drinkard AL 1995 2001 6 W
96. Joaquin Jose Martinez FL 1997 2001 4 L
97. Jeremy Sheets NE 1997 2001 4 W
98. Charles Fain ID 1983 2001 18 W Yes
99. Juan Roberto Melendez FL 1984 2002 18 L
100. Ray Krone AZ 1992 2002 10 W Yes
101. Thomas Kimbell, Jr. PA 1998 2002 4 W
102. Larry Osborne KY 1999 2002 3 W

[bcdphie]

We don't have capital punishment at all in Canada, but I am a firm believer in it. The are many people who deserve this fate like the following: recently 50 women have gone missing from Vancouver downtown's eastside so far 7 of the deaths have been tied to Willie Pickton

New murder charge laid against Pickton

canada.com

Wednesday, May 22, 2002

VANCOUVER - A seventh murder charge has been laid against Robert William Pickton in Vancouver's
missing women case.

The newest count accuses Pickton of the first-degree murder of Brenda Wolfe, who disappeared in early
1999 from Vancouver's downtown east side.

Wolfe, 32, wasn't reported missing until April 2000.

In February, police began searching Pickton's pig farm and the search was expanded last month to a
nearby property.

A seventh murder charge has been laid against Robert William
Pickton in Vancouver's missing women case.(CP)

Police investigators, who have been collecting DNA samples from
family members of the missing women, have said in the past they
have found human remains at the pig farm.

Police wouldn't say what evidence led them to lay the latest
charge against Pickton, nor would Vancouver police Det. Scott
Driemel say whether DNA was found.

Driemel said police are finalizing the hiring of about 50 specialists
in human osteology, a branch of archeology.

"The individuals who will be hired for a period ranging from a few
months to a year come from the academic and science community
in Canada,'' Driemel said.

They start work in the next few weeks.

Driemel wouldn't say what the scientists would be doing and he said they have signed confidentiality
agreements.

"The individuals have also been told - in very clear terms - that public disclosure about their work could
result in not only them getting fired but facing charges under relevant legislation,'' Driemel said.

There are about 80 investigators working for the joint RCMP-Vancouver city police task force investigating
the disappearances.

Investigators originally anticipated the search at Pickton's farm would take a few months but that estimate
has since increased. Officers will be at the farm for at least a year collecting evidence.

Peter Ritchie, lawyer for Robert Pickton
(CP/Richard Lam)

The women began disappearing in 1983. Thirty-nine of them have
gone missing in the last six years.

Family and friends have been highly critical of the way Vancouver
city police handled the disappearances prior to the RCMP joining
the investigation a year ago.

Community activists have complained that because most of the
women were prostitutes and addicted to drugs, they were treated
as throwaways by police who ignored concerns there may be a
serial killer prowling the poverty-stricken downtown eastside
neighbourhood.

However, the province's solicitor general has rejected calls for an inquiry into police handling of the case
while Pickton is before the courts. Many family members of the missing women complain police
repeatedly turned a blind eye to the disappearances.

Pickton, 52, will begin a preliminary hearing Nov. 4, 2002. He will appear in Port Coquitlam court on the
new charge tomorrow.

Six other counts of first-degree murder have been laid against Pickton in the last three months, since
police began searching his farm in Port Coquitlam.

Investigators are looking for 50 women who have disappeared from Vancouver's drug-infested downtown
east side in the last two decades.

Robert Pickton is also charged with first-degree murder in the deaths of:

- Mona Wilson, 26-years-old when she was last seen in November

- Serena Abotsway, 29-years-old when she disappeared in August 2001

- Jacqueline McDonell, 23-years-old when she was last seen in January 1999

- Diane Rock, 34-years-old when last seen in October 2001

- Heather Bottomley, 25-years-old when she disappeared in April 2001

- Andrea Joesbury, 22-years-old when last seen in June, 2001

© Copyright 2002 Canadian Press

[Rudey]

Yes the list I posted above includes many inmates that people like you thought deserved death. The issue I presented is not being addressed.

-Rudey
--You also have a donut shop on each street corner in Canada, but that's a whole other story.

Originally posted by bcdphie
We don't have capital punishment at all in Canada, but I am a firm believer in it. The are many people who deserve this fate like the following:

[justamom]

James wrote- Second: Why is an argument against children so much more terrible or such a rallying cry? Isn't it equally horrible if a house-wife is sodomized and killed? I think so . . or is only children being killed that y'all worry about?
FOR ME-
It's because in the case of children, they are completely unable to defend themselves-not a snowball's chance in hell.
Equal, but different in the sense that it is an incomprehensible act and we haven't been numbed to it by movies, new clips or such a frequency that it becomes a common occurrence...till this summer.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by justamom
James wrote- Second: Why is an argument against children so much more terrible or such a rallying cry? Isn't it equally horrible if a house-wife is sodomized and killed? I think so . . or is only children being killed that y'all worry about?
FOR ME-
It's because in the case of children, they are completely unable to defend themselves-not a snowball's chance in hell.
Equal, but different in the sense that it is an incomprehensible act and we haven't been numbed to it by movies, new clips or such a frequency that it becomes a common occurrence...till this summer.

In regards to the children case, I remember reading an article in the Atlantic Monthly that talked about how children and women are always brought up when someone wants to get their way. "Oh the poor children starving in Afghanistan and the women being oppressed..." vs. "There are many people in Afghanistan being denied their basic human rights...".

-Rudey
--Learn.

[chioangel83]

We say it's wrong to kill people. Yet our government turns around and does just that. That makes us hypocrites.
Look at the problems with the death penalty:
*The number of people who are released each year when new evidence proves they are innocent. Think of all those innocent people who died.
*The majority of people on death row or who have been executed are of ethnic minorities...hmmm. Does anyone else find that disturbing?
*It is too difficult to justify what deserves capital punishment. Every crime has varying degrees. Where do you draw the line?

I could go on and on.

I can't see the comfort in taking someone's life...even if they are a horrible criminal. These people are still human beings. They are someone's son or daughter, lover, friend, father or mother. Yes punish them. But don't kill them. If we do that, what are we teaching our society to become?

[justamom]

Just read that Louisiana has NO DNA data bank-You wouldthink after OJ they would have gotten a clue.

They are factins trying to make it a Federal law that the murder of anyone under 12 would result in the death penalty.

I agree, there can be mitigating circumstances and one punishment doesn't fit all. In SOME cases, I could accept hard-HARD labor (think worse than a chain gang) scientific experimentation (got that from Hubby) anything that would allow something of benefit to come out of their miserable life. Never EVER a chance of parole. I know this sound blood thirsty when the truth is I'm very tenderhearted in most aspects.
lifesaver-As a poli sci major with a minor in clutural anthropology, I see the uS eventually eliminating it, as a society growes older, it tends to liberalize, and that is one of the things that tends to go.... I have to SADLY agree with you on this point.

BTW-Where is KA Billy??? Just thought I'd throw that in.

[Rudey]

You're presenting two lines of argument. One is for the ideal and the other is the reality. The reality is a system where humans are in charge...flawed simply because we're human. Flaws include improper motivations, corrupt agents, outlying factors, and the inability to properly assess and determine guilt of an accused. Even the guilty can avoid such a penalty through their own influence - money and fame do help, leaving the poor to fend for themselves.

The ideal is a system where prosecutors do not have outside motives, politicians are not greedy, outlying factors are determined and adjusted for or eliminated, and guilt is properly determined.

In the ideal, then the argument is whether death can befit anyone as determine by an entire system or society (no longer certain people or influential groups). It is no longer about the "death penalty" which indicates our present situation. This is too complicated an issue to deal with on here. Nobody can come up with a proper answer to it, and many the philosopher has tried.

But then again, in such an ideal world, I'm sure we wouldn't have crime to begin with. This entire argument of whether anyone can do something to deserve death or whether a society can punish them as such is null and void.

-Rudey
--You're human, accept it...for the women and children.

Originally posted by chioangel83
We say it's wrong to kill people. Yet our government turns around and does just that. That makes us hypocrites.
Look at the problems with the death penalty:
*The number of people who are released each year when new evidence proves they are innocent. Think of all those innocent people who died.
*The majority of people on death row or who have been executed are of ethnic minorities...hmmm. Does anyone else find that disturbing?
*It is too difficult to justify what deserves capital punishment. Every crime has varying degrees. Where do you draw the line?

I could go on and on.

I can't see the comfort in taking someone's life...even if they are a horrible criminal. These people are still human beings. They are someone's son or daughter, lover, friend, father or mother. Yes punish them. But don't kill them. If we do that, what are we teaching our society to become?

[Rudey]

Would DNA solve our problems? Is the DNA handled by a human? Said human could never tamper with such evidence, could they (Which has occured with a severe case in one state alone)? What about certain groups that tend to get punished more with the death penalty for the same crime? I don't mean that there are more of one group than another on death row, I mean percentage wise, for the same crime, certain groups end up getting punished more.

-Rudey

Originally posted by justamom
Just read that Louisiana has NO DNA data bank-You wouldthink after OJ they would have gotten a clue.

They are factins trying to make it a Federal law that the murder of anyone under 12 would result in the death penalty.

I agree, there can be mitigating circumstances and one punishment doesn't fit all. In SOME cases, I could accept hard-HARD labor (think worse than a chain gang) scientific experimentation (got that from Hubby) anything that would allow something of benefit to come out of their miserable life. Never EVER a chance of parole. I know this sound blood thirsty when the truth is I'm very tenderhearted in most aspects.
lifesaver-As a poli sci major with a minor in clutural anthropology, I see the uS eventually eliminating it, as a society growes older, it tends to liberalize, and that is one of the things that tends to go.... I have to SADLY agree with you on this point.

BTW-Where is KA Billy??? Just thought I'd throw that in.

[justamom]

Rudey-Very good post. (Do I know you by another name?)
A lot of truth in what you said!

[Rudey]

Originally posted by justamom
Rudey-Very good post. (Do I know you by another name?)
A lot of truth in what you said!

No you know me as Rudey. I played football for Notre Dame back in the day. Now I spend time on GC hoping Wahine hates me or trying to make inappropriate sexual remarks.

-Rudey
--Oh and I like long walks on the beach...naked.

[Tom Earp]

I have been a Steet Cop!

I am proud to say that back in the late 60 / 70's I did not beat anyone! The Asswhole who tried to run over me and my partner was lucky he was not shot!

It was unneccersary as when we talked they listened!

I went to Infenral Asswholes 3 times! Rat Squad!

Proved true 3 times!

There maybe always Asswholes that do stupid things like Inglewood Cal.!

I actually ended up not likeing to be a Detectice as was not working with the peoiple.

Some starnge stories but most mine!

You guys are mostly above that so stay above it!

The jail house food sucks!


You live, then maybe you can learn!

[vanda]

I am totally and completely against the death penalty.

Being from Chicago,I have read of so many men convicted and later set free. To hear one man tell his story of them waking him up in the middle of the night and guards dragging him out of his bed telling him "it's time" and he's scared and the guards get a good laugh out of it is heart wrenching. Death is final. What if someone comes forward after someone has been wrongly executed? What can you do? There's no compensation for that. On the other hand, is there any rehabilitation out there for these kind of vicious criminals that are put on death row?

There's also the aspect of those that hand down the sentence are not the ones who are there to carry out the execution. I don't know how the warden at Texas' prisons sleep when they have so many back to back executions. I know it would mess with me for a long while after one but two or three in one week?

I think every state should take a long hard look at their system and find new means to solve this problem.

[Katey Alpha Gam]

first, thank you Lifesaver for my favorite quote about the death penalty and anything else that "eye for an eye" refers to. I am totally and completely against the death penalty for 4 very distinct reasons 1. A lot of the time they kill the wrong person, that isn't justice-it's ludacris and it's usually pinned on african american males who BY FAR have more death sentences than their white counterparts 2. Studies have shown that the death penalty does NOT deter violent crimes 3. Economically it costs more to have someone on Death Row than in prison for life 4. I think it is sick and wrong that people feel good about killing someone else in that you are justified. All you did was the same thing they did, tho supposedly in a more "humane" way (which is BS b/c I would certianly pick being shot and killed instantly than to smell my own burning flesh before I die, or to feel poison slowly kill me. Do you know that they anesthetize prisoners before the lethal injection so that it's easier to witness????)

I am SO GLAD that I live in a state with no Death Penalty!!

[DWAlphaGam]

Originally posted by shadokat
I'm sorry, but if you deliberately kill someone and had that intent before it happened, then you should face the same fate.

Here in Philadelphia, we've had two little girls get kidnapped lately. One was the girl who chewed through the duct tape and escaped. The other one was killed by her stepmother's brother. Fry that bastard DAMMIT! Also, a young woman was missing for like a week, and the police suspected the woman's boyfriend...finally, after a whole bunch of bullshit, he takes them to her dead body. Hang him HIGH!! Finally, some sicko slid through the bars on a first floor apartment window, raped the two girls inside, then had some breakfast, watched some TV, made some phone calls and stole their mac cards. Then, the asshole goes and tries to use the mac card. When they find this guy, please remove his penis!

I'm definitely feeling you there, shadokat. I'm not too happy about starting my nighttime grad school classes in the city while all of this is happening. It really makes me want to stay in my little suburban haven.

BTW, I am for the death penalty, but only after a very extensive investigation. Also only for very brutal/premeditated crimes. If some sick bastard rapes and kills a little kid, I don't believe in putting him up in basically a hotel where he gets free food, free cable, free access to a gym, free school, etc. How is that punishment? People who do things like that should not be allowed to exist anymore.