Hazing in the band room - Page 2

Kevin · #16 06-22-2002, 01:43 PM

Probation is not action!

If it were Sigma Nu at Florida State and the same thing happened they might as well call the realator to sell their house!

(Our IHQ takes it pretty seriously also)

I'm just saying where with TWO incedents they get probation. We have zero tolerance.

SilverTurtle · #17 06-22-2002, 02:39 PM

I don't know hazing laws in every state or policies at every school, but in Ohio, just because you CONSENT to something does NOT mean it's not hazing. (The argument is that you may be consenting because you're afraid of something else, etc.)
The initial article made it sound like there were several people naked in those photos, but subsequent posts only mentioned one guy. If it was one guy and his one friend played a joke (however inappropriate) then I don't think it is hazing. It's a (potentially dangerous) practical joke. If there were several people involved from the same organization, then it probably IS hazing.
I have heard of several incidents, at several chapters, where chapters were given probation before charters are pulled. I think it depends on the severity of the actions. For example, having a pary where a few underage brothers/pledges/new members are drinking isn't the same level as getting someone naked and dropping them off somewhere. The first scenario, assuming it was the first time it happened, would probably warrant probation, where any other violations would lead to losing your charter. The second scenario would call for pulling a charter right away. I hope that made sense.
I have mixed feelings on disciplining the band/team vs. GLOs because there are often adults (e.g. band directors, coaches) present for the hazing. I had a friend who was in the marching band at Ohio State, and he said it was EXACTLY like being in a (steretypical) fraternity. Some of the things he listed ARE hazing, and the band director(s) HAD to be present for them. I think the first step would be disciplinging the director/coach and then the band/team. How many fraternities or sororities would haze in front of their advisors/chapter consultants/etc.?!?!?
I'm a band geek also. We do throw better parties

SuperSister · #18 06-26-2002, 06:47 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AngelPhiSig
#2- were sick of the "this one time, at band camp" thing. Its still kinda funny when WE do it, but c'mon now.

#3- Some of the people I know that drink the most, are NOT greek- they are in the band.
[/QUOTE

Not only is that old now, but it's painful even to think about! Ewwwwww!

Awww, you're making me homesick! Although because many members are not only in the music department, they have to deal more closely with the director I think they have more of a reason to drink

Hazing is a universal problem and needs to be dealt with wherever it is found, not just with one type of organization however because bands do not have national organizations it may be a bit more difficult to implement disciplinary measures especially when a school might happen to be proud of their band (not where i go though!). Not that this is right, just the way it is.

Emily

madmax · #19 06-28-2002, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SilverTurtle
made sense.

I have mixed feelings on disciplining the band/team vs. GLOs because there are often adults (e.g. band directors, coaches) present for the hazing. I had a friend who was in the marching band at Ohio State, and he said it was EXACTLY like being in a (steretypical) fraternity. Some of the things he listed ARE hazing, and the band director(s) HAD to be present for them. I think the first step would be disciplinging the director/coach and then the band/team. How many fraternities or sororities would haze in front of their advisors/chapter consultants/etc.?!?!?

I'm a band geek also. We do throw better parties

Why would you have mixed feeling about disciplining the band just because the band director was present? I think they should get the same punishment that a fraternity would get for a similar violation and the band director should also get the same punishment.

Kevin · #20 06-28-2002, 04:51 PM

If they're "adults" then why are they allowing such childish behavior in their presences? I think they should be heald MORE accountable than the students that participate. Fire them.

ladybug1116 · #21 06-28-2002, 05:36 PM

What professor/band director would allow that to happen in their presence? Surely they know that they would be fired if that was the circumstance. I don't even see how that could be an issue

SilverTurtle · #22 06-29-2002, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
If they're "adults" then why are they allowing such childish behavior in their presences? I think they should be heald MORE accountable than the students that participate. Fire them.

I know. That was my exact point. So, madmax & everyone, if their LEADERS are telling them it's okay, then I think the leaders need to answer to the school first. I think that by replacing the leaders (coach, director, etc.) you can eradicate a lot of the problems. As long as you get someone in there who doesn't support hazing.

How many fraternities have their leaders (nationals) telling them it's okay to haze? None that I know of. They are educated repeatedly against it. Other organizations rarely are.

Anyway, I'm not saying that the band/team/etc. shouldn't be punished in some way. But I do think it MAY warrant different punishment than GLOs.

madmax · #23 07-06-2002, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SilverTurtle

I know. That was my exact point. So, madmax & everyone, if their LEADERS are telling them it's okay, then I think the leaders need to answer to the school first. I think that by replacing the leaders (coach, director, etc.) you can eradicate a lot of the problems. As long as you get someone in there who doesn't support hazing.

How many fraternities have their leaders (nationals) telling them it's okay to haze? None that I know of. They are educated repeatedly against it. Other organizations rarely are.

Anyway, I'm not saying that the band/team/etc. shouldn't be punished in some way. But I do think it MAY warrant different punishment than GLOs.

1. the initial post said nothing about the band director being present.

2. even if your friend at Ohio state was hazed in front of the band director that doesn't mean that the band director took part or told the band that it was ok to haze.

3. we are not talking about 8 year old kids, we are talking about 18-23 year old adults that know hazing is illegal.

I think you are just trying to defend the band because you are in the band.

Your excuse about leaders telling the band it is ok to haze doesnt hold water in my book. I could say the same thing aobut alumni telling a fraternity to haze, but that doesn't make it right.

If a band hazes then they should get the same punishment as a fraternity that hazes..

dzsaigirl · #24 07-06-2002, 01:36 PM

In the state of TX, CONSENT has NOTHING to do with determining hazing. Whether you consent or not, the nature of the action is the thing that defines it as hazing.

Also, I have a degree in Music Ed and I was in band for 11 years. Band is the only organization that ever hazed me, and it was blatant, reckless hazing. I will openly say that it was while I was at SMU, not UH.

Also, I have NEVER been hazed in my greek organizations.

Once I get a job, (just graduated), if it is directing a band, I will not allow hazing and anyone caught doing it will both be kicked out of band for the duration of their stay at that school and I will also recommend that they be suspended...just my opinion.

texas*princess · #25 07-31-2002, 11:14 PM

Hmmm that sounds familiar... my old high school band drummers would haze new drummers in the "drum room"

SilverTurtle · #26 08-03-2002, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by madmax

2. even if your friend at Ohio state was hazed in front of the band director that doesn't mean that the band director took part or told the band that it was ok to haze.

If the band director(s) saw it and didn't do anything to stop it, then they DID take part in it. At least that's the law in my state. And it fits into most definitions I've read elsewhere.

3. we are not talking about 8 year old kids, we are talking about 18-23 year old adults that know hazing is illegal.

I never said that the participants (students) shouldn't be punished. Kick them out of the band, suspend, them, etc. But that doesn't mean you need to eliminate the program, only the participants. Particularly at schools where the band serves as an educational vehicle for music majors.

I think you are just trying to defend the band because you are in the band.

I'm not in the band. I was in band in HIGH SCHOOL, and there was no hazing. Well, the seniors were allowed to get on the buses for away games first. Maybe we'd better get rid of that band program right now.

Your excuse about leaders telling the band it is ok to haze doesnt hold water in my book. I could say the same thing aobut alumni telling a fraternity to haze, but that doesn't make it right.

If a band hazes then they should get the same punishment as a fraternity that hazes..

I never said it was an excuse.. in fact, I said quote: "I think the first step would be disciplinging the director/coach and then the band/team." I was merely stating that there are different circumstances as they are 2 completely different types of organizations.

IvySpice · #27 08-03-2002, 03:13 PM

On may campus some of the freakiest hazing happens in one of the a cappella groups.

Ivy

PandaOnProzac · #28 08-26-2002, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by texas*princess
Hmmm that sounds familiar... my old high school band drummers would haze new drummers in the "drum room"

Yeah when I was in high school there was hazing going on in my old HS band. The more hardcore and competitive groups do it more than the average HS band.

Senusret I · #29 08-26-2002, 08:21 AM

Those crazy a cappella groups. . .

Quote:

Originally posted by IvySpice
On may campus some of the freakiest hazing happens in one of the a cappella groups.

Ivy

hoosier · #30 10-12-2002, 02:09 PM

Corps members charged in hazing incident

By C.E. Walters
October 10, 2002
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Twenty students from the Corps of Cadets A-Battery involved in a hazing incident earlier this year were charged and held accountable for their actions this fall following a University Police Department (UPD) investigation, officials said.

Photos found in June on the computer server of Texas A&M's yearbook, the Aggieland, depicted a man being stripped of his clothes, blindfolded and bound at the wrists, ankles and knees with duct tape. UPD Director Bob Wiatt later confirmed that the men involved in the incident were members of A-Battery, part of the Fightin' Texas Aggie Band.

Wiatt said this summer the photos appeared to be hazing, but did not constitute criminal hazing, in which a person is forced to participate or is otherwise injured in the activities.

Officials would not say what form the cadets' punishment took, nor identify the students who received it, saying the information is protected under the Family Education Rights and Principals Act, which keeps certain student information confidential.

Though the photos were found in June, it is still not clear when the incident took place.

Collins said the cadets, comprising most of the unit, were charged with conduct unbecoming a cadet. While no criminal charges were pursued by the Brazos County District Attorney's Office, the University brought the cadets before joint Department of Student Life and Corps hearings.

After a series of one-on-one hearings, 20 cadets were issued University sanctions, which can range from expulsion to differed suspension to a warning, said Assistant Director of Student Life Mike Collins.

Collins said Corps disciplinary cases are investigated by both the Corps and the University.

Hearing officers examined the UPD's reports to determine if there was a violation and then issued charge letters, Collins said. Hearings were held between the student, an official from Student Life, a Corps representative and an optional adviser of the student's choice.

Corps representatives were present at every hearing, said Richard Mallahan, Corps assistant commandant.