Let's get spiritual.. - Page 2

SigmaChiCard · #16 06-10-2002, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by swissmiss04
Well SigmaChiCard, you'd be right except Muslims in no way believe Muhammed or Jesus to be the son of God or even an incarnation of God. To call Muhammed a "repackaged Jesus" is insensitive and shows your ignorance.

Now Now Now MissSwiss.

This is not a thread for arguing pointlessly, but to express religious conviction. I'm elated that your learning about Islam but don't be so damn defensive. Islam in my opinion is a subsect of a broader belief most closely associated with Christianity filled with all the same archetypes and characters....Now the sole infinitesimal point you are poorly trying to use for the sake of your entire argument is that Muslims don't see Muhammed as the Son of Allah. Fine. I never said or have thought otherwise. The point, my dear MissSwiss, is that if you were to take 10 seconds out of your hateful reply time to think about a comparison and contrast of the two you would find innumerable similarites. Hey, you're right....one is seen as the Son of God and the other isn't...but dear, does that really discredit all other similarities? Study....I encourage you whole-heartedly....but empty your cup before trying to fill it....study with an open mind.......

.....Or hey, just call everything that doesn't agree with your thoughts 'ignorant.'

(please don't make this an argument board, though I'm sure you'll have fun in reply to my post)

SigmaChiCard · #17 06-10-2002, 03:22 PM

I guess on the deepest plane I'm agnostic in the most literal sense. Many confuse Agnosticism with discern...it's not. I believe in God, but it's pointless to ponder the afterlife, or his being because there is no humanly answer. All search isn't outward for the God of the world....all search is inward for the God of self and that's why I don't read things for the concepts so much as for the way that the authors approach the contemplation of their God. God is different to everyone, every christian God is different to every Christian...the same goes for every Allah...the same for every Buddah (bad example, but my point is made).....

This is why I have a hard time with organized religions.....can something so powerful be so bounded?

KSig RC · #18 06-10-2002, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaChiCard
Islam in my opinion is a subsect of a broader belief most closely associated with Christianity filled with all the same archetypes and characters....

To put this in, perhaps, a slightly less subjective manner: the "Judeo-Christian" religions (Judaism, Islam, and all sects of Christianity) share innumerable points, theories, codes of conducts, characters, and even texts. They are most definitely related to a common root - in fact, Mohammad and Jesus provide the exact time in which their followers broke from this root.

MissSwiss - I think you took SXCard's point extremely too personally. It's been a while, but I believe that the Koran refers to Christians and Jews as "people of the book", due to common ancestral root beliefs, and allows them a special place in paradise after 500 years of purgatory - if you need any more connection between Islam and Christianity, then certainly we can go for that. I think SXCard has stated similarity in form, custom, and belief between the two (even three) religions, and I don't think that anyone will argue this. Sure, there are implicit differences in belief or custom (otherwise they'd be the same religion), but in general all three are very similar (as they should be - they came from the same common root religion and people).

jonsagara · #19 06-10-2002, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by straightBOS

Well, what do you call the universe?

I call it "the universe." :-P

Quote:

We are controlled more by natural forces, than your interpretation of religion. Religion grew out of a curiosity in and an attempt to understanding the forces under whose control and will power we can never escape from.

Of which natural forces do you speak?

Quote:

Even if you do not believe in "religion", especially organized religion with codes, rites, prayers, etc. you are technically under the influence of religious forces everyday.

Again, which forces are these, and how do you classify them as religious?

Please tell me: what is a religious force? What is a natural force? Are they one and the same? If you will clarify this, then I will better understand your POV.

straightBOS · #20 06-10-2002, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jonsagara

Please tell me: what is a religious force? What is a natural force? Are they one and the same? If you will clarify this, then I will better understand your POV.

Yes. Religion was not created in a vacuum. It is an expression of the natural forces. Morality, reason, etc. are all natural forces, they are what we have used to evolve our various concepts of "religion." It is impossible to separate the two because they are linked.

The sun and understanding its power over our universe was the beginning of the concept of an ominipotent God--w/ or w/o organized worship.

Even being semi-conscious of the fact that the sun will rise tomorrow and the tide will come in, are in fact religious expressions.

(Hey, how's that for geeky.

)

SigmaChiCard · #21 06-11-2002, 12:27 PM

why is it that deep, meaningful threads get dropped quickly while light ones stay up for so long? Does no one have anymore thoughts to share about their religious affiliation? We should all be religious given that most orgs are seemingly based on religious ideals....

LexiKD · #22 06-11-2002, 12:57 PM

Well, I'm Greek Orthodox and I could go on about everything I have learned but all in all I like what I have learned but feel like God, or whoever you would like to call him created us all....we all are here for a reason and cannot figure out why there would be a Hell.....I guess I feel like it should be more about love than separation and hate....

What does kill me is the "Bible Beaters" on the beach that walk up and ask if you are going to Heaven! And then start in about Jesus...and if you have accepted him and if not you will go to Hell...Um, thanks but no thanks!

My question is to all who think you have to accept Jesus and Lord and Savior...what about everyone else...what about tribes and such that have never seen a bible...I mean, they will go to Hell b/c they never had the oppurtunity? I just cannot see that happening.

It's simple but that's my .02!

Eirene_DGP · #23 06-11-2002, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LexiKD

What does kill me is the "Bible Beaters" on the beach that walk up and ask if you are going to Heaven! And then start in about Jesus...and if you have accepted him and if not you will go to Hell...Um, thanks but no thanks!

My question is to all who think you have to accept Jesus and Lord and Savior...what about everyone else...what about tribes and such that have never seen a bible...I mean, they will go to Hell b/c they never had the oppurtunity? I just cannot see that happening.

I am going to have to agree with you. I know "bible Bangers" (that's what we call them down south) have good intentions, but they cannot assume that everyone wants to be a Christian. Secondly, even within the Christian Church, not all denominations have the same ideas of salvation. LexiKD, you mentioned that you are Greek Orthodox so I know you don't have the same idea of salvation as some of the Protestant denominations. The same with Catholicism (my faith), salvation is more of a process in comparison to some of the faiths that you can convert/join over night.

LexiKD · #24 06-11-2002, 04:26 PM

Yes, it isn't an overnight saving...more like a work in prgress!

DeeGeePee · #25 06-12-2002, 04:36 PM

[COLOR=deep pink]Well, this has certainly been interesting to read this thread.

Personally, I am a Christian. One of the main things that I find so...what's the word...discouraging (I guess) about Christianity is the big fuss over denominationalism *sp*. I personally don't have a certain denomination. I'm a Christian. that's it. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. I believe in the teachings of the Bible, whether they "actually" happened as described or at all, is irrelevent to their message and teachings. There is no hell, the book of Revelations outlines what is to occur when Jesus returns to the Earth. Hell is a term people made up. Its non-existant. I believe that a person's soul can be saved when you accept the gift of salvation. From then you have to change your life, which is a lifelong process. THAT doesn't happen overnight. But since NO ONE is perfect, no one will get it exactly right, the point is to try to do it right, and to make amends to God when you slip up. I've sinned a plenty, but I apologize for them and try to move beyond them and try not to do them again.

But the whole thing is to discover for yourself what YOU personally believe in, and to respect others beliefs even if they are different from your own. You don't have to like it or agree with it, but you do have to let people be to find their own path. You can show them yours, but you can't MAKE them believe it. [/COLOR]

Peaches-n-Cream · #26 06-12-2002, 05:45 PM

I'm not sure what the difference is between faith and spirituality. I have faith, and I try to do what is expected of me. I believe in the peaceful co-existence of different people with different religions and ideas. I mostly believe in the Golden Rule and respect and compassion for fellow human beings. Have a great day whatever you believe!

SigmaChiCard · #27 06-12-2002, 09:47 PM

Here's a question....Does going to church prove any point toyou whatsoever? I'm not saying here's no point....many learn fromit as I hope they should.....but the cathli church conflicts with too many of my philosohies and so I leave frustrated and antagonized.

There are many paths to truth...may each man find his route. I wish I had my Kahlil Gibran with me because that is one of te greatest prophets alongside the wods of Socrates according to Plato.....I really need to read Xenophon (sp?) because I hear that he does Socrates less grace than Plato....and s more accurate.

Christians...tell me this.....wwhat do you think of the story of Job......I could send you a very ymbolic short story I oncewrote ina timethat I ws fucked up over the story of Job and I contmplate that isue...i could pm you if your interested n it....i know my spelling is poor now, btmy keys are shitty and i don't care to edit...sorry...'m drunk and unhappy....but i'm so happy that so many people don't believe in the conceptf hell but i wish missswiss would coe back...why would god ever say hety...you fucked up so bad you can never experience my gooodnes...that makes no sense at all...God wouldn't do tat....excuse me if I did capitalixe the G in God erlier...I meant to because I thinkg it sdshoutrd be ...i gotta go

Peaches-n-Cream · #28 06-12-2002, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaChiCard
Here's a question....Does going to church prove any point toyou whatsoever? I'm not saying here's no point....many learn fromit as I hope they should.....but the cathli church conflicts with too many of my philosohies and so I leave frustrated and antagonized.

There are many paths to truth...may each man find his route. I wish I had my Kahlil Gibran with me because that is one of te greatest prophets alongside the wods of Socrates according to Plato.....I really need to read Xenophon (sp?) because I hear that he does Socrates less grace than Plato....and s more accurate.

Christians...tell me this.....wwhat do you think of the story of Job......I could send you a very ymbolic short story I oncewrote ina timethat I ws fucked up over the story of Job and I contmplate that isue...i could pm you if your interested n it....i know my spelling is poor now, btmy keys are shitty and i don't care to edit...sorry...'m drunk and unhappy....but i'm so happy that so many people don't believe in the conceptf hell but i wish missswiss would coe back...why would god ever say hety...you fucked up so bad you can never experience my gooodnes...that makes no sense at all...God wouldn't do tat....excuse me if I did capitalixe the G in God erlier...I meant to because I thinkg it sdshoutrd be ...i gotta go

Drinking and the internet don't mix!

SigmaChiCard · #29 06-13-2002, 06:58 AM

I don't know.....it's kind of fun to read it now.....and as long as i don't make TOO much of an ass of myself

Eclipse · #30 06-15-2002, 02:39 PM

Interesting thread. I am a Christian and as a song that I love says "that means I'm far from perfect, simply redeemed."

I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God--that he breathed life into the words and while allowing an individual's personality and experiences to shine through. I believe that the Bible is 100% true in it's original languages and to have a full, true appreciation of the Word you must understand it in it's original languages.

I believe that God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit are co-equal. I believe that there is one God, in three persons. I really don't understand how this can be fully, but God and given me a peace about it and I believe, as my grandmother used to say, that I will understand it "by and by".

I believe that their is a heaven and a hell. Hell is not, as some people have said, a "punishment" from a good God. It is simply the fulfillment of consequences. To me it's just like if you throw a ball in the air. It will, eventially, come down. That's just the natural order of things. God has given people an option. Admit that you are a sinner and that you cannot do it alone and that you need my help or not. It's your choice. He will do many things to get you to see that, but ultimately it's up to you.

I am probably what some of you would call one of those "Bible Thumpers/Pusher, etc because I evangelize with my church. I also feed the hungry, provide clothes to the homeless and do other "good deeds", but I believe that the most important gift that you can provide to someone is the gift of salvation. If I knew someone was killing themselves with drugs, about to jump off a tall building, etc. I would feel like it was my duty as a person to stop them. Same thing about salvation.

I believe that those who consider Jesus a "good man" or a "good teacher" only have fooled themselves. He said things like "I am the way, the truth and the life. None come to the Father except through me." and "I an my Father are one." If he was not God, these things are an insult to God and would put him in the company of Jim Jones and David Koresh, not a good teacher.

SigmaChiCard, I couldn't really follow your comments about Job (suprise!), but I think it a good example of a couple of things:
1. Being a Christian does not mean you are exempt from pain and suffering.
2. The devil can't do anything that God does not allow him to do.
3. Trusting God means trusting him through the good and the bad times. One of my favorite scriptures to recite when going through trouble is what Job said to the Lord "Yet though He slay me, I will trust Him"

Last point, because this is getting long, someone asked the question about people who haven't had an opportunity to hear about God. I believe we are all born with a God consciousness and that only God can fill it. I think that if someone has truly been on a search for God but did not get an opportunity to hear the Gospel God rewards that. He does, however, expects Christians to "go and make disciples of all nations."