Lowering the Drinking Age?

[ROWDYsister]

Originally posted by chicagoagd
Would you allow your child to drive a car without first teaching her how to drive? The drinking age needs to be lowered in order for parents to take responsibility for teaching their kids how to drink.

Such a good point! Think about it...if a kid who's never been exposed to alcohol before (binge drinking is not as prevalent in high school) goes off to college and doesn't even have an interest in drinking, there's a chance they'll want to try it out, anyway. The first time they drink they're surrounded by other kids who drink past their limits and then they think it's normal and they should learn to do it. If they've had some access to alcohol while they're still living at home, they might be better off.

At least with 18-year-olds some are still in high school, so if they come home trashed their parents will know about it and will be able to address the situation. I started drinking my senior year but never came home drunk...I knew when to stop. Now in college when I'm around new people in different situations, I know how much will make me buzzed or totally wrecked. There are so many new things to deal with when you first go off to college...experimenting with alcohol is too risky for overwhelmed kids.

Plus when you turn 21, I don't think many parents bring up the subject with their kids anymore, b/c by that time the kids are sophomores or juniors and they've probably already had the "It's my life, I've been away from home, I'm an adult now" talk.

18 would be a good age.

ps: I'm trying to remember what the statistics are about alcohol related deaths and accidents since the drinking age was raised. I'm pretty sure they told us at the mandatory programming the Greek community had at my school last fall. I'll check it out.

[LeslieAGD]

I see your point, but I don't feel that the car analogy works because there's an age limit on driving too.

[ROWDYsister]

Originally posted by LeslieAGD
I see your point, but I don't feel that the car analogy works because there's an age limit on driving too.

But your parents teach you how to drive responsibly, and they do it over a period of time. You don't learn how to drive with your friends or random kids, like you would learn how to deal with alcohol.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally posted by ROWDYsister
But your parents teach you how to drive responsibly, and they do it over a period of time.

Again, I see your point, but not really. Many parents just send their kids off to drivers' ed. Most teens probably spend more time driving around with their pals than learning from their parents.

[ROWDYsister]

Scary statistics from site for Leadership to Keep Children Alcohol Free (dedicated to keeping alcohol away from kids 9-15): I know the issue is involving college-age kids, but still...

Seventy-one percent of eighth graders and 88 percent of tenth graders believe that alcohol is readily available to them for consumption.

Forty percent of ninth-grade students reported having consumed alcohol before they were age 13. In contrast, only 27 percent of ninth graders reported having smoked cigarettes, and 13 percent reported having used marijuana before they were age 13.2

Forty-one percent of ninth-grade students reported drinking in the past month, while only 28 percent reported smoking in the past month.

Almost one-fourth of eighth graders and one-half of tenth graders have been drunk at least once.

One-fifth of ninth graders reported binge drinking (having had five or more drinks on one occasion) in the past month.

Rates of drinking differ among racial and ethnic minority groups. Among ninth graders, binge drinking was reported by 27 percent of non-Hispanic, white students; 30 percent of Hispano/Latino students; 15 percent of African-American students; and 5 percent of Asian-Pacific Islander students.

The gap between alcohol use by boys and girls has closed. Among ninth graders, girls consume alcohol and binge drink at rates equal to boys.

More than 40 percent of individuals who start drinking before the age of 13 will develop alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence at some point in their lives.

*If drinking is delayed until age 21, a child's risk of serious alcohol problems is decreased by 70 percent.*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Makes me rethink my stand on lowering the drinking age, but I still believe parents should address this with their children like they do with sex or drugs, etc. and supervise their first exposures to drinking.http://www.alcoholfreechildren.org/

[ROWDYsister]

Sorry to inundate you with statistics, but with a topic like this, facts are important...

BTW, it wasn't stated within this document, but I'm guessing 1982 is the year they raised the drinking age? Sounds like it.

Percentage of College Freshmen Who Drink Beer Frequently or Occasionally
Survey results indicate that the percentage of college freshmen who report drinking beer frequently or occasionally is 34 percent lower in 2000 than in 1982.
Source: The American Freshman Survey, sponsored by UCLA and the American Council on Education and conducted by the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA’s Graduate School of Education & Information Studies

Total Fatalities in Drunk-Driving Crashes
The number of people killed in drunk-driving crashes has declined 31 percent since 1990 and 41 percent since 1982.
Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, U.S. Department of Transportation, 2000.

Total Fatalities in Teen Drunk-Driving Crashes
The number of people killed in crashes involving drunk teenage drivers (ages 16-20) decreased 64 percent from 1982-1999.
Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, U.S. Department of Transportation, 2000.http://www.nbwa.org/advocates/statistics.html

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I think that the age should be lowered to 18.
When I was in high school and college, the law in New York State made the purchase of alcohol under 21 a crime. I never purchased alcohol so I didn't break any law. One month before I turned 21, the legislature changed the law to make the consumption of alcohol under 21 a crime. It was supposed to make a difference. All it did was limit the social lives of everyone under 21. It didn't stop those who wanted to drink from doing so.

[FuzzieAlum]

This is just anecdotal, of course, but ...

The kids I knew who had never drunk (esp. those who said self-rightously "I will NEVER drink") were the ones who drank the hardest when they got to college.

The kids I knew who had drunk a little, with their parents, may have drunk illegally when they got to college, but tended not to binge-drink.

Forbidden fruit is the most desired ...

[Kevin]

The only thing you do by making it illegal is to force people to do it behind closed doors and without regulations such as a bartender that cuts you off.

Let's be real... Just because it's illegal doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I personally think if you are able to be drafted and killed in the name of your country, they should at least allow you to buy beer.

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by ROWDYsister
Sorry to inundate you with statistics, but with a topic like this, facts are important...

BTW, it wasn't stated within this document, but I'm guessing 1982 is the year they raised the drinking age? Sounds like it.

Percentage of College Freshmen Who Drink Beer Frequently or Occasionally
Survey results indicate that the percentage of college freshmen who report drinking beer frequently or occasionally is 34 percent lower in 2000 than in 1982.
Source: The American Freshman Survey, sponsored by UCLA and the American Council on Education and conducted by the Higher Education Research Institute at UCLA’s Graduate School of Education & Information Studies

Total Fatalities in Drunk-Driving Crashes
The number of people killed in drunk-driving crashes has declined 31 percent since 1990 and 41 percent since 1982.
Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, U.S. Department of Transportation, 2000.

Total Fatalities in Teen Drunk-Driving Crashes
The number of people killed in crashes involving drunk teenage drivers (ages 16-20) decreased 64 percent from 1982-1999.
Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, U.S. Department of Transportation, 2000.http://www.nbwa.org/advocates/statistics.html

Good statistics, but the drinking age 21+ thing happened in 86/87 I believe and was implemented over the next 2 -3 years, because the way our constitution is written, the Fed Govmt cant pass those laws, it has to be done by the states, but the feds controll the purse strings for things like highway dollars. Ya want your $$? Lower the drinking age... Or so they say. It took a few years for state legislatures to write the laws. Some states, like LA are still batteling the issue.

SOOO, its a bit erroneous to use the '82 start date for comparison of stats. Since the fed age thing happened in 86 - ya cant use the above stats to dircetly prove your claims.

ALSO - the stats above are UNDER the curreent system, so ya gotta expect a slight raise in problems until the persona of the culture changes. The problem is the rules, NOT the culture. Change the rules, the culture will change. its simple as that.

[Rudey]

"Based on statistics compiled by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA), "alcohol-related"(1) traffic fatalities for people under 21 dropped by 43% (from 5,062 alcohol-related fatalities to 2,883) during the years 1987 through 1996.(2) This should be seen in the context of a 28% drop in alcohol-related traffic fatalities in the general population. From 1982 through 1986 when minimum purchasing and public possession age laws varied from 18 to 21, alcohol-related traffic fatalities for people under 21 dropped by 14% (from 6,329 alcohol-related fatalities to 5,455).(3) Alcohol-related traffic fatalities for the general population during this period dropped by 4%. In NHSTA's view, the minimum 21 age laws "have had greater impact over the years as the drinking ages in the states have increased, affecting more drivers aged 18 to 20."(4)"

What do people think of this?

Also, in regards to Europe where the drinking age is lower, the WHO (World Health Organization) conducted a study stating:

"Britain, with few abstainers even in its adult population, is notable for the low numbers of adolescents who have never tried a drink. Well under 10% of 13-year-olds say they have never had alcohol. In addition, one in seven English boys aged 11, one in four Welsh boys of 13 and around a half of 15-year-old boys in England and Wales drink wine, spirit or beer once a week, putting them among the highest youthful consumers in Europe.

Cees Goos, WHO regional adviser for alcohol, drugs and tobacco, said: "We are receiving signals from all across the region that many young people are turning to alcohol as a drug. There is an increase in high-risk drinking, such as binge-drinking and drunkenness."

Europe under the influence

Belgium
6% of workers have drink problem; 40% of violent crime and vandalism linked to alcohol

Denmark
Drink-related deaths doubled 1970 -94 despite national consumption stagnating since 1983

Finland
Nearly half male and one in five female suicides involve alcohol abusers

France
40% of fatal traffic accidents - 4,000 deaths a year - and overall 43,000 deaths, 9% of total, linked to drink in 1997

Germany
2.7m people between 19 and 69 misuse alcohol. Alcohol-related mortality estimated at 40,000 a year

Hungary
Cirrhosis among men rose from 19 per 100,000 in 1970 to 208.8 in 1994

Norway
80% of crimes of violence, 60% of rapes, arson and vandalism committed under influence

Poland
1,446 fatal alcohol poisonings in 1996

Russia
40% of men and 17% of women suffer from alcoholism

Spain
25% of domestic violence drink-related

Sweden
87% of attempted suicides attributed to alcohol in 1992

United Kingdom
50% of violent crime, 65% of attempted suicides linked to alcohol; 33,000 deaths a year linked to drink in England and Wales alone


So these countries with lower drinking age minimums faced a lot of problems. America which increased its drinking age minimum, benefited it seems in the sense of less accidents. Of course, this doesn't address countries where there is no minimum at all, but I just wanted your thoughts on it.

-Rudey

[Kevin]

The period that they kept those statistics though.. They started in 1970!??

I seriously have to believe that these stats are pretty skewed due to the fact that in those days these types of things usually weren't reported and wouldn't make it to the statistic books.

And really these numbers I'll bet aren't too far off from the US.

[ZTAngel]

I think a lot of the reason why college campuses have so many problems with alcohol is actually because alcohol is illegal to those under the age of 21.
Maybe this statistic has nothing to do with alcohol but I will use it anyway. It has been said that if a person does not start smoking by the time they are 18, they most likely never will. Why is that? I think a lot of that has to do with the legal age of purchasing cigarettes is 18. Once someone is of legal age, the thrill is lost. I believe the same goes for alcohol.
Sure, the first few months of being 21 are fun. You can go to a restaurant and order a drink, you can go to parties and not worry that the cops will bother you, and you can get into all the dance clubs. But, the fun eventually wears off. Now that I'm 21, I find that I drink less than I did back when I was 18-20. And there are many people I've talked who are the same way. My roommate and I were discussing it earlier today and she said, "Wow...I was so dumb when I was a freshman. I went out every night and got drunk. Now, that I'm 21, it's just not as fun anymore." The thrill of doing something illegal and the fear of getting caught heightens the appeal of alcohol. I believe that lowering the drinking age may actually prevent some of the binge drinking occurences on campuses.

[DeltAlum]

When I was in college, the drinking age for "low" beer (3.2% alcohol by volume) was 18. The age for anything else was 21.

So, I drank in high school. And figured out ways to get liquor and wine before I was 21.

So, I suspect that if the drinking age were to be lowered, we would be seeing statistics about how many more high schoolers were drinking.

I'm also a little leary about the surveys. How many respondees are truthful? It's "cool" to break the rules when you're a teenager. It certainly isn't difficult to claim that your totally blitzed nightly at age 15 -- even if you've never touched a drop of alcohol. You simply fill in the right spot on the survey.

Back to The Garden of Eden -- whether you believe that story to be fact or fiction -- the way to make people desire something is to forbid them from having it. Remember, an apple a day...oh well.

I think it would be a good idea to allow beer consumption at age 18. A fraternity chapter advisor I know who is also a city attorney agrees. Of course, that's only opinion -- but a somewhat learned one in his case.

By the way, quit whining. Before 1968, you could be drafted, but weren't allowed to vote. And, yes, a whole lot of us were drafted.

Which, of course, brought about some of the neatest signs and bumper stickers, "Draught beer, not students."

Finally, I'll bet a lot of cops would love to see the drinking age changed. I don't think they really want to be bothered busting college students for alcohol violations. I think they'd rather be doing something constructive, and also something at which they have a chance of making a difference.

[swissmiss04]

I actually did a 10 minute persuasive in my speech class in the fall that focused on why the drinking age should be 19. Gutsy move in a Southern state school known for being conservative. I researched and researched and even polled my classmates as to their habits (anonymously, of course) so I could be as well informed as possible. The statistics given by some of the previous posts have been about 50% "good" and 50% "bad". Ok, for starters...yes, people who start drinking when they're in their early adolescent years do tend to have a higher rate of alcoholism than do people who wait. And there is another statistic running around saying that people who don't drink at all until they are of legal age have a smaller probability of being an alcoholic later on. I believe that both of those facts are true, if somewhat skewed, for a few reasons. 1...What on earth kind of parents are so negligent of their 11 and 12 year olds that their kids are binge drinking??? 2...How many people can honestly say that they took not a drink until the day they were 21? Not many, but some I'm sure, and they likely live in areas where alcohol isn't as prevalent. 3...There really are no statistics to determine the probability of people who start drinking between the ages of 15-20, which is presumably when most underage people start. So why is this left out? Because for the most part people who start in this age bracket tend to sow their wild oats quickly and then settle into more responsible drinking patterns. Underage drinking does and will happen. We tried Prohibition for all people back in the 20's. And it didn't work. Crime rates were obscene due to the black market nature of alcohol in this time. The 21 MLPA (min. legal purchase age) is another form of Prohibition that also does not work. If parents teach their children healthy attitudes toward alcohol, a lot of grief can be spared. But sometimes that doesn't happen. However, I don't believe it should be up to our justice system to legislate morality or take the place of the parents. People of legal drinking age should take care to demonstrate responsible habits to underage people. And no one regardless of age should ever tell anyone that being drunk is cool.