AAs: The Pledge of Allegiance - Page 2

NinjaPoodle · #16 06-12-2002, 09:00 PM

1. Do you recite the pledge?

NO

2. Do you place your hand over your heart?

NO

3. Do you stand while it is being recited?

NO

Quote:

Originally posted by Bamboozled
The reason I don't say it is not because I'm not content with the lifestyle in which the US has afforded me. I'm very aware that I lead a privileged life. However, I don't say the words because I simply don't believe in their validity. ....With liberty and justice for all?!? Oh, the hypocricy! Man, those words weren't written with me in mind and I think that today, in 2002, they still don't apply.

I feel the same. Anyway, I don't recite things I don't believe in.

neicy81 · #17 06-12-2002, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bamboozled
The reason I don't say it is not because I'm not content with the lifestyle in which the US has afforded me. I'm very aware that I lead a privileged life. However, I don't say the words because I simply don't believe in their validity. ....With liberty and justice for all?!? Oh, the hypocricy! Man, those words weren't written with me in mind and I think that today, in 2002, they still don't apply.

I agree completely.I have gotten into many "discussions" with some people over what it means and they always give me that "black people built this country so they have you in mind" speech.I still beg to differ.

stillwater15 · #18 06-12-2002, 11:11 PM

1. Do you recite the pledge?
2. Do you place your hand over your heart?
3. Do you stand while it is being recited?

1. to be honest, i don't even know the pledge of allegiance. over the years, i've forgotten it.

2. nope

3. the last time i stood was probably in elementary school. people look, but no one says anything to me.

these answers also apply to the star-spangled banner.

lovelyivy84 · #19 06-12-2002, 11:25 PM

No, the pledge of allegiance was not written with us in mind. True.

BUT the pledge of allegiance sets forth a guideline as to what Americans are supposed to believe in. Even when Americans don't live up to those standards, in this country there is a belief that those things....liberty and justice for all.... really ARE for all, and that this is an ideal worth fighting for. It reflects the VERY BEST of us, and of the American spirit. When those words were not meant for us, they were a spur for those who believed in our humanity and our rights, who took those words to heart and fought for us, both black and white. That was what America was SUPPOSED to be, and what they wanted to make it.

Americans might not always uphold those traditions, but this country is one of very few in this world where people still think that that is how things SHOULD be. When your civil rights are trampled here, you can do something about it, you can fight those systems, even when you don't win, and that MEANS SOMETHING. People are working for things to be that way every day. Isn't that what we do in living our lives? Work for things to get better?

Sororities and fraternities were not for us at one point either, but we took them and what they MEANT to heart, and we call ourselves Black Greeks today. Same way I will call myself a Black American, and recite the pledge.

BLUTANG · #20 06-13-2002, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stillwater15
these answers also apply to the star-spangled banner.

awww, Stillwater! I LOVE listening to and/or performing the SSB. I think it is one of the most beautiful pieces ever written. But, that may just be the musician in me.

Riley · #21 06-13-2002, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKA2D '91

DOUBLE Ditto!

I've been outside of this country, not only Mexico on more than one occasion and I still do NOT say it. IMO, it does not say that I want to live any OTHER place.

It's just a choice.

I feel the same way. I have been out of the country to see how "others" live and I do appreciate living here ( oh but do I !) But that last line gets me.

thesweetestone · #22 06-13-2002, 09:53 AM

1. Do you recite the pledge? Yes
2. Do you place your hand over your heart? Yes
3. Do you stand while it is being recited? Yes

I don't find anything offensive about it.

neicy81 · #23 06-13-2002, 12:48 PM

I just wanted to add to what I originally said.......

A lot of people mentioned that America is the best country to live due to our standards of living.Materialism aside I doubt there is NO better country than America.

What about things like.....
racism
taxes
police brutality, etc..

There are more than a FEW countries where this doesn't exist.

lovelyivy84 · #24 06-13-2002, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by neicy81
I just wanted to add to what I originally said.......

A lot of people mentioned that America is the best country to live due to our standards of living.Materialism aside I doubt there is NO better country than America.

What about things like.....
racism
taxes
police brutality, etc..

There are more than a FEW countries where this doesn't exist.

Wait, there's a country that has no racism?

Please tell me where that exists, because I seem to remember a couple of race riots in England last year, and anyone who has ever been to France, knows that that 'liberal' society has some great big race problems- mostly with Middle Eastern peoples, but race problems and police brutality all the same.

And taxes are everywhere, lol.

techie_girl_44 · #25 06-13-2002, 02:56 PM

Yes, yes, and yes.

I am an "Air Force brat" and I was raised to respect our country, our flag, and everything our flag stands for.

My little breakdown of the Pledge of Allegiance:

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, --- Right, I do pledge allegiance to my country so I will pledge allegiance to the flag that symbolizes it.

one Nation under God, --- This is about the only thing that bugs me in the Pledge of Allegiance because our Government sure doesn't act like it is under God...

indivisible, --- We better be indivisible otherwise we will lose the freedom we have if another group/country divides and conquers us.

with liberty and justice for all. --- Was this line written with me in mind? Probably not...but as a citizen of the U.S. I am entitled to both liberty and justice. Granted the liberties are regulated and the justice isn't perfect but I will take that over no liberty and no justice system any day.

neicy81 · #26 06-13-2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lovelyivy84

.

And taxes are everywhere, lol.

Actually, lovelyivy taxes aren't everywhere.

lovelyivy84 · #27 06-13-2002, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by neicy81

Actually, lovelyivy taxes aren't everywhere.

Fine.

Any country with an established bureacratic system has a system of taxation.

Unless you are talking communism/socialism which are different economic models, and not particularly succesful in terms of gaining capital.

And it does little to change my initial argument, there is no country in the world that affords black people the kinds of opportunities available here. If you believe that false then please present evidence.

librasoul22 · #28 06-13-2002, 11:14 PM

Hmm..I think this thread shows evidence of the epidemic in America. We are constantly being told how good we have it, how good it is compared to anywhere else. Well do not tell me how good we HAVE it, I want to think about how good it COULD BE/SHOULD BE. We really lose sight of that... although MUCH progress has been made, there is still much progress TO BE made, and I am one of the one's who will not pledge anything to a country that tries to stifle that progress at every turn. I do acknowledge that IN COMPARISON, we do have it better than most. That is true enough. But in my eyes, what we do have is not good enough. And that is largely due to the severe oppression that the United States Government levels at "minorities" at every turn. So I will not recite the pledge of allegiance until I feel that the words actually ring true, and are not just some naive pipe dream.

Ideal08 · #29 06-14-2002, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lovelyivy84
Unless you are talking communism/socialism which are different economic models, and not particularly succesful in terms of gaining capital.

Which is not all bad. I wonder if most of our problems stem from being a capitalistic society. Sometimes liberty and justice work better for people with more capital.

I agree with Librasoul. Just cuz we have it better doesn't mean we accept what we have just because it could be worse. And I don't think anyone is debating the quality of life that we have in America. I am grateful that I have the CHOICE to not say the pledge. I think the issue comes into what you believe, and I don't believe in the Pledge. Do I have faith that it could one day ring true? Sure. But there are so many mistruths up in EVERYTHING, and the pledge is just one of them. And the military... nevermind... I don't even feel like getting into this today.

lovelyivy84 · #30 06-14-2002, 12:46 PM

Socialism is one economic model I personally like, communism is great in theory, but doesn't work in practice. It has never worked in practice, because people are people, and corrupt.

I see what you guys are saying about the comparison, but I think that part of our duty as citizens is to make it better, like generations of African-Americans have done in this country. Generations of black people fought and died to make sure that we were able to say that we are CITIZENS of the United States, and it's laws apply to us too. I see saying the pledge as honoring their sacrifices, and committing myself to a similar ideal.

Because the only reason they were able to acheive preogress is because America is a country that believes that those ideals SHOULD be true. Liberty and justice are an ideal this country considers worth fighting for, and that is why we are where we are.

Look, I understand if you don't recite the pledge, I just don't see things the same way, simple as that.