christianity in ritual? - Page 2

Optimist Prime · #16 07-12-2002, 12:04 PM

My founding fathers were Episcapalion, but we're not an episcapalion fraternity. My ritual is none of you business. We were founded to be good men. That is all you need to know.

#17 07-12-2002, 12:32 PM

All I will say is that we do reference God.

We have sisters who are athiest, who abstain from those parts of ritual and activities, which is perfectly fine, but sometimes I wonder if they feel "put on the spot"... we were such a small chapter that it was VERY noticeable when someone doesn't participate.

HelloKitty22 · #18 07-12-2002, 01:13 PM

You may want to consider whether you have a problem with Christian values and references to Jesus and God or whether you just don't want to actually have to say any Christian prayers. I'm an agnostic greek and don't have a problem with any organization founded on Christian values ("love thy neighbor as thyself" and that sort of general stuff) but would have a real problem if I was asked to actually practice Christiananity or to pray to Jesus (like in a Christian sorority). My advice would be to clarify exactly what would make you uncomfortable and then ask the girls whether they expect you to participate in a way in which you would prefer not to. Also ask if they participate in any Christian activities as a sisterhood (for example do the sisters go to church together regularly and would they find it strange if you didn't?). GLO's want you to be where you feel comfortable and happy. Most sororities do their best not to be religiously exclusive, even ones which identify themselves with a certain religious philosophy.

scaredperson · #19 07-12-2002, 02:07 PM

thanks, HelloKitty, I think that's what i'll do.

OptimistPrime, i didn't ask for your ritual. i don't want to know anybody's ritual. i just want to know if i'd have to say prayers if i joined a sorority.

jharb · #20 07-12-2002, 07:47 PM

A lot of sororities and fraternities have christian refrences in their ritual unless the GLO was founded on specific principles. Most of the people who joined/founded the early GLOs were christians...so it would follow that christianity would be reflected in the ritual!

Jess

CutiePie2000 · #21 07-12-2002, 08:13 PM

Scared,
1) I honestly do not think you should fret. Thousands of people have been initiated before you...if there was a religious conflict to your principles, don't you think another would have addressed it a long time ago?

2) Robert Egan addresses this very subject in "From Here to Fraternity"..he writes:
God, Man and Fraternity

Pledges often wonder whether they must admit to a belief in the Big Guy (God, the Almighty, the Creator) during initiation. Yes and No. Yes, some rituals may mention the word God, since many were founded during more traditional times, but no, almost no rituals (according to one study) ask outrightly in the pledge actually believes in Him (or Her).

The rule of thumb is this: If the ritual mentions God, and you are a nonbeliever, either pretend you didn't hear it, or think of God as atoms, love, or a sunny day at the beach, say the stock phrases; and worry about your principles later, such as after the initiation party, after you leave college, or when you reach the Gates of Heaven. Everybody does.

Take it as you will......

3) American money says "In God We Trust". I am kind of surprised that there hasn't been a motion to get that changed, since America is such a diverse country with different religions, beliefs etc.

orchid2 · #22 07-12-2002, 09:29 PM

FYI, Phi Mu is founded on Christian principals... just look at our creed:

"...To reverence God as our maker, striving to serve him in all things..."

Examine symbols and creeds. You'll probably get quite a bit of information as to what the organization is based on just from that alone.

PenguinTrax · #23 07-13-2002, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by orchid2
FYI, Phi Mu is founded on Christian principals... just look at our creed:

"...To reverence God as our maker, striving to serve him in all things..."

Examine symbols and creeds. You'll probably get quite a bit of information as to what the organization is based on just from that alone.

Christians aren't the only ones that believe in G-d. However, Christians are the only ones that believe in Jesus Christ.

Phi Mu may have been founded on Christian principles, but you cannot learn that from your creed. You can learn that you believe in a diety.

AXO Alum · #24 07-14-2002, 08:32 PM

Alpha Chi Omega absolutely doesn't refer to Jesus, Christianity, or to any other religion in any of our dealings. It is stated time and again before any time of formal organization (ie, meeting, ritual, ceremonies, etc.) that it is not to be viewed as a religious event. I have sisters of many faiths, so I think that anyone should and would be comfortable.

Our Symphony best describes to the outer world what we believe in and strive for as AXO's. Hope this helps!

DeltaBetaBaby · #25 07-16-2002, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by orchid2
FYI, Phi Mu is founded on Christian principals... just look at our creed:

"...To reverence God as our maker, striving to serve him in all things..."

Examine symbols and creeds. You'll probably get quite a bit of information as to what the organization is based on just from that alone.

Barbara is correct on this one. I am a Jewish Phi Mu, and I know many others. If you would be comfortable saying our open creed, you would be comfortable participating in our ritual.

orchid2 · #26 07-16-2002, 07:58 PM

I stand corrected!

kddani · #27 07-18-2002, 09:06 AM

I do have to say that it's not a big deal. KD is founded on Christian principles, but in no way is religion ever pressed upon you. There have been many non-christian women initiated, especially within my own chapter. I don't think it's fair to think that people should be scared away by it. It's not a big deal at all, if anything.
There's also a lot of different definitions of "christian". I'm Catholic. I have heard some people say that Catholics aren't Christians. Probably half my chapter is Catholic, that's just the demographics that make up the area.
No GLO that you join should press religion upon you.

FuzzieAlum · #28 07-21-2002, 12:37 AM

I think what Leslie Ann is saying makes a lot of sense. I'm agnostic, and that's never made a difference to me as an Alpha Xi Delta. But when I was initiated into Order of Omega, I was surprised to find out one of the things I had to testify to was a belief in God. I felt very uncomfortable with that - especially as I didn't think a "general" org like that would expect me to swear to a belief that is not common to all Greeks. I think it has lessened my belief in the organization - I feel like I'm cheating by being a member.

On the other hand, I have no problem with precepts derived from religion. Love, kindness, fairness, respect, etc. - even if they're backed up with a quote from a holy book. After all, I don't want a sister who is against sisterliness!

I do think that if I had gotten to initiation for my sorority and found out I was accepting principles I didn't fully believe in, it would have lessened my experience as a sister.

Optimist Prime · #29 07-23-2002, 11:29 AM

Scared Person I didn't mean that the way it came across. Um...let me see...Our Creed ends with "serving my God, my Country and my fellow man." The emphaisis should be placed on MY. We love our brothers no matter what their beliefs are. We've had christian, jewish, muslim, hindu (i think) buddhist, pagan, etc. brothers. There is room for us all.

Rudey · #30 07-23-2002, 09:22 PM

In regards to US currency, people have brought cases into court on that matter. The final ruling was that it was used so often that it no longer was a religious statement, if I remember correctly.

And I'll be honest, that Robert Egan quote about the rule of thumb bothers me...

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
Scared,
1) I honestly do not think you should fret. Thousands of people have been initiated before you...if there was a religious conflict to your principles, don't you think another would have addressed it a long time ago?

2) Robert Egan addresses this very subject in "From Here to Fraternity"..he writes:
God, Man and Fraternity

Pledges often wonder whether they must admit to a belief in the Big Guy (God, the Almighty, the Creator) during initiation. Yes and No. Yes, some rituals may mention the word God, since many were founded during more traditional times, but no, almost no rituals (according to one study) ask outrightly in the pledge actually believes in Him (or Her).

The rule of thumb is this: If the ritual mentions God, and you are a nonbeliever, either pretend you didn't hear it, or think of God as atoms, love, or a sunny day at the beach, say the stock phrases; and worry about your principles later, such as after the initiation party, after you leave college, or when you reach the Gates of Heaven. Everybody does.

Take it as you will......

3) American money says "In God We Trust". I am kind of surprised that there hasn't been a motion to get that changed, since America is such a diverse country with different religions, beliefs etc.