"Required" public service? Is it hazing?

[italianaxo]

First of all I completely disagree with the premise that a public high school cannot require you to do anything non academic. Schools are designed to produce productive members of society, not only to impart facts. Schools do not require enough of their students, nor do they give enough support. A well designed community service programs enhances students knowledge of the world and ability to work with others.
We have so many problems in todays society that it is ridiculous to absolve schools of any responsibility and prevent them from helping students in a non academic manner.

When thinking about whether this is right or wrong do not forget that these students also really do help people whether they like it or not. Last year my mother was sick and my family (my mom, sisters, and me) was moving but we couldn't afford movers. Two high school boys helped us move to fulfill part of their community service requirement. We honestly could not have done it without them. Sure had their high school not required public service these kids would not have volunteered but they really did make a difference and help us through a difficult time.
10 hours of community service won't hurt anyone and can actually matter to others.

[KEPike]

If in some weird, misconstrued way doing community service and doing good for others could EVER be seen as hazing, then I will say:

"Thank you sir, may I have another!"

[squirrely girl]

my continuing two-cents -

i also have to look at the private vs public school issue. i have always looked at a private school education as better than public (even though i got a perfectly fine public education). a lot of parents of school children (especially in ohio) are complaining that public schools aren't cutting it and want vouchers for private ones.

i think that mandating "public service" <---- not "forced volunteering, cause there is a difference> for hs grads is just one more way that some private schools are getting ahead of the public schools.

i completely agree with italianaxo -

/////Schools are designed to produce productive members of society, not only to impart facts. Schools do not require enough of their students, nor do they give enough support. A well designed community service programs enhances students knowledge of the world and ability to work with others. ////


too many kids come out of hs today without a sense of the world. i grew up in a great neighborhood - but through public service i was able to see first-hand the rest of the world.

and i definetely agree with some of the other posts. sounds like a whiny hs student who doesn't want to put down his PS2 long enough to rake some leaves at a park. WAH WAH. do it.

marissa

[33girl]

Originally posted by italianaxo
First of all I completely disagree with the premise that a public high school cannot require you to do anything non academic. Schools are designed to produce productive members of society, not only to impart facts.

I don't agree - it's the PARENTS' job to produce productive members of society. Start telling schools that's their job, and your child's values and beliefs will be formed by their teachers, not their parents and family - do you really want to give the school that kind of power? Maybe if you're a lazy parent you do, but I personally do not.

Oh, and if the kids are sitting on their asses in front of Play Station, perhaps the PARENTS (are you seeing my theme here?) should detach them from the couch.

[CrucialCrimson]

I don't have a problem with it in public or private schools if it is tied to a course - in that case it would be no different than an internship that you don't get paid for but get experience or some sort of credit. I'm probably a little older than many of you but I remember a time when just about everyone in high school did some sort of community service - I was the cutest candy striper on the ward!!! It really helped me get ready for the world of work and I felt good about helping people. But I don't think you just send folks somewhere and have them log in hours - there should be some sort of course or workshop that meets each marking period or maybe even each week to help them process the experiences.

[DeeGeePee]

Originally posted by italianaxo
First of all I completely disagree with the premise that a public high school cannot require you to do anything non academic. Schools are designed to produce productive members of society, not only to impart facts. Schools do not require enough of their students, nor do they give enough support. A well designed community service programs enhances students knowledge of the world and ability to work with others.
We have so many problems in todays society that it is ridiculous to absolve schools of any responsibility and prevent them from helping students in a non academic manner.

Well, I have to agree with italianaxo. To actually think that the schools have absolutely no responsibility in preparing these kids for life is pure stupidity. I am both a parent and a future teacher, and I can tell you, its both of their responsibilties. Yes above all eles, the parent is responsible for teaching their children the ways of the world and how to be a productive citizen. But I think that its also the teachers job to reinterate what the parents teach by having them utilize their education IN the world. School is a big social arena, where most kids first get exposed to "life", so to think that its not important to TEACH what they need to do in school just doesn't make sense. I had to complete 32 hours to graduate, and it wasn't a big deal. Having kids to do that is not slave labor, it having them do something for someone other than themselves for a change. Even if they don't wanna do it, which most don't, they help people, and 9 times outa 10, they end up learning something about people and themselves.

To consider it hazing makes me wonder about the mind set of this world. If you get drunk at a social and get sick, is that hazing cuz your GLO sponsored it? Is it hazing if you stay up all night to cram for finals so you can have a 2.5 and be active next semester? No. That's ridiculous. When you pledge an organization, you find out all that will be required of you. If you have a problem with the requirements, then don't pledge. If a GLO has a service requirement (as mine does, 15 hours a semester, we ARE a service sorority) and you fell that helping the people of your community is going to cause you detremental damage, then don't pledge it. You have the choice to join or not. Each GLO can require what they want. But it is not hazing to have people help their fellow man. I mean really!

[TKE_EO303]

Oh, how silly. How can anyone be against forcing people to do community service. Personally, I feel we would be much better off if everyone in this country was forced to do community service. Kind of like a military draft. We would all be better off for it. I think 10 hours for public graduation is a good start. But it is not near enough. I think you need at least 8320 hours before you can receive a high school diploma. Same for a college degree. So before you can have a college degree, you must accumulate 16, 640 hours. Think about how much better off we will be if this was a national requirement. (doubts anyone will get his real point)

Now, since this is greek life and not chit chat, I'll close with the thought that GLOs are voluntary organizations. No one has to join one. If you don't like your GLO's mandated service, then don't join.

My two cents,

Jack

[DeltAlum]

We should all read and consider carefully what James wrote -- I think he has a pretty good grip on this situation.

Under the strictest interpretation -- the silly one we deal with daily -- anything you are "forced" to do can be considered hazing. So, "forced" community service could be labled as such.

Please notice he also said that he has no problem with students being required to perform such duties. Nor do I. Our son just graduated from high school and had 350 or so hours and got a cute little pin from the President's Council on something. He enjoyed what he did and helped the community.

I agree with his other point also. If a curriculum requires X hours of community service -- that's not volunteerism. But, it's still a good thing and benefits the community. There is a difference between the two. You can't be forced to volunteer -- the terms are mutually exclusive.

In terms of the Greek World, if anyone accepts a bid to an organization without knowing that philanthrophy (community service) is expected of them, either they aren't listening, or the chapter is doing a poor job during the recruiting process. That kind of thing should be spelled out upfront. If you don't want to do the service, don't accept the bid.

[ThielGirlie]

At my school certain Christian organizations (non-greek) I belong to require a certain amount of community service to get funding from the school. It's hard to think that the Christian Fellowship organization I belong to on campus would be "hazing" us by having us build houses for the homeless. Oy...

[wvapogirl]

So, public schools can force you to learn "teamwork" by making you play dodgeball and crab soccer in phys-ed, but when it comes to learning 'compassion' and 'helping others' by doing community service, people start throwing hissy fits! Something here is MAJORLY f***ed up!

[DeeGeePee]

Originally posted by wvapogirl
So, public schools can force you to learn "teamwork" by making you play dodgeball and crab soccer in phys-ed, but when it comes to learning 'compassion' and 'helping others' by doing community service, people start throwing hissy fits! Something here is MAJORLY f***ed up!

PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[madmax]

I dont think high schools or colleges should require community service. If administrators think public service is so important then how come they dont make their own members participate for the same exact reasons that they want the students to participate?

When is the last time you saw a group of profs or high school administrators cleaning the side of a highway?

[DeeGeePee]

Originally posted by madmax
I dont think high schools or colleges should require community service. If administrators think public service is so important then how come they dont make their own members participate for the same exact reasons that they want the students to participate?

When is the last time you saw a group of profs or high school administrators cleaning the side of a highway?

VERY true, but that doesn't mean students can't do it, although you make a very valid point.

[FuzzieAlum]

But students at a PUBLIC high school should not be required to do community service, any more than they should be required to be in extracurricular activities or play sports. You can't make something that is non-academic part of an academic degree.

Schools require PE ... not academic. They require sex ed to keep us from being teenage moms ... not academic. They require drivers ed ... great for the DMV, but not academic.

Schools are not there just to teach us academics. They are there to make us responsible, productive adult citizens. In my parents' day they had "citizenship" classes. I suppose the modern equivalent is the personal finance and social studies classes I took. And schools are being forced to take on parenting roles as many parents abdicate theirs. It may be mom and dad's job to teach little Suzi not to get pregnant at 14, but when we have moms who are locking their toddlers in the car to fry while they get their hair done, who can blame the school for trying to provide a little of what's missing at home?

"Requiring something" is NOT HAZING. In that case, life is hazing me by forcing me to breathe! Lemme sue! "Hazing" means requiring demeaning or harmful activity as a requirement of admission into or continued membership in an organization or institution. If a high school requires students to walk around naked except for a coating of whipped cream, that's hazing. Pulling weeds is a different story. Community service should be neither harmful nor demeaning. If it is, the school needs to re-evaluate what sort of community service it's requiring. Obviously, a good program would give students a choice of organizations to serve and different means to do it. And to avoid an appearance of conflict of interest, service to that school should be avoided.

[dzandiloo]

I didn't read this whole thread, but I hear what Fuzzie's saying.

I will say one thing also--community service is increasingly becoming the thing that sets kids apart in college admissions...in Texas especially, since they passed the law requiring public universities to accept any applicant in the top 10% of their class--regardless of qualifications. My SIL's mom is involved in the admissions process at Texas A&M UNiversity & this law has made their admission process more cut-throat than ever (and this is true of UT and other state schools as well). This past year they had to really start looking at things above athletics & good grades b/c they are being overtaken with applications. It is no longer enough to go to a big name prep school & get great grades, if you aren't in the top 10% in TX, you better have some SERIOUS community service on your resume.